Mothering Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why or why not?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
187 Posts
No, because I believe the risks outweigh the benefits. I read alot of the threads here and several books on vaccinations and feel I've come to a well researched conclusion.<br><br>
Are you beginning your research now? Have you perused the old threads in this forum? Many people have answered your question in old threads, so don't feel bad if they don't repeat themselves here, just use the search button for particular issues or just start reading.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
....I saw from one of your other posts that you have a three month old. Congratz, you haven't waited until the government is asking for your vax documentation to get into school to get started on your educational journey.<br><br>
I've done alot of reading online and offline in the past 2 + years and have never read anything, anywhere, anytime as good as:<br><br>
Jamie Murphy's "What Every Parent Should Know About Childhood Immunization"<br><br>
It doesn't begin ant-vax, it begins Pro- Human Body, giving a primer on the power of what we have evolved into.<br><br>
Also, you might want to do a search for the "convince me to skip MMR" thread and read about my son's (at 18 months) beautiful acquisition of Measles Immunity.<br><br>
With breastmilk, Vit.C, Vit. A, and Goodpapa's Probiotic Yogurt, he sailed right through, with almost no rash-- it was very light, confined to his chest and back and was gone in a day and a half.<br><br>
BTW, are you breastfeeding?<br><br><br>
Again Welcome,<br><br>
Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,410 Posts
I did vaccinate my older kids with the vaxes used at that time.<br>
I did not know that there were exemptions !!<br><br>
My thoughts /beliefs on health & healing have been changing over the past 4 years especially-I have many books on vaccines & health that I find useful but really it was my own GUT feeling that started me on this path of non vaxing.<br><br>
We now eat lots of organic foods<br>
we go to a chiropractor regularly<br>
I treat illness as a task that the body goes through for whatever reasons,your body is changed through illness .<br>
We use herbs & homeopathy for illness.<br><br>
I will not vaccinate myself or my kids .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,308 Posts
Hi pepsi,<br><br>
I wasn't aware of the yuckiness of some vaccines until after my little one had his first shot at 2 mos. It broke my heart how he screamed. HE was miserable for the better part of the next 2 days. I, of course, felt like the biggest bonehead in the world for putting him through something I wasn't 100% sure was crucial and vowed educate myself and weigh my options.<br><br>
AS a result, dh and I have decided to pick and choose which vax's he recieves and not be led by the 'normal' vax schedule.<br><br>
After much dicussion and research, we decided that he should have the Varicella vax. This was largely due to the fact that I watched my friend's little sister fight a loosing battle with chicken-poxs- related brain lesions. She ultimately passed away at the age of 6 after 4 months of hospitilization and 3 weeks on a ventilator. While I think that it would be best not to be exposed at all, and complications are rare, we felt this to be the lesser of a whole bucha evils.<br><br>
As parents, as I'm sure you're aware, we try to do what we feel is best for our kids. If you're anything like me, however, you're constantly questioning yourself as what that elusive 'best' thing is. That said, I know what's 'best' for my family isn't 'best' for every family and I would never presume to insist that 'my way' is the 'only way'. You've gotta figure out what's right for you.<br><br>
I'd happily cut off all of my limbs if it would spare ds a moment's discomfort!!!! Or make him laugh <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> for that matter. I'm such a sucker for that little cackle!!<br><br><br>
Happy hunting!!!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hippie.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hippie">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
717 Posts
OT, but I encourage you to keep researching the varicella vax. My friend's dd died from the vaccine. In a recent Minnesota outbreak it was only 59% effective in preventing varicella and the dept of health found that it was not effective after 7 years. 17% of the school came down with varicella. None of the unvax'd kids had serious disease. I'm not trying to admonish, but encourage you to continue with your research. Remember, adults over 20 compose 5% of varicella cases but 95% of varicella related deaths (CDC 1997).<br><br>
I encourage everyone to get the statistics for vaccine preventable diseases from your local health department. Find out what the risks are of the disease and the benefits, such as life long immunity. When are the diseases most harmful? Could a vaccine possible put off susceptability to disease until one is more likely to have complications? How often are outbreaks of diseases occuring in your area? What is the death rates?<br><br>
Here's a good example of some good stuff. In the pre-licensure trials of Prevnar, 1% of the children(17,000) vaccinated went to the ER with in 72 hours of receiving the vaccine and 8 died. However, the risk of contracting invasive pneumococcal disease in MN is 0.1%. The question you must answer is: am I willing to risk pneumococcal disease or risk a vaccine reaction.<br><br>
The VIS for MMR states that 1 in 3000 doses cause siezure. I know that two doses of MMR are rquired. Am I willing to take the risk that my child has a 1 in 1500 chance of a siezure from the MMR?<br><br>
Please research the diseases, research the vaccines. Read the package inserts carefully, look at VAERS, Look at the CDC Weekly Morbitity and Mortality Reports look at educational websites, talk with vaccine safety groups. Look at the PROVE and NVIC websites and make your desicions based on that research.<br><br>
Good Luck and Happy learning
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">However, I am wondering why you ask the question. You either do vaccinate, or you don't. Why do you need us to give you a reason?</td>
</tr></table></div>
Because I am intreasted in everyones opinions,in England most people vax and it is very uncommon not to so I was intreasted in why some people don't vax.I have doubts whether to give my baby the MMR and just wanted different views on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
575 Posts

<i>Originally posted by pepsi</i><br>
Because I am intreasted in everyones opinions,in England most people vax and it is very uncommon not to so I was intreasted in why some people don't vax.>>>><br><br>
I am not very active when it comes to reading up on vaccine issues anymore(getting into schooling and religion research),but from the articles posted on the elist I am on it would seem England has a large percentage of parents who do not vaccinate-especially for the MMR diseases. Three recent acticles went on and on about the increasing risk of getting measles,mumps,and passing on rubella to nonimmune mums(getting the disease is no big deal since it is mild).If you do a search on it I am sure you will turn up the information. It will take a lot of time to cover all the issues surrounding the MMR vaccine that is for sure!<br><br>
I don't vaccinate my children.I held off because I was injuried by the hepB.Started researching the others and realized they are all risky for us,and that while conventional med push the vaccines they don't off much help when things go wrong(which they often do,but don't get acknowledged).<br><br>
It has been 4 years since I started looking into the issue,and there are days when I still feel like a newbie that knows very little.<br>
sara
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,203 Posts
I quit vaccinating when I found out no one could give me a specific answer about the long term effects of injecting up to 40 doses of vaccines into my child in a span of 5 years. No specific answers about the safety (or lack of) of injecting aluminum, mercury, formaldehyde etc into my child. No specific answer on the mechanism(s) involved in a vaccine reaction and the fact that no one can tell me in advance if my child would suffer a serious reaction. The sad thing is though, I didn't quit until my son born in 1999 was adversely affected by the vaccines he had already received.<br><br>
Christine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
....that it was in England that the first "Measles Parties" were given.<br><br>
Everybody coming over for tea and natural immunity.<br><br>
Pepsi, have you had a chance to find and read about my son's measles?<br><br>
If you're having trouble negotiating the threads I can bring it here to ya.<br><br><br>
Don't just Procreate, Disseminate!<br><br><br>
Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,308 Posts
Out of curiosity (of course, I mean no disrespect), do you advocate this form of 'natural immunity' aquisition?<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">:<br><br>
(p.s. I did some searching for the thread on your son's measles with no luck. I don't presume to be the brightest crayon in the box <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Pepsi, I too am always interested in peoples decisions on vaccinating. It is a complex subject. I hope that you find out some views and the info that you need <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
I have vaccinated so far, and it is true that most people in England DO vaccinate, only the minority who don't get the publication.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br><br>
Alex
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,353 Posts
I did vaccinate my son up to 18 months. Skipping Varicella because I find it to be a ludicrous vaccine whose major selling point is less missed work for moms (I stay home with Ds and so I wasn't overly worried about missing work.) My whole family got our immunity to chicken pox the natural way. I have pictures to prove it. (the pictures of my little brother are especially funny because he prettended to be a monster the whole time he was sick.)<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> I wish I had never allowed a doctor near my poor Ds with a syringe. There are several threads not long ago about our battle against MMR and Hep B reactions. He is finally starting to come around, and I am proud to say he has even relearned a few words, but we have a tough road ahead of us. The pediatrician didn't want to address the idea of a vaccine reaction and kept suggesting other things ie. "maybe he went deaf from an ear infection?" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> It took a trip to the naturopath to finally start working things out. After all of this I can truly say I will never vaccinate my Ds again nor will I vaccinate babe #2 due in april. I know some of these diseases can pose a risk, but I believe in a bodies power to fight off disease and gain a permanent immunity. I made a mistake when my son was vaccinated, and unfortunately my son had to pay the price. I now know what the right answer is for my family. I just hope others are lucky enough to find their right answers without as much pain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
...no offence taken at all.<br><br>
It seems logical to me that an "immunity party" would be the best way to go---ideal on all accounts. My son's measles was not planned but we were quite prepared and orchestrated his recovery exquisitely-- working with his developing body to give it the powerful nutrients that it needed.<br><br>
The advantage of a planned immunity is that rather than an unknown virus--- whether wild or vax--- the intensity of a particular event could be monitored so that if perhaps the strain were more mild than others that aspect could be taken advantage of by many.<br><br>
I am forming a small group here in N.C. to do just this. Unfortunately, I had no one to share my son's measles with. The key as well, is that I would have shared my knowledge of how to guide the child through the disease as well.<br><br>
Really the most civilized form of immunity that exists.<br><br>
I am 43 and survived all of the childhood diseases (though Polio is a ? as I don't believe I got it as a vax-- probably asymptomatic---as my folks were on the move alot when I was young and I had no regular ped.) I'll get the ELISA one day just for shits and giggles.<br><br>
I got all of them WITHOUT breastmilk, on a basically mainstream diet, living in N.Y.C. in the early 60s--during a time that led the record for air pollution--- getting pleurisy at age 13.<br><br>
My son on the other hand was made, born and grown organically.<br><br>
He continues to be breastfed at 19 months and gets Goodpapa's SuperDuper Probiotic yogurt every day.<br><br><br>
This is perfection,<br><br><br>
Ray<br><br>
P.S. I bumped up "convince me to skip MMR" for you and Pepsi, it's a phenomenal discussion IMHO-- really a classic for all time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,308 Posts
iris0110,<br><br>
I am truly sorry for what you and your little one are going through.<br><br>
I would like address one of the comments you made in your reply:<br><br>
"Skipping Varicella because I find it to be<br>
a ludicrous vaccine whose major selling point is less missed work for moms (I stay home with Ds and so I wasn't overly worried about missing work.)"<br><br>
I would never, EVER, vaccinate my son because I felt it would keep we at work more consistantly. Just FYI and a little OT : In Canada, we Mama's are entitled to a full 12 months of Maternity leave and most jobs in both private and public sectors grant us 'parental leave' in case of emergencies.<br>
Our descision to give the Varicella vax (which has only been availible and covered by MSI in Canada for a few years) was the result of EXTENSIVE research and soul searching. SERIOUS complications (see my previous post) can result both from vaccinating as well as not vaccinating your child. As a parent, you have to make the best descision you can and accept the consequences of that descision, whichever way you choose to go.<br><br><br>
goodpapa:<br><br>
It's good to see someone so aware of the benefits of probiotics (the topic of my master's research). It's amazing what you can do with a little yogurt <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">.<br><br>
I terms of aquiring 'natural immunity', well, I'm a bit gun-shy of that whole thing. My personal feeling (for me, I would never presume to tell someone that my way is the right way) would be try try to keep my kid from being exposed period, rather than risk a serious rxn. As you realize, there are risks both to vaccinating and to not vaccinating. When you watch a perfectly healthy 6 year old DIE from somthing that is entirely preventable...well, let's just say, it's changed my way of looking at the chickenpox<br><br>
Thank you for sharing your story of your son's measles!<br><br>
Emily
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,308 Posts
I'd like to add that I'm not 'pro-vax' entirely. I am an advocate of during your own research and making your own descision's rather than blindly accepting what we're spoon-fed by medical science to go 'with the flow'.<br><br><br>
Goodpapa:<br><br>
I've got to agree with you 100% on the benefits of breastmilk! The only illness ds has ever had was a cold at 8 wks. I had it, got a fever and was miserable for 2 weeks! DS got it after I'd been infected for a week, had the sniffles for 2 days and then was right as rain. Powerful stuff that mama milk. Sadly, he weaned himself at 12 and 1/2 mos <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
758 Posts
I stopped vaxing at 6 months when I became more informed about the risks. Around this time my son started getting sick a lot and I decided that I didn't want to further compromise his immune system. Now I wished I had never vaxed at all. Unfortunately there is still a lot of pressure and misinformation in our society and families.<br><br>
Mary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
726 Posts
Emily, I'd really enjoy hearing more about your masters thesis on probiotics.<br><br>
Here is the story of my epiphany(scroll down):<br><br><a href="http://mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79580&perpage=20&pagenumber=4" target="_blank">http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...0&pagenumber=4</a><br><br>
I'm fully convinced that we would have continued suffering endless miscarriages if it hadn't been for the power of probiotics.<br><br>
Now I know that 70% of our immune system is in our GI tract.<br><br>
As a young boy, Sherlock Holmes was my favorite reading, and I cannot resist getting to "the truth."<br><br>
When you say that a "perfectly healthy 6 year old" died from complications due to chicken pox I have to know more.<br><br>
I as well, mean no disrespect, but while perception may be "reality" often it is not "truth."<br><br>
I do know this. My son's measles will never go diagnosed as such even by our fully "on board" physician.<br><br>
To have a case of measles diagnosed means that it must be reported to health officials and bring unwanted attention to the practice of a physician who would allow a non-vaxed child.<br><br>
Now, with the full blown vax schedule, any diseases that are part of the system, ie., are vaxed for, are NOT the ones that end up on the physician's report even if they are what is causing an illness. Measles becomes a "viral illness". To do so would mean to have to acknowledge that the system is broken.<br><br>
Occasionally, during an outbreak of some vaxed illness they do keep records to make studies and it is always amazing how many of the vaxed children end up getting the illness. This results in the "system" saying that unvaxed children are "dangerous" to vaxed children.<br><br>
HOW ABSURD!!---if the system is working.<br><br>
I'm positive that my son's illness was caught from a vaxed child--- the measles virus is an attenuated live virus, but if you read Jamie Murphy's "What Every Parent..." you see that the attenuation process is hit or miss.<br><br>
In my mind, what took place to take that poor little girl's life-- not necessarily what the physicians put down on paper-- remains a mystery.<br><br><br>
The bottom line to all of this is that whether we don't vax or fully vax or anything in between, the chemicals that we DO need, those within what we consume as our diet--- that the plant and animal world provide--- need to be fully explored and understood so that we get everything good and as little bad as possible.<br><br><br>
Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food,<br>
(Hippocrates),<br><br><br>
Ray
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,308 Posts
Ray,<br><br>
I'm very sorry for the losses you and your wife suffered. It's disturbing to think that if the bulk of the medical community would open up their minds just a little, many of these tradgedies would be preventable <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">.<br><br>
My thesis deals mainly with the effects of probiotics on gastric and intestinal inflammation. I was looking primarily at inflammatory cytokine levels in the presence and absence of pathogens as well as the presence and absence of a buncha probiotics. Found some interesting stuff! An interesting side line is the effect of probiotic yeasts, selenium and cancer cell growth.<br><br>
My findings support the use of probiotics as a preventative. That is to say, that with daily use of probiotics, one can delay or even prevent the need for anitbiotic use. I like to call it 'proactive health'.<br><br>
On the chicken pox thing, absolutely no offence taken. Please understand, this was a number of years ago, so I'm a tad sketchy on the details, but to the best of my knowledge the little one was not immunocompromised at the time. She came down with a case of the chicken-pox during an outbreak in the small town where i grew up. She had neither a very mild case, nor a very severe case. The lesions came out and she had a moderate fever. After 3 days with the lesions, she spiked quite a high temp and was taken to the ER. They kept her overnight and released her. Next day, she complained of a sore tongue and her parents found that she had lesions on her tongue. Spiked another temp the following night accompanied with vomiting and started having convulsions. She rushed back to the ER, admitted and was never released. The diagnosis was 'Varicella related encephalitis'. The most heartbreaking thing was that in the 4 months she spent in the IWK (childrens hospital), she rallied twice to the point where the Doc's were thinking of sending her home. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
As to what ultimately took her life, well, no one can say for sure. What irritates me most about Doc's is that they almost never admit to uncertainty. IF they could just 'lower' themselves and admit that they DON'T KNOW, just like the rest of us, I think we'd have a bit more trust for them. How can the 'know'? Do they have the ability to look into our bodies and see which pathway isn't working, or which cell is attacking what? No, none of us do! The best ANY of us can do is make an educated guess.<br><br>
"To the uneducated, an 'A' is just three sticks"<br>
-Eeyore<br>
Emily
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Just a little bit of information I found out. They use to have a 98% SIDS death rate in China, until they stopped vaccinations. They made a law that no child was to be vaccinated until the age of 2. The SIDS rate dropped to 34%. Are they related? You tell me? ME<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top