[Metasequoia]

http://www.icnr.com/

What do you guys think of this guy? I'm posting here because I remember reading about him or hearing about him in WAPF circles - and I'm coming at this from a nutritional perspective.

I found him while looking for a dentist/orthodontist who does cranialsacral work and uses the ALF appliance rather than traditional braces because my 11 yr old Dd just got braces but I don't feel it's the best approach and I have a whole list of issues stemming from a bad bite as a result of extractions as a kid and braces. I didn't make the connection until I started reading his website & then a bell went off "I've heard of this guy!"

I noticed a couple of vegan links but I'm not sure that he recommends veganism or vegetarianism - could be he's just making suggestions for "healthier" veg diets.

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[shanescan]

I have known Dr. G.H. Smith for over ten years. He has been been dogged about finding a cure for his wife's ovarian cancer, but as far as I know, he has not yet succeeded. In this way, his book is a bit misleading; since publication the cancer has returned several times. I admire his efforts, yet sometimes wonder if he exaggerates a bit. He does have proven success with pain management with his cranial sacral work.

 

[1love4ever]

Your thread title reminded me of this video

I dont know who the guy is that you mentioned tho, but I do recommend this video!

 

[Snuggobug]

I have had a few appt's with Dr. Smith. I had to stop going because he is VERY expensive. $450 just to see him and $250 for additional appointments after that. Then he wants you to take a lot of supplements which will run you another $100 or so each time you go, until he determines that you are properly detoxed. This is all before he even addresses the actual dental or health issue you went for. I understand that nutrition is very important but this was just too much to pay on a monthly basis. If someone has all of this knowledge/experience then they should make it accessible to the average person. There was no way I could continue to afford seeing him. I did not get the feeling that he truly wanted to help me, there was a bit of a coldness to him. He uses kinesiology in diagnosing many issues. He seemed to know what he was doing.......he just charges a WHOLE lot for it and doesn't tell you what he's actually going to do for you or how much it will end up costing you before it's all said and done.

 

[Metasequoia]

Snuggobug, I've been concerned about him pushing supps and me declining (which is what I'd have to do.) He gave us a full price for everything, and a treatment length. It's a ton of money, but honestly, less than I was anticipating. Dd has had her braces on her upper teeth for 6.5 months and I fired her orthodontist a couple of months back. I'm torn between throwing the $2500 down payment on my CC to see Dr. Smith and seeing another doctor just to have the braces removed and doing regular CST. Sigh.

 

[Metasequoia]

FINALLY have an update! Dd had her appt today after having her consult back in October. Dr. Smith took her top braces OFF (!!) and did mold. He'll send that off to Canada where the ALF will be made and then sent back. She'll go back in 3-4 weeks to get the ALF and some CST. We're also doing chiro, CST & myofascial release to compliment. I can't explain the relief I feel having those things off of her teeth!

 

[pearljelly]

I agree, if a doctor can help he should make the help available to the average person. It is shameful that he charges so much. I'm tired of hearing about how docs like him have been screwed by insurance, etc. Suck it up Dr. Smith, we've all been screwed. I do believe he is bitter because his wife has cancer and the cancer is stronger than her, or him. I do believe he is enraged by this, and it does feel as if he is taking it out on his patients, and whatever God has let him down.

I have done much research on him and have spoken with his secretary over the years, ....yes years! Because the initial fee was daunting and would have taken such a huge percentage of the money I've earned in my life that I had to seriously consider if I could afford rent or Dr. Smith! I questioned was it worth it to feel that much better, and would I really? There are so many types of therapy, psychological, physiological, physical...that I wondered maybe I could get through what my problem was, cheaper, by some kind of mind/body understanding within myself because at least I'd have a roof over my head to contemplate my pain, whereas therapy with Smith would have put me under, ...probably living under a bridge somewhere, with a straight jaw no less and even that wasn't guaranteed.

However I do not have the kind of pain that I hear people have, nothing excruciating, nothing so far out of alignment that it kills me or puts me in a position to beg any doctor to help me, but I do believe he makes it miserable for people who have no choice, are in a lot of pain, and have not been helped by traditional docs. He's a last resort doctor who knows it and tortures people by not giving them a break. At all.

Many years ago I made an appointment with Smith and then didn't show up. It was snowing and I wasn't able to get there with the weather problem, but he didn't care. He told his secretary not to schedule me anymore, he dumped me as a patient. His time was just worth too much, and sitting there waiting for me and me not showing pissed him off. How dare I? That told me a lot about his arrogance and I have to laugh. When such doctors think they're God they should be put in their place.

 

[Runningdeer]

Stay away from this guy, my personal experience was not good.

For a (3) day service it was $3,500 and he wants the money when you walk thru the door. Your so desperate to get better that you just hope that the doctor can put you on the right path. So I saved my money and drove in from a near by state, stayed in a local hotel and went to see him.

The first day he did Kinesiology tests on me told me that my thyroid was not good and then tried to sell me $800 + dollars worth of supplements that I never heard of. Then put a shim on one of my rear teeth and sent me back to the hotel. I was in more pain the next day then the first, he couldn't understand why so he did electrical stim on me during that time two other new patients came in and guess what, they too had thyroid issues and he tried to sell them supplements. Total office visit about 3 hours.

The next day was no better, he adjusted the shim and did not stim, total office visit was about an hour.

The third day he set me up on a machine that I have no idea what it did but was suppose to heal me, now I know I just blow $3500 and the hotel money. Total office visit 2 hours.

So for 6 hours it cost me $3,500 ……wow that's $583 an hour, not bad.

These so called TMD specialist prey on people that are in such pain that we would go to a witch doctor if we new they could help.

Do the research on any doctor you go to, talk to former patients and get on sites like these and ask the questions.

Oh ya he drives a nice Porsche…..guess I just bought him new tires…..

 

[Runningdeer]

You think Smith is expensive, Dr Chan in Las Vegas is 20k to walk thru the door. He works on you for 3 days and then you have to come back to him for adjustments + work with a Chiro. All said in done over the course of say two years (if you lucky), 40k and that just his cost. And guess what NO GUANUTEES, that's right NO GUANUTEES he makes you better. How do these doctors get away this. I would be nice if the evaluate you then give you an HONEST opionion if they can help and go from there. NOPE they suck you in and make you pay up front.

 

[thumbtack]

I know this is an older thread but I was hoping the OP might come back and update. I have been looking into Dr. Smith and would love to hear how your dd's treatment is going.

 

[Metasequoia]

Runningdeer, I'm sorry you had a negative experience. I was also told that my thyroid was in the dumps, but I already knew that, so in my case, it's true. I do think thyroid issues are a HUGE problem right now because of all of the radiation from Fukushima. It's actually all over the internet and some states have been testing the thyroid function of newborns and reporting an alarming increase in hypothyroidism - especially on the west coast and Hawaii. The fallout has affected the whole world and the US is no exception.

I haven't found him to be "bitter" in the least; on the contrary, he's always been chatty and amiable. He always tells us about things we can be doing to protect ourselves from various environmental toxicities from EMFs to heavy metals to chemtrails to nuclear fallout - and these aren't expensive supplements that only he sells; one of the best ways to prevent damage from radiation is pectin and he recommended simply eating an apple a day (no pun intended. )

I don't think he's a quack; I think he does his research, decides what he thinks is legitimate and finds ways to protect the human body from damage.

He's not cheap, but to be honest, he charged a lot less than I anticipated for my daughter's orthodontic treatment. We were fortunate that she didn't need anything beyond the ALF and cranialsacral adjustments. I know a few people who have taken their children for dental issues and needed to address toxicity issues beforehand.

My daughter had both the upper and lower ALFs removed this past spring and then had braces put on the upper teeth and then the lower teeth around April/May. During the time that she had the ALFs on, people who we saw occasionally (maybe twice a month) kept commenting on how her entire face had changed. Her cheekbones expanded outward and moved forward giving her entire face a more rounded and full look. She's had very minimal discomfort and no pain whatsoever despite her teeth, palate, face and skull shifting in what appears to be a major shift.

Like I said previously, we've been seeing a myofascial/cranialsacral therapist all along who also happens to be our friend. One of the first times my daughter went to him after beginning her treatment with Dr. Smith, our therapist said, "Dr. Smith knows what he's doing, everything feels good!" And he'd been working on her for a while before she began treatment with Dr. Smith, so he knew his way around her skull. This past spring when Dr. Smith announced "I'll take the ALF off at the next visit, her head is straightened out!" I was so excited to see what our CST therapist had to say. After working on her for nearly an hour, he agreed that everything had moved into place. I'm so glad that I have this other opinion that I trust to confirm what Dr. Smith says. It's not that I don't trust Dr. Smith, but it's hard to take somebody's word when it's not something you can see for yourself.

I'm going to post before and after photos for you all to see - it's nothing short of a miracle as far as I'm concerned. We even think she can keep her wisdom teeth! This may not seem as miraculous to someone who hasn't been through what I've been through with orthodontists and my own mouth. To spare my children the destruction of their mouths (and entire head structure!) is worth every cent to me.

 

[Metasequoia]

I also wanted to add that he suggested I take a handful of supplements to help detox my thyroid (some I declined because I'm still BFing and didn't feel comfortable despite his reassurance that they were fine - gotta trust that mama instinct.) I wrote down the names/brands and I ordered the ones I found for less and bought the others from him that were reasonably priced. He wasn't upset that I did it this way (or at least he never implied that he was.) I said that I wanted to research the supplements before I bought them because I wanted to make sure I felt comfortable taking them while nursing.

 

[thumbtack]

Thank you for sharing! I would love to see before and after pictures when you are able.

 

[Metasequoia]

@thumbtack the braces come off in 2 weeks! I'll wait to get pictures that day so I can share a true "before and after!" She's so beautiful and comfortable with herself.

She even said that she feels like her jaw is so much wider and hasn't complained of jaw pain forever!

 

[lookatreestar]

would love to see before and after pics!

 

[Metasequoia]

I need to run up and get my camera to upload pics (in a minute) but I wanted to post this YouTube video of Dr. Smith giving a lecture. AMAZING stuff. Insanely fascinating!

 

[Metasequoia]

Okay, I FINALLY have some pics to share.

1/25/10 - age (almost) 10 - before any orthodontia treatment:​

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2/3/10 - before treatment, age 10:​

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12/25/11 - 1st braces after rapid palate expansion (conventional orthodontia):​

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4/23/12 - Braces removed by Dr. Smith - age 12:​

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6/9/12 - Relapse from conventional orthodontia - 12.5:​

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5/3/13 - ALF expansion - 13:​

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Braces on after ALF (no decent pictures)​

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1/28/14 - Braces off! ALF treatment finished - age 14:​

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[lookatreestar]

wow she is beautiful!!:love my dd just had a baby molar extracted (decay/abscess) and the dentist/ortho made a comment on how it won't matter in the long run because she will have tons of space issues (i had said something about needing it as a place holder). sigh. she goes in soon for a consult with a dentist who does orthotropics so i guess we'll see where it takes us... thanks again for keeping this thread updated!!:thumb

 

[countryangels]

Teeth & braces question. Age & cost related.

FINALLY have an update! Dd had her appt today after having her consult back in October. Dr. Smith took her top braces OFF (!!) and did mold. He'll send that off to Canada where the ALF will be made and then sent back. She'll go back in 3-4 weeks to get the ALF and some CST. We're also doing chiro, CST & myofascial release to compliment. I can't explain the relief I feel having those things off of her teeth!

Thanks for the pictures of your daughters updates.
She looks amazing. Just lovely :smile:

In your opinion, as well as others here, is it better
to put braces on a young age, 9 or 10?

Or is it better to wait for the baby teeth to come out & all of the permanent ones to be out? To avoid a relapse.

And at what ages does this happen? When are you done
changing all of your teeth?

How much approx. is the total expense of the braces, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Metasequoia]

Well, our palates and jaws are still growing and expanding into our twenties so to move teeth around at an age when we'll still have a lot of growth ahead of us seems...like jumping the gun perhaps. Our dentist told me that if a child had a crowded mouth at a younger age and we were to use the ALFs, that it might be possible to expand the maxilla and mandible enough so that when the adult teeth did come in, there would be plenty of room and there wouldn't be any need for braces. The problem isn't usually that the teeth are just "crooked" but that the face is too narrow and there isn't enough room for all of the (adult) teeth to come in straight (including wisdom teeth.) I'm considering having my younger children examined now to possibly expand if necessary and hopefully skip the braces. I would never put braces on a child with baby teeth; from what I've seen, it almost always results in the need for braces again at some point. And again, all braces do is move teeth around in the bone, they don't address the actual structure of the cranial bones which is what functional orthodontics addresses.