[loving-my-babies]

I was wondering this today. I think I need to work on this, because I run into an awful lot of ff'ing mamas, and when I see that dreaded formula bottle and the mother makes a comment like "oh my, you are BREASTFEEDING? wow, that's brave, don't you fear your breasts will sag?" this totally changes my image of her. I don't know if it's right or wrong. But it just is. I know some people say breastfeeding doesn't necessarily make you a good mother, just as ff'ing doesn't make you a bad one, but in the case of a woman who has no obstacles, no reasons to not bf, all the support in the world, is educated, would you judge her? would you think she's a bad mom?

 

[Evergreen]

I would not think she was a bad mother but I would think that she made a bad parenting decision. I don't know your particular woman's story, but hypothetically, I think most cases of chosing not to breastfeed are done for the wrong reasons.

The two women I know in real life who never bfed and both said, "I know it's better but-" I think are somewhat bad mothers, although for a plethora of reasons that I won't go into here.

 

[Icequeen_in_ak]

Here's my take (and I consider myself pretty darn judgemental about certain things)

I think anytime a mother chooses to give her child substandard things because the superior might affect her... then yeah.... I think she's pretty selfish and not necessarily the best candidate for mother of the year.

I don't know how many times I've said this lately, but I just don't understand why society today tells everyone that children should have no impact on your life... and if they do, you train them not to. It's sick

Okay, I got a bit OT. Back to the original question. No, I don't think every mother that chooses to formula feed is a bad mother.... I just don't think she gave the necessary effort that she should have (again... I'm speaking of strictly CHOOSING moms, not those who've lost the bfing battle) or she just didn't have the proper information available.

 

[mountain]

If a mother made that sagging breast comment to me....

I would try not to think 'bad' as it is judgemental.

Vain? Um, yes.
Ridiculous? Mmm hmm.
Insecure? Oh, yes.
Immature? Hell, yeah.

A woman who puts the shape of her breasts before the health of her child is making a stupid stupid decision & I wouldn't want to be around for her to say anything else dumb to me. I'd probably have to call her all of the above before I left, too. I'd feel real bad that her kid would have to grow up with a superficial idea of life.

 

[loving-my-babies]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain Vain? Um, yes. Ridiculous? Mmm hmm. Insecure? Oh, yes. Immature? Hell, yeah.

Thank You, I am glad that I'm not the only one

 

[snugglemama]

I have struggled with this lately, too. But I recently realized something. Seems off-topic but bear with me.

When I was pregnant, I was considering cloth diapering. Mom said "why would you do that?!" dh said "that's crazy, you won't be able to handle all the extra work!" I didn't know anyone personally who cloth diapered. I had no idea how to get started, or what to do. I looked online, read a lot about it but was just overwhelmed and had no support. So even though I knew cloth diapering was the best choice, I did not do it.

Fast forward to now, my pregnant sister is considering it. I am supportive, but cannot offer any help or advice. She is deciding it will be too overwhelming. Then she learns that a neighbor on her street cd's several children. Sis goes over, sees her "system" asks a bunch of questions, and has now committed to doing it.

I realized how much my cd decision probably mirrors a lot of pregnant mom's breastfeeding decision. With no support, not knowing anyone who bf's, not ever seeing anyone you know personally bf, it might be a hard thing to do. With the stress of becoming a parent for the first time a mama might feel too overwhelmed to even try. So I try to remember this when I meet a ff mom. However, the sagging boob excuse has got to be the worst one! I don't think I could have much patience or compassion for that mama! I guess I would have to chalk it up to her being uninformed, and not willing to do one iota of research.

If there was an LLL version for cloth diapering, I probably would have done it! Maybe it could be called the Nappy Network!

 

[RubyV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain If a mother made that sagging breast comment to me.... I would try not to think 'bad' as it is judgemental. Vain? Um, yes. Ridiculous? Mmm hmm. Insecure? Oh, yes. Immature? Hell, yeah. A woman who puts the shape of her breasts before the health of her child is making a stupid stupid decision & I wouldn't want to be around for her to say anything else dumb to me. I'd probably have to call her all of the above before I left, too. I'd feel real bad that her kid would have to grow up with a superficial idea of life.

I"d blame our society that only sees value in women as sexual beings, and drives home unrealistic unhealthy ideas of beauty.

Really, while I think it sucks, I'll try to be gentle to the woman. How unsure of her self must she be that she's so concerned about possibly having less than desireable breasts.

 

[~Megan~]

I don't think she is a bad mother but generally assume she made a bad choice.

I try to imagine that she at least tried to get her child breastmilk like many of the moms here did but it didn't work out. That's easier to understand than some of the women I know who understand the importance of nursing but choose not in spite of that.

 

[Aura_Kitten]

i am getting so sick of how judgemental some bf'ing mamas are.

it's society's fault for making women feel inadequate.

it's big corporations' fault for making formula feeding seem more accessible, easier, and more "normal" than breastfeeding.

it's the media's fault for propagating the idea that bottlefeeding is the Thing To Do.

it's the AAP's fault for allowing their pro-bf'ing campaign to be watered down.

it's the government's fault for forcing working mamas out of the home very soon after giving birth.

the decision is the mother's to make, and if she is influenced by all of the above, and makes a different ~ a more socially acceptable ~ choice than me, how can i judge her for that?

and how would my judgement help anyone?

someone can be completely AP and still ff. it's not like all mamas who ff are propping bottles up to their babies and leaving them alone in a crib in some other room while they go party.

oh, and one more thing: anyone who chooses to formula feed has never witnessed the awe-inspiring healing powers of colustrum + breastmilk! (being TOLD and actually SEEING it are two completely different things!)

 

[nicandboys]

When I see someone buying formula at the store, I don't think that she' s a bad mom. I think that she's uneducated, because how can you be fully educated on the benefits of breastfeeding and then still choose to formula feed? I think women that *choose* formula feeding honestly think it's the same as giving their baby breastmilk.

As the previous poster said, a lot of why a woman may see formula as the same is because of corporations who want to make money (that's why I get so ticked about things like formula samples), and because there is not enough education and support for breastfeeding it in this country. It makes me sad, because the babies are the ones who end up being gypped.

That said, breastfeeding is a good example of why people, and especially parents, have to question things and not just accept things. We may find that what we believed to be good enough or the norm really aren't best, I sure did on so many issues that I never thought twice about before.

 

[*Erin*]

omg yes, klothos, everything you just said. and i'm so sick of the judgement too. i mean, why even have this thread, there's a hundred more about how crappy ff mamas are, right? i'm so sick of it...

when i see a mama ffing, i think of several things, usually in this order...
aww, poor biscuit doesnt get mi mi s...
awww, poor mama doesnt get to feel how great it is to nurse...and how easy it is once you get the hang of it..
she prob. had no help/maybe even discouragement getting started..
didnt know HOW DIFFERENT breastmilk/bfing are from ffing..
maybe she tried to bf, but her baby was fussy, she was tired, and her ped and the hospital pushed free samples at her, including little jars that come ready to serve, including screw on nipples, so she could have it handy in a moment of weakness. and she used it, and the whole thing snowballed from there.
thats not all the mamas fault. and you know something???

I HATE TO HEAR THE PHRASE "BAD MOTHER".

really. seriously. can we not use something a LITTLE less preachy and finger pointy and judgemental???

 

[Aura_Kitten]

Quote:

I HATE TO HEAR THE PHRASE "BAD MOTHER".

ME TOO.

to me, a "bad mother" is one who routinely + unpredictably hits her kids, screams at them constantly, feeds them nothing but bad food, never makes an effort to talk with them or spend time with them or listen to what they have to say, is never home...............

 

[*Erin*]

mmmmmmhmmmmm...
and even then, i feel a bit of compassion for her, and for what she must have been put thru to be such a hateful person, even though i hate her for hurting her children. being a mama is the most challenging (and rewarding, imo) thing in the world. not all women are cut out for it...

 

[famousmockngbrd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snugglemama I have struggled with this lately, too. But I recently realized something. Seems off-topic but bear with me. When I was pregnant, I was considering cloth diapering. Mom said "why would you do that?!" dh said "that's crazy, you won't be able to handle all the extra work!" I didn't know anyone personally who cloth diapered. I had no idea how to get started, or what to do. I looked online, read a lot about it but was just overwhelmed and had no support. So even though I knew cloth diapering was the best choice, I did not do it. Fast forward to now, my pregnant sister is considering it. I am supportive, but cannot offer any help or advice. She is deciding it will be too overwhelming. Then she learns that a neighbor on her street cd's several children. Sis goes over, sees her "system" asks a bunch of questions, and has now committed to doing it. I realized how much my cd decision probably mirrors a lot of pregnant mom's breastfeeding decision. With no support, not knowing anyone who bf's, not ever seeing anyone you know personally bf, it might be a hard thing to do. With the stress of becoming a parent for the first time a mama might feel too overwhelmed to even try. So I try to remember this when I meet a ff mom. However, the sagging boob excuse has got to be the worst one! I don't think I could have much patience or compassion for that mama! I guess I would have to chalk it up to her being uninformed, and not willing to do one iota of research. If there was an LLL version for cloth diapering, I probably would have done it! Maybe it could be called the Nappy Network!

I don't often quote entire posts but this one bears repeating.

 

[Lucysmama]

Bad mother?!?! Uhhhh, no.

Mothering is not just about how you feed your child.

I am also so sick of how judgemental mamas are to each other. Until you've walked a mile....

 

[rareimer]

i definitely don't think they're bad mothers...i think they made a bad choice. (i am talking about ones who CHOSE here, not those who tried but had problems that couldn't be overcome.

) mostly, i just feel sorry for them and their babies that they won't get to reap the benefits of a loving nursing relationship, not to mention all the health benefits as well. whatever the reason for FF'ing, i just feel sorry for them, for all that they will miss out on.

 

[wednesday]

I think there are way worse things than ff-ing. A lot of women buy into the mainstream belief that formula contains all the same things as breastmilk, and if they know about antibodies they assume that vaccines and shopping cart seat covers and so forth will protect their babies from germs anyway. I don't think most ff-by-choice moms are standing in the formula aisle thinking to themselves, "I know this product is inferior but that's my choice!"

It takes a pretty independent character to go against what everyone else you know is doing. I've always been a weirdo so it's easy for me to just keep doing what I believe is best, but for people who are used to fitting in, the lifestyle aspect of breastfeeding (NIP, never leaving the baby) can be hard and the benefits not necessarily obvious.

 

[chellemarie]

I'd like to see the passion of a few of our lactivists used in a different way than I've seen here lately. Instead of yet another thread about how much you disrespect and dislike mothers who feed their children formula, how about a thread on what we can do in a positive way to make changes. How to be seen and heard and advocate without being judgmental and arrogant.

Please, let's focus our energy on making change instead of splitting mothers into two camps. "Moms We Like" and "Moms We Don't Like"

 

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I guess I might be tempted to judge a woman with no obstacles, support and education to BF that had chosen to FF but are they really that common? Actually, these women are talked about all the time on MDC but I doubt that a single one exists in the world. They are like a MDC legend - it's them and the Perfectly AP Mother of all Mothers. LOL! These people are fictional and I don't fully understand their purpose but I don't think it's an indication of anything positive. Why do we need them?

I don't think it's always possible to even know all the influences that go into FFing let alone be able to articulate that to an acquaintance. So I find it funny that we're always picking these type of comments and interactions apart. The way I see it, if we have time to think and talk about these things, we have time to go deeper.

Should we not think more about this woman, what she said and why she said it? Is that not a better thing to do with the energy we're expending on her?

About judgment, I usually pass judgment when there is something wrong with me. I see it as a personal weakness. I do judge but I see it as a problem, something that needs to be worked on. I don't justify it by what other people do. So, I would also like to see this attitude change.

 

[bec]

And who is going to decide if it was a good choice to feed formula? You? Are you qualified to go make that judgement on everybody who uses formula? Then, what? Put a big patch on their shirt saying "bad mother"?

Or will you just assume that everyone with a bottle is a bad mother, regardless of how they are actually treating their child? And what about an older child? How will you know? Or maybe you'll just assume again?

I think I've proven my commitment to breastfeeding, but there is so much more to parenting than feeding.

Just as an example, one of the kindest, attached and most creative mother's I know chose to ff for a pretty silly reason (imo). And one of the mother's I have cut off contact with because she spanked her child every time we were over, and would lie to her to get her to do things (unplugging the tv and saying it broke and only daddy could fix it) breastfed for 17 months.

So get off your high horse, already.

Bec