[bright_eyes]

I have a hard time supplementing with any type of multi vitamin (although I am now since I'm pregnant) because I feel that we should be able to get all that we need from the foods that we eat.

My friend goes to see a naturalpath who does not believe this at all, so my friend is on all these natural vitamin supplements and such. She brought up my point to the naturalpath and he said that today it is pretty much impossible to get enough from our food because our food just isn't as nutritious as it used to be, say a hundred years ago, due to the farming practices, and soil depletion, ect.

I've heard this before but have such a hard to believing that I should spend a ton of money on supplements instead of using that same money to buy nutritious food.

What do you think? Do you think it's possible to get all that our bodies need from food or do agree that the state that our food is now in means we just can't get enough from food alone?

 

[sjangi]

I do believe this, that it is really hard to get all the nutrition you need from food, especially if you do not eat organic. Even if you could get most of the nutrition from food, the average american diet has left the body deficient in producing enzymes to digest the foods and absorb the nutrients. So to truly heal the body i personally do think that whole food supplementation is needed.

 

[cristeen]

I think it's important to draw the distinction between food that is grown in conventional ways and transported over long distances, and food that is organically and locally grown. The former is really lacking in nutrition, but I happen to believe in the nutritional value of the latter.

 

[spughy]

It totally depends where your food comes from. If your food comes from farms that use sustainable, organic methods and either have done for some time or the land has never been subjected to conventional farming, then I think that's as nutritious as human bodies have ever expected. If you can supplement with some wild-crafted foods, that's great - they are higher in a lot of vitamins and minerals.

Soil depletion is a real problem, but not everywhere.

 

[hummingmom]

I'd tend to agree with your naturopath. Organic farming does help, but there are also major regional difference in soil minerals due to geographic factors. Every country has areas that are known to have exceptionally good quality soil. For example, Weston A. Price speculated that the wonderful health of the Swiss Loetenschal valley people was partially thanks to the high mineral content of the soil, due to the mineral-rich runoff from the mountain glaciers. If we were to try to replicate their diet with the organic grains and grass-fed dairy that are available in our own areas, I don't think we could count on having the same results.

Soil Forming Factors: About Minerals (NASA soil science education site)

As for what to do about any possible deficiencies, we have a few choices:

1) Move to a mountain valley with mineral-rich glacier water.

2) Get some kind of testing (of the soil, the foods, or ourselves) to figure out what the actual deficiencies might be, and take the appropriate supplements.

3) Eat organ meats, seafood, and sea vegetables (kelp, dulse, etc.) on a regular basis. The organs are concentrated source of minerals, generally much higher than muscle meat. And anything that grows in the ocean is going to be richly supplied with all kinds of minerals, because the ocean is such a vast ecosystem, it doesn't get "depleted" like the soil does.

#3 seems like the most practical approach for most people, and it's definitely the one that Dr. Price recommended. Of course, seaweed was also used as a soil fertilizer by many of the coastal societies he studied.

Regarding option #2, I remember reading a while back about a doctor in New Zealand who's designed a supplement to provide the specific minerals that have been found to be lacking in the NZ soil. This is an interesting idea, and certainly worth trying. Farmers have known for years that there were various local deficiencies, and have come up with targeted supplement regimens for their crops and livestock, but this is the first time I've heard of the same approach being used for people.

And just to open up a whole other can of worms: some soils have *too much* of certain trace minerals, which can be harmful to animals and people who eat the plants that are grown on them. Dr. Francis Pottenger (of "Pottenger's Cats" fame) ran a very successful health clinic in the Los Angeles area, and he imported their lettuce from out of state, because the locally grown kind contained high amounts of a naturally occurring toxic element... I'm thinking it was arsenic? According to him, all those California salad-eaters were poisoning themselves.

ETA: Just came across this article: The Gospel According to Weston A. Price and William A. Albrecht

The author takes Nourishing Traditions to task for neglecting the importance of soil minerals, which Dr. Price and others had originally emphasized. Definitely a valuable read.

He also mentions Steve Solomon, whose Soil and Health library is a wonderful online resource.

 

[mamadelbosque]

Its certainly true up to a certain point that the quality of fruits & veggies & such has gone down sharply over the past several decades, but its not true accross the board. I'm pretty convident that most all of the food I grow and eat that comes from our gardens is just as nutritious as it possibly can be - none of our gardens have had pesticides on them for at least 70+ years (my grandpa bought the property in the 60s and it hadn't been farmed for at least 20+ years even then) now, and how many pesticides & herbicides were really around 70-100 years ago? Every year we add lots and lots of compost & organic fertilizers to the soil, so it just keeps getting better and better.

For an obvious example, compare free-range eggs to ones from the store - I can tell them apart just by looking at them once they're cracked open. Ones from our chickens & others locally have dark orange yolks, and ones from the store have light yellow yolks... and taste totally bland!!

But, yes, if your eating conventional produce shipped from the other side of the world, your problably not going to get all the nutrients you really need. If you start growing your own and eating local as much as you can, I really don't see how you wouldn't be able to get all the nutrients you need. I'm only on pre-natals atm, and normally don't take anything.

 

[tanyalynn]

I think it's very challenging to get sufficient amounts of some nutrients (a lot of things could be fairly easy, but some are harder), but when you add in past times when you weren't eating great, or you had some sort of health issue that meant your absorption wasn't great or a stressful time when your nutritional needs were particularly high (for me pregnancy & nursing fell into that category, plus some stressful life events), then I think most of us fall into the category of chronically depleted and would do best with some supplements. I think people who have either put in a lot of work on their health already, or whose health has been quite good from childhood, would need less supplementation than those of us who have had health struggles and extended times of poor health, but I think supplements have their place.

eta: I think we are fundamentally different than the peoples Price looked at, in that most of us are descended from many generations of undernourished people, and some of us didn't come to good eating until adulthood. And those groups he looked at worked really, really hard to get enough fat-soluble vitamins, and they ate that way since childhood. Add in the toxic load the typical person is dealing with (nevermind people like me who aren't typical) and I think supplements are important.

 

[moneca]

Eating organic, locally grown, nutrient dense foods takes you towards healing and rebuilding your body from years of SAD, but toxic load and digestive issues must be considered. Both can keep the body from absorbing the precious nutrients you are working so hard to get. In today's world I don't believe you can get all the benefits from an excellent diet unless you do some detoxing with gut healing if deemed necessary by your symptomology.

 

[Nourishing Bodies]

This is an on-going debate amongst the students at the Institute for Integrative Nutrition where I am currently enrolled. I have had many discussions about this topic as I do not supplement. I like to believe I get everything I need because of the diet I have chosen. However, most of my classmates supplement. I think to mention is the vegetarian diet. No matter how wise your choices in creating a balanced veggie diet, the only way to get B12 vitamins is through animal products (MEAT). So, if you are choosing a vegetarian, vegan, or greatly reduced meat diet, Vit. B12 needs to be added to your routine. Even after all the debate, I am still choosing to go supplement free (except the cod liver oil taken medicinally each morning). Maybe a good question is to ask your body how it feels. Are you tired? Are you weak? Do you catch germs easily? Do you recover quickly? If you answered yes to any of these, you are probably not getting everything you need out of your current diet. Supplements may be helpful.

 

[rosewater]

I gotta say that I don't think you can get it all from farmed foods, but I do not believe in synthetic supplements either. I believe in weeds. Drinking infusions and eating them daily. Running tractors over the earth kills beneficial organisms that are needed to bring nutrients into plants, so organic farms, local or not, that use tractors, have food that is not at optimal nutrition. Weeds on the other hand (dandelion, lamb's quarters, nettle, etc) are really good at getting nutrients--that's what makes them weeds! I recommend Susun Weed if you are more interested in this idea.

I also believe in CLO and organ meats raw milk products pastured animals etc. like everyone else here. One of the reasons they make for more nutritious foods, is that they are eating their weeds on the pasture!

 

[sarah70]

Since you asked I think that naturalpath Dr is just a pill pusher with another name.......
This fear we live with that we can't get enough Vit/Min through our food is the same as western Dr's telling us to take antibiotics for a virus

You can over due you can under due and during some points in our life it just makes since to suppelment if we tend to be a little lazy

"It seems that some consideration should be given to the cause of our mounting physical
disabilities, but instead of going to the root of our troubles -- wrong habits of eating and
drinking -- we rush to the medicine shelf and smother our uncomfortable and distressing
symptoms under an avalanche of pills, potions and palliatives." Brother Roloff

"An apple a day keeps the doctor away." Your mother...

:

 

[TzippityDoulah]

ideally we SHOULD be able to get whatever we need from food. but unless you raise all your own meat (or buy super locally), raise your own veggies and fruits, and grind your own grain... well you're just not going to get everything you need most likely.

think how long even "fresh" fruits and veggeis sit on shelves. even organic is transported in a truck and takes a while to get to your store, much less to your table. it's loosing nutrients every moment since it's been picked. it's actually loosing a LOT of nutrients.

and meat? well... that is a whole other issue! unless you buy organic from a farm that is NO WHERE nearby a conventional farm (good luck finding that!)

so yeah I supplement whenever i can't get enough from my foods. I always try foods first b/c that is the very best way - especially many supplement form aren't easily absorbed by the body.

 

[TzippityDoulah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosewater I gotta say that I don't think you can get it all from farmed foods, but I do not believe in synthetic supplements either. I believe in weeds. Drinking infusions and eating them daily. Running tractors over the earth kills beneficial organisms that are needed to bring nutrients into plants, so organic farms, local or not, that use tractors, have food that is not at optimal nutrition. Weeds on the other hand (dandelion, lamb's quarters, nettle, etc) are really good at getting nutrients--that's what makes them weeds! I recommend Susun Weed if you are more interested in this idea. I also believe in CLO and organ meats raw milk products pastured animals etc. like everyone else here. One of the reasons they make for more nutritious foods, is that they are eating their weeds on the pasture!

very good thoughts!!