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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
you just bare your soul...really put yourself out there and it just gets ignored?<br><br>
I just deleted a post in another forum. I'm having a really hard time with a particular issue with dd1 and I don't have anywhere in real life to discuss it or problem-solve, etc.<br><br>
We'll get through it. I just needed some support and wanted to hear some other perspectives and insights.<br><br>
My feelings were hurt when the message was soo obviously ignored. People were responding to all sorts of other things... I need a "crickets" smilie.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
No big deal...I just wanted to scamper back over here to the safety of my sweet ddc...
 

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Anything we can help with here in the DDC? Lay it out to us here and see if we can help. At the very least I can tell you why you got crickets or something. I am feeling honest today. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
But seriously, try it!
 

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I feel like that sometimes on some of the other forums. Chin up and stick with us , mama <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br>
Anything we can do to help?
 

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Yeah, I know what you mean. Some of the MDC areas, it feels like you need to break into the clique before you can get input.<br><br>
Post it over here... we might not be able to help, but you know you'll feel the love from us!
 

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I am the ultimate thread killer, so I totally understand. I only post here. I love reading in TAO, but nobody ever answers my posts there lol.<br><br>
Totally feel free to vent here.
 

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Yup, I know how you feel, and it can be painful when it's a topic that's a bit sensitive. We're all here for you whatever the problem, be it related to pregnancy or not, so feel free to lay it on us. I promise that even if I don't reply to every thread, I'm reading them all and feeling for all of you.
 

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Just chiming in to say I've had that experience too. Honestly I agree with the others, post it here, at the very least we will give you the love you need Momma.<br><br><br>
'Cuz we think you're awesome.
 

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I've had that happen before...and as much as the logical part of me says it shouldn't, it DOES hurt!<br><br>
So I just stopped... <shrug><br><br>
It can't help to try it out on us! At least we'll answer!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, the gist of it is this...<br><br>
Dd1 is 6 (she'll be 7 in Nov) and she has been a night owl since she was about 3. My dd2...for the time being...is an early riser. Not only is she an early riser, but she really needs to get out of the house early. By the time dd1 wakes up, dd2 is ready for a nap!<br><br>
We are really trying to be respectful of this...I'm looking for a mother's helper to come in the mornings and do some cleaning and laundry while dd1 sleeps in, so that I can safely leave the house for a bit with dd2. So far I haven't found anyone, but I remain hopeful. I have a phone date with a friends teenage daughter this evening...<br><br>
All of dd2's activities (that she chooses to do) are scheduled in the afternoon or early evening. I try to avoid scheduling anything in the am...but, it does happen occasionally because its more convenient for the rest of the family.<br><br>
The problems that we're having are with sneakiness and dishonesty during the night. Maybe I'm creating this...I don't know.<br><br>
My dh is out of town from 5am on Monday morning until 7pm on Thursday evening. By the evening, I am usually wiped out. I don't mean to, but usually fall asleep with dd2, who co-sleeps.<br><br>
Dd1 has been sneaking back downstairs, on the nights when I ask her to get to bed early because we have to wake up early, to watch TV and eat junk food... She's barely eating food at mealtimes during the day and not taking care of her teeth.<br><br>
I wish I could just not keep any "junk" in the house--like we used to do. But, with dd2's allergies to soy and dairy, neither of us can just run out and get a treat easily from the ice cream shop or the chocolate shop, kwim? So, we stock up on stuff from the health food store and a monthly co-op. We also have all sorts of other stuff in the house...and always lots and lots of fresh fruit.<br><br>
I want dd1 to self-regulate...but this stuff is expensive and I'm not seeing that she can do that right now. She obviously knows that she shouldn't be eating this much of it because she's doing it at night.<br><br>
We're spending all kinds of money on her activities...and it pisses me off that we're probably going to be spending more money on unnecessary dental work! It's one thing if she's trying hard to care for her teeth and gets cavities anyway...but, it's a constant battle to get her to do the basics during the day. And, now she's sleeping all night (or rather, all morning) with the crap sitting on her teeth.<br><br>
I'm feeling angry and resentful...probably because my own needs are not being met right now... That's another issue.<br><br>
I just don't like the sneakiness, etc, and feeling like I'm being walked all over. I also don't want to encourage more sneakiness and dishonesty by responding to this in a very punitive way, kwim?<br><br>
I just don't know what to do...
 

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I have to preface this by saying that my son is not quite 3 and can't get out of his room on his own yet, so I am speaking from guesswork, not based on experience. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
I don't know if 7 is old enough to understand this, but you're accommodating her need for sleep when she won't. Her body needs sleep, but she's not meeting her own need for it. I would suggest waking her earlier in the morning and biting the bullet on a few grumpy, unpleasant days. This might help her self-regulate her sleep clock, getting sleepy earlier in the evening.<br><br>
The snack thing.... boy, that sounds familiar. I do that and I'm 36. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bag.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Bag">: And I don't brush my teeth a second time either. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bag.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Bag">:<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bag.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Bag">: Can you talk to her about it and take the emphasis off the food while shifting it to the teeth? Impress upon her that it's really, really, really important to brush her teeth a second time if she has a snack after the initial tooth-brushing? Whether that snack is ice cream or popcorn or an apple.<br><br>
Regarding the food, can you explain to her that she has a choice -- to self-regulate and make sure that she leaves enough snacks for others in the home, or have the food made unavailable to her without your permission (while still leaving plenty of other snack options -- just not the expensive stuff)? It's a two-way street. I don't think it's punitive to take away the privilege of having free reign on the pricey snacks if she won't be responsible and meet a legitimate request to be respectful of others in the house.<br><br>
The emotional needs that nighttime snacking are fulfilling is a whole other thing... maybe I am projecting my own eating issues, but it seems like something else is going on there. Not an easy situation to solve.<br><br>
I hope this is somewhat helpful. If not, then just accept some <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">. Hopefully some other mamas with more years of parenting under their belt can give you some good advice. Sorry you are dealing with this!
 

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We go through the same with the boys, and it always starts around that age.<br><br>
What I would suggest is that you MUST be the one to get her to brush her teeth before you go to bed and when she gets up in the morning. When I consistently tell them to get it done, it gets done twice a day and they no longer complain.<br><br>
As she gets older, you will still have to tell her, but she won't need so much monitoring when she sets off to do it. Luckily my house is small, so I can sit on the couch or in my bedroom and HEAR them brushing teeth in the bathroom. If you have to, put her brush in your room.<br><br>
I thought I could get my oldest to be responsible for his own teeth, but it became clear to me last year when he got $750 worth of work on his teeth that were mostly BABY TEETH and are currently falling out!!! What a waste!<br><br>
So I took a more active stance and he's now asked to complete the chore before bed and before school and he's not even grumbling anymore. Once in a while he pleads to do it later and I just say no way.<br><br>
Sneakiness and lying is a HUGE pet peeve of mine! Ugh!! It makes me irate!! Seems all my lil buggers go through this stage though.<br><br>
I would lock the pantry somehow. It might tke work on your part to coordinate this and then you just have to unlock in the morning and lock at night, but you have to self regulate her intake since she can't. I have all the items like that in a pantry shelf with a door. If you don't have a pantry like that, choose a cupboard to hold the stuff she gets into and lock that.<br><br>
As a self-professed safety girl, I would be really worried that she would choke in the night and no one would know, or that her consumption will cause diabetes.<br><br>
Definitely talk to her about your taking the stuff away and that she will need to eat meals or she will end up being very hungry. I then hold the meal if they didn't eat it and re-warm that later.<br><br>
After the baby is born, maybe you could work on getting her sleep schedule back just a wee bit so the whole family isn't suffering. Little by little.<br><br>
Good luck!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Curlita</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9023306"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't know if 7 is old enough to understand this, but you're accommodating her need for sleep when she won't. Her body needs sleep, but she's not meeting her own need for it. I would suggest waking her earlier in the morning and biting the bullet on a few grumpy, unpleasant days. This might help her self-regulate her sleep clock, getting sleepy earlier in the evening.</div>
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I have to say, this does NOT work for us genuine night owls. You can try to put me to bed earlier, but I'll just toss and turn until 2 AM, which is my normal, biological bedtime. You can put me to bed at 9, but I still won't be ready to get up until 10 AM. I have been this way my whole life. Regulating my sleep clock NEVER, EVER worked; it just made me grumpy and tired and stupid during the day.<br><br>
I'm also a night eater. I'm just not hungry until noon, and then I get mildly hungry, then very hungry late at night - probably also my biological clock. It's tough - I don't know what to say, mom, except can you leave out some healthy snacks for DD1 so she doesn't have to sneak around? Put a lock on the sweets if you have to - protect her nutritional health and her teeth. Don't make her sneak around, kwim? Just adjust things so that she's only eating good stuff.
 

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Oh Jessica, I wish I had some sage advice. Honestly the start of 7 (and on) has been VERY difficult with DD and similar things. Not being completely honest unless we basically catch her in the act, sass that won't quit, etc.<br><br>
It may be that for a little while you HAVE to get her up with the other and get her used to a different schedule. Sounds mean possibly, but Deja goes to bed when we mandate because she HAS to get up in the morning with me in order to get to her summer care situation. She threw a minor fit about it at first, but has adjusted and I know that it will help during the school year too.<br><br>
As for the sneaking, is there a way to counter act that? I may get flamed (but doubt it since this isn't the parenting board) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> but I'd honestly start taking away some privlidges at each offense until she can start living truthfully. It's not like you have to spank her, punish her, etc (we don't do those in our house either) but I am a firm believer that they at some point have to learn that their actions will bring about other reactions/consequences.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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I know -- i get a lot of responces that are flip and don't apply when i try to post stuff about DH or DS or the combo of the two ..... i write a lot off it of to haveing a "differnt" life than a lot of moms here <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
PM if you need something, or jsut someone to talk to.<br><br>
I did n't read all teh responces yet -- i will<br><br>
and this might not be as GD as you would like <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
1. can you lock the pantry ?? even just a hook and eye with a little bike lock -- and put away everything ? How about good old fasion magent tot locks and take the "key" with you. so she has access ONLY to what you leave out -- and leave her somethong out that is not expensive or bad for her teath -- and water of course? there is nothing punitive in limited high dollar, special, or sugary or abused snacks. as long as she has access to food and drink -- it is perfectly reasomable for some food to be limited access.<br><br>
2. i know you can't make her sleep -- anyone who doe sknow how to make someone sleep tell me -- but you can enforce "it is house bedtime, you will stay in your room and be quiet if you choose not to sleep". child proof her room, give her books and queit toys and agree on a "consenquence" if she leaves her room for anythong other than potty and water ... ie TV or play. ask her what she would like, maybe a safe craft project or something -- some saved from when she has to be in her room for family bedtime but is not tired?<br><br>
3. I would seriously consider a "family wake up time" ... if she is sleeping late and staying up late .. she is just gonna keep sleeping late and staying up late. No she doesn't have to get up at the same time as DD2 who is a natural early riser -- but set a time, say 9 or 9:30 and wake her up.. a week or two of heck , to be sure, but maybe help her reset her body clock to a limited extent? You are already accomdating her to let her sleep later than DD2 by keeping DD2 from waking her and so on -- she can "give a little too".<br><br>
4. I would say YOU and DD1 and DD2 do bedtime routine togheter before DD2 goes to bed -- everyone wash up, brush teeth, put on PJS ... whatever else matters in your house. that way she is not one her honor for her own bedtime stuff ... AND .. you have started the idea that it IS bedtime even if you are not sleepy ....<br><br>
5. As for no meals -- she is old enough that no meals = no fun snacks. "you need a certain amount of healthy food, before teh fun extras. We usally eat that at meals, however if you don't feel like eating it at meals, you still need to eat it before anything else. so if you don't feel like eating a health dinner, then you can snack on X, Y and Z which are a good subsitue and no A, D and H which are more of a treat or a snack" -- "however you want to work it out dear, but you much consure X amount of these foods before anything else will be considered ... as meals with me or snack alone, it is your choice" that way skipping meals doesn't get her to get to eat the fun food in place of the meal food.<br><br>
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?????? is the sneaky and lieing -- just cuz she is 7 and reality is felxible? ie what mom does see didn't happen and it could have been that way ??? or is she really "knowlying" making poor choices in what she tells you? adn more difiant? is that somethign that needs to be address beyond the "changes in the house to keep everyone safe"?<br><br>
and also -- is any of it, or could any of it, but due to you being more tired, or due to undicussed anxiety abotu the baby? changes in life (related to baby or not) and so on ?????<br><br>
I do agre with PP to a limited extent, i tend to stay up late and sleep plate let to my own devices ... but i can still function in a job that demand in my office with the office running by 6 am, thus bed no later than 10 (did it for 5 years) .. you can modfy your natural sleep schdule <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> also -- oe thing i find about me (and DH though HE won't admit it) we both tend to work late into the night then want to sleep late ... well if i make myself go to bed at 10, tired or not, i will go to sleep by 11 or 12 ..... where as if i "keep working" or "sit up watching TV wating to get tired" I can be up past 2 or 3 without feeling tired --- biological clocks can be altered and worked with -- and beyond that -- sometimes, hate it or not, job, school, toddler, life demands we function not on our own personal ideal <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Aimee
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
We do have her brush her teeth in the morning and at night, regardless of the struggle. It's just that she is eating after she brushes her teeth at night...<br><br>
I do worry about the emotional thing behind the eating. I'm not sure how to deal with this when my own tank is so empty...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
My mom had locks everywhere and it just made me sneakier. I refuse to go down that path. This is our home.<br><br>
As for the sleep conditioning/training....well, I sincerely and honestly gave that my all for about a year and a half before I realized it was fruitless if I wanted to have any kind of a positive relationship with my dd. She would toss and turn and wake up not rested at all...and she would wet the bed. It was clear to me that she is just on a different clock. Yes, we could spend years and years continuing to fight it..but at what cost?<br><br>
I think I will be less stressed about it when I get some household help in the am...so that everyone else is not being tied down by her sleep schedule.<br><br>
I also worry about the safety issues of her being up alone at night and need to have another talk with her about this. I set the alarm...so she's "safe" from outside dangers, but she could fall, choke, etc. This is another reason why I don't want to hide and lock stuff because she'd be more likely to get hurt trying to go after it.<br><br>
I really need to get to the source of the problem, rather than just bandage the symptoms... I'm just not sure how to go about it and where to get support without being demonized for our family life choices, kwim?
 

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I totally understand you not wanting to go down the same path as your mother and sometimes kids get sneakier from the things we do. But a lock can be a temporary thing while you work on the issues.<br><br>
If you feel that you don't have the energy to work on what she needs by yourself, perhaps have her go to a counselor so she can work on them with you there.<br><br>
I talked and talked for years with DS2 about his video game use and addictions and encouraged him to self regulate, etc. This was causing troubles in school, at home, personally and physically. Yet he couldn't do it on his own. We removed the problem. Period. Similar to the lock theory.<br><br>
Just because you install one lock does not make you your mother!<br><br>
Anywhoo, whether you decide to use that option or not, good luck. At some point you have got to find the energy to deal with all of this and get your daughter to where she needs to be before she gets older.<br><br>
My oldest is 12 and diagnosed bipolar. Sometimes I don't feel like I have an ounce of anything to move forward. It is not easy any time of any day. He's a full time job alone. Honestly, I couldn't work outside the home if I wanted to at this point. I get called for so many things so many days while he's in school, and when he's home, it's constant.<br><br>
Then I have the two other boys who also need me and are in their own stages of life. Now this pregnancy and I am sick all the time.<br><br>
Yet recently I began reading things and advocating for him again and some things have gotten easier. I double checked with a doctor that should have called me, to find that his levels were off. That causes problems with behavior and coping. So along with getting his levels regulated, I've spent time working through his issues and trying SO HARD to keep my patience with him. It's working.<br><br>
I am in a tough spot with my husband and my midwives/pregnancy, my kids' school, my volunteering, finances... and I don't feel my needs are being met either. I want to curl up and cry and give up. So I know somewhat how you're feeling! But obviously I don't know everything.<br><br>
Keep at it, one little step at a time. She needs you to pull it together enough to work on this issue so she can stay healthy and feel loved. I know you can do this, Jessica. You're obviously a strong mama who needs some help, but who is surviving a lot.<br><br>
Hopefully this hits where it's intended. I really do care and am trying to be supportive and not a bully. So if it feels too harsh or something, please know I am on your side and just giving whatever advice I can so maybe you don't feel so helpless and maybe I don't feel helpless about not being able to help you!
 

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Ugh! I just had a long reply typed and lost it all! Don't you hate it when that happens? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Let's see if I can re-create it...<br><br>
When I was a kid I was a total night owl. I remember being excited when I got assigned to afternoon kindergarten, not morning, b/c it meant I could sleep in. I must have been five?!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I could stay up all night and sleep most of the day and be perfectly happy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"><br><br>
My mom got this tip from a neighbor who also had a night owl DD. The rule was that I had to be in bed by the time my parents designated (which got later as I got older) I could only leave my bed to use the bathroom. But I could take as many books to bed as I wanted and stay up as late as I wanted *IF* I stayed in my bed and was quiet. I don't remember breaking the rule, since it seemed like a pretty good arrangement to me at the time...but I think that if you did this you would have to be VERY clear about the guidelines you choose and also have clear consequences if she doesn't follow the rules, especially since she's used to getting up and doing what she wants. But, I also think it might work well for everyone, save the occasional morning appt you can't avoid when she might be grumpy.<br><br>
I also think you should investigate the eating esp. if your gut feeling is that it's emotional-- you're probably right.<br><br>
There. I think I captured the gist of what I was saying before, even if not as eloquently. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment">
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Keep at it, one little step at a time. She needs you to pull it together enough to work on this issue so she can stay healthy and feel loved. I know you can do this, Jessica. You're obviously a strong mama who needs some help, but who is surviving a lot.</td>
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I ttoally agre with Momster here --<br><br>
1. limits, and locks, can be a time limtied TOOL rather than a way of life. Self regluation is TOUGH to learn, and 7 may not really be devoplmental ready for a lot of "freedom". Like keeping the crayons in a high drawer till the kids learn not to color on walls.... all thing take time and occure in little peices. more and more freedom can be "earned" as she developes the ablity to handle it ... that is safest and really, IMO only, kindest to her anyway -- set her up for success.<br><br>
2. things like this -- and momsters oldest -- can be sooooooooooo draning and sooooooooooo time consumeing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> ......... but one think i learned with my foster kids, and myself, is that once you put forthe the BIG PUCH to start a positive cyle, to start things moving forwartd -- it does get eaiers. Kids tend to cycle -- for good or bad -- get them going in a good direction and to a limited extent their own motion keeps it going, let thing start getting bad and they only get worse. the really hard thing is getting started <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">.<br><br>
Take care of yourself, sit and and decided WHAT you really want to change / effect / do ... AND then decide HOW ... decided what you want thing to look like, then decide how to get there -- and remember you are the mom, and yes your daught deserves respect, but she is 7 and not aware of the world, or herself flounding in it. but you can't get anywhere till you know where you want to go. set some big goals -- what you want to see BE -- what should the home and family look like.... then pick it apart -- what needs to happen, to get there.....<br><br>
There are AP counslors out there -- i am not sure how to go about finding one -- i am sure some one here either knows how to -- or we figure it out <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
if you decide you and / or the family and / or she need that<br><br>
Aimee
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">My mom got this tip from a neighbor who also had a night owl DD. The rule was that I had to be in bed by the time my parents designated (which got later as I got older) I could only leave my bed to use the bathroom. But I could take as many books to bed as I wanted and stay up as late as I wanted *IF* I stayed in my bed and was quiet. I don't remember breaking the rule, since it seemed like a pretty good arrangement to me at the time...but I think that if you did this you would have to be VERY clear about the guidelines you choose and also have clear consequences if she doesn't follow the rules, especially since she's used to getting up and doing what she wants. But, I also think it might work well for everyone, save the occasional morning appt you can't avoid when she might be grumpy</td>
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this was our agreement too<br><br>
I got a glass of water, now i would give a bottle <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
and i could read -- or work on some parent approved as safe craft projects (I hade a plastic weaving loom thing i remmber you made scarves with yarn) -- but i had to be in bed and i had to be quiet.<br><br>
I know i alwasy listen to dad watch Johnny Casron, mom went to bed before i was asleep every night, ... if i was awake when he went to bed past 12 (usally around 1) he told me it was time to rest, and shut off the light and i lay there ... we talked about things to do while i was laying there -- repeat back to myself books i had read, make a wish list for christmas, and so on ....<br><br>
but with that was the fact i had to get up -- be it school or church -- and i had to deal with being tired if i was, because as dad said "life marches on".<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
if i got up and got silly -- which i don't remember -- but must have at the start of the program . the light went off THEN and it was bedtime. I must have learned not to blow the good gig fast cuz i don't really remember that -- just he getting to stay up.<br><br>
Aimee
 
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