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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Contained a little thing about his new book "The Baby Sleep Book", and in the email, it says...<br><br>
"Babies don't automatically know how to sleep through the night; they need to be taught"...<br><br>
HUH?!? I mean, I'm past the baby days with my little guy (he's 27 mos now), but crazy enough, he is sleeping 8 hours straight most nights and I never trained him to do anything. I don't know, I haven't read the book and I should before I judge, but that just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just grumpy tonight. Please tell me Dr. Sears isn't into sleep training now.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>luvmyfamily</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Contained a little thing about his new book "The Baby Sleep Book", and in the email, it says...<br><br>
"Babies don't automatically know how to sleep through the night; they need to be taught"...<br><br>
HUH?!? I mean, I'm past the baby days with my little guy (he's 27 mos now), but crazy enough, he is sleeping 8 hours straight most nights and I never trained him to do anything. I don't know, I haven't read the book and I should before I judge, but that just rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I'm just grumpy tonight. Please tell me Dr. Sears isn't into sleep training now.</div>
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I got it too...and thought that as well. I don't think he is into sleep training,and I like you have an older child (6) who sleeps 11 hours and has for years..........(don't ask me about my toddler though, no answers there LOL). I think with him, overall he is great, and I agree with his information, but there are points of his you have to pick and choose or take with a grain of salt.<br>
In his Baby Book, I found overall it was informative and great...but I was bugged about how easily he suggested that vaccinations are, do them etc.........personally we do vaccinate-delayed and selectively. With much thought, fear, concern, research, etc.....his statements seemed liked, oh just follow what your doctor says. It just rubbed me the wrong way. I'd likely assume this could be similar? I'd like to read it though, if for nothing more than a good laugh....all I can do in my current sleep deprived state. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wild.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wild">
 

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I think what he means is that babies learn by example.<br>
Babies know it is time to sleep when they wake up and see that mom and dad are sleeping.<br>
(not that it doesnt take a long time to sink in )<br>
Joline
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I guess it's annoying because for at least 18 long months, my ds didn't sleep much at all, and I had many moments of second guessing whether or not I should be helping him learn to sleep, and everything AP just said to trust him and follow his cues. I did that and I'm really starting to see that it does really happen the way it's supposed to, well most nights anyway<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> So I shouldn't even think more about it. But I just don't want other new, tired moms to read that and buy into the sleep training thing. I think you're probably right though - just take what you can use and leave the rest.
 

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I agree....I am doing exactly that scenario with my second daughter who is 19 mos now............no sleep........my oldest was the same, but by age 2 she was fine.... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I think there are a lot of ways to help a baby learn to sleep through the night that don't involve "sleep training" in the Ferber sense, though, and I suspect that Dr. Sears is advocating those other methods.<br><br>
For example, babies aren't born knowing the difference between night and day. We teach them by having a different environment at night, keeping the room dark, being quieter at night, lying down with them, not encouraging night play, etc.<br><br>
The biggest thing that's made a difference for my baby's sleep is putting her down when she isn't *quite* asleep, and then patting her and soothing her the last little bit to sleep while she's in bed. That's made her much more able to soothe herself at night if she wakes briefly and isn't hungry. Again, I'm teaching her, but it's not "sleep training."
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Rivka5</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The biggest thing that's made a difference for my baby's sleep is putting her down when she isn't *quite* asleep, and then patting her and soothing her the last little bit to sleep while she's in bed. That's made her much more able to soothe herself at night if she wakes briefly and isn't hungry. Again, I'm teaching her, but it's not "sleep training."</div>
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Oh boy, my ds wouldn't go for this for a minute! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> He was very high-needs though... That's one reason I'm so sensitive about sleep training, because if I had ever tried anything like that with my son (not patting, but ferberizing or anything similar, which I wouldn't have ever done), it would have seriously caused him some major distress. I think I might have tried the patting to sleep thing, but he would react like "um, excuse me...what are you trying to pull exactly? I think not!" Ah... those days - it's funny that they are now a memory<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>johub</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think what he means is that babies learn by example.<br>
Babies know it is time to sleep when they wake up and see that mom and dad are sleeping.<br>
(not that it doesnt take a long time to sink in )</div>
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I agree - everything else I've read of his really promotes co-sleeping, which is pretty much "teaching" them to sleep by example. I've found even when we are trying to get ds to go to sleep at night, we instinctively close our eyes and pretend to go to sleep. He actually falls asleep much faster if we both lie down with him like we are all going to bed. I can't imagine Dr. Sears ever promoting sleep training as in CIO or anything even close.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>moonmama22</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I agree - everything else I've read of his really promotes co-sleeping, which is pretty much "teaching" them to sleep by example. I've found even when we are trying to get ds to go to sleep at night, we instinctively close our eyes and pretend to go to sleep. He actually falls asleep much faster if we both lie down with him like we are all going to bed. I can't imagine Dr. Sears ever promoting sleep training as in CIO or anything even close.</div>
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I feel like Dr sears is on our side too- i can't imagine him promoting sleep training in any way.I've gotten alot of reinforcement from him.One of my friends dd's actually is a patient of his and she says he is fantastic.
 

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Defending Dr. Sears here...<br><br>
I think you may be thinking differently than what he goes into example as. I have not read his new book, but have all the others.<br><br>
Anyway he goes into example "you need to teach babies to sleep" as in you can't lay some babies down and expect them to close their eyes and fall asleep. He gives examples on teaching your babe to fall asleep, rocking, nursing, slinging and etc.. this is in most of his "baby books"<br><br>
I'm only speaking from example, we have a high needs baby here and there were plenty, and still are times our ds will not sleep, if he sleeps over 1 1/2 hr's during the day it's a blessing. My dh and I always have to "get him to sleep" meaning my dh has to bounce him in his arms and wait for him to be fully asleep and then puts him in a swing (which he is outgrowing and we don't know what to do). I nurse him to sleep in our bed and I have to wait until he is in a deep sleep and then carefully creep out of the room, this works 1/2 the time.<br><br>
So in short I don't believe he is describing "sleep training".. just using the phrasing to help mom's like me to understand babe's don't fall asleep like us, or older children
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Originally Posted by Rivka5<br>
The biggest thing that's made a difference for my baby's sleep is putting her down when she isn't *quite* asleep, and then patting her and soothing her the last little bit to sleep while she's in bed. That's made her much more able to soothe herself at night if she wakes briefly and isn't hungry. Again, I'm teaching her, but it's not "sleep training."</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Oh boy, my ds wouldn't go for this for a minute! He was very high-needs though... That's one reason I'm so sensitive about sleep training, because if I had ever tried anything like that with my son (not patting, but ferberizing or anything similar, which I wouldn't have ever done), it would have seriously caused him some major distress. I think I might have tried the patting to sleep thing, but he would react like "um, excuse me...what are you trying to pull exactly? I think not!" Ah... those days - it's funny that they are now a memory</td>
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Exactly! LOL. NOt all babies are that easy. My daughter now would scream bloody murder and does when I attempt that. This poster's words said it all! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>luvmyfamily</strong></div>
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"Babies don't automatically know how to sleep through the night; they need to be taught"...<br></div>
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I don't believe in sleep training in the <i>Ferber</i> sense.....but I do think that babies need to be taught how to self sooth and fall to sleep on thier own.<br><br>
We co -slept with DD#1 (part in our bed, part in a co-sleeper next to me), but as soon as she slept longer stretches at night (like 4-5 hours) we moved her to her crib in her room. Up until that point I always let her fall asleep on her own nursing, rocking, what have you, and then put her in her co-sleeper next to me. If she woke, I always comforted her, sometimes letting her fall asleep with me in bed. After a while though I always put her back in the co-sleeper. I did this because I wanted her used to it, but close to me so I could quickly respond to her needs. Once she got used to knowing mom would always be there if she needed me, she started sleeping longer and sounder, until she really did't need me any more. She would stir in the night, open her eyes, maybe even whine a little, but go right back to sleep on her own. In fact, she woke way less in her room than when she was next to me. Probably because I mistook her brief awakenings and stirring as cues that she wanted to nurse.<br>
I will be doing pretty much the same thing with her baby sister.<br><br>
I have a friend who never helped her son learn to fall asleep on his own. They had this big elaborate routine wich involved a last feeding, dancing in the dark for up to 30 mins, rocking and then when they thought he was really *out* try to lay him in his bed. If he woke they would start all over.<br>
He is now almost 3 and they are still pretty much doing this. Its ridiculous. And he still wakes up at least twice a night, and can't go back to sleep without one of them patting him and singing or dancing him or something.<br><br>
My DD sleeps 12 hours straight (since 15 mos old) and never cries for me unless she's sick or has a bad dream.<br><br>
Babies and small children all wake up briefly at night, and it's the parenting that they recieve that teaches them what to do. If they always nurse to sleep, then they will still expect that. If it's rocking or just being in your arms or whatever. It's up to you to find a gentle balance that you feel comfrotable with, and every child id different, just as every family dynamic is different.<br>
I never sleep well when a baby is next to me because I am a really heavy sleeper otherwise, and can't sleep heavily with the baby out of rear of rolling on her or something. I really do belive that part of a parents job is to teach your baby how to basically "survive" on thier own, just as almost all other animals on earth do. Good parenting is finding the right way to do it in a way and at a time when your baby is ready. That's what I think Dr. Sears means by this statement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>caligirl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't believe in sleep training in the <i>Ferber</i> sense.....but I do think that babies need to be taught how to self sooth and fall to sleep on thier own.... I really do belive that part of a parents job is to teach your baby how to basically "survive" on thier own, just as almost all other animals on earth do. Good parenting is finding the right way to do it in a way and at a time when your baby is ready. That's what I think Dr. Sears means by this statement.</div>
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I respect that you might need to teach your baby to fall asleep on her own because YOU need her to sleep longer (and if that's something that helps your family, then I'm not saying that's a bad thing), but I don't believe that a baby "needs" to be taught to self sooth before he or she is ready, or even while he or she IS a baby. I don't think they have to be taught at all actually - they will just do it when they are ready. My son, very high-needs from day one, was always nursed to sleep, every single time. He is now 27 mos and falls asleep at night without nursing (even though we're still nursing), and if he wakes in the night (we cosleep), he falls back to sleep by himself. And I did absolutely nothing to encourage this. Now 27 mos might seem old to some, and there were nights I thought he would never reach this milestone on his own, but he's doing things on his own time. I just think the whole concept of training a baby to sleep just feels very wrong to me. I realize that my only perspective is my own child, but any type of training like that would have really stressed both of us out. Maybe if I had a mellower baby, I would have a totally different view.
 

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I have to agree with you luvmyfamily. we all learn to fall back asleep eventually.I still nurse dd to sleep or at least close to it ,and then say "go to sleep now baby" and she does.Sometimes she asks to sleep in her own bed and sometimes in our bed. It's all good with me and she sleeps pretty well these nights (knock on wood).i don't think it has much to do with my nighttime parenting. i feel it is just a natural progression of time.I get plenty of sleep, but even when i didn't, i realized i was fine without 8 hours a night!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>luvmyfamily</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I respect that you might need to teach your baby to fall asleep on her own because YOU need her to sleep longer (and if that's something that helps your family, then I'm not saying that's a bad thing), but I don't believe that a baby "needs" to be taught to self sooth before he or she is ready, or even while he or she IS a baby.</div>
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Who <i>dosen't</i> need thier baby to sleep longer?...............<br><br>
A lot of the posts I see here on this board are parents needing help getting thier child to do just this, or even parents at thier wits end because thier child <i>won't</i>.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>caligirl</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Who <i>dosen't</i> need thier baby to sleep longer?...............<br><br>
A lot of the posts I see here on this board are parents needing help getting thier child to do just this, or even parents at thier wits end because thier child <i>won't</i>.</div>
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We <i>all</i> need more sleep. We have this forum to give advice and tips that work (<i>NOT</i> to teach how to train your child to do anything), and to hug one another through it. We're not actually thinking we can come here for a magic bullet, so to speak, that will fix our sleep issues. Ideas are one thing, thinking we can train or coax our children to do anything they're not ready for yet isn't why we're here.<br><br><br>
Luvmyfamily said:
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I respect that you might need to teach your baby to fall asleep on her own because YOU need her to sleep longer (and if that's something that helps your family, then I'm not saying that's a bad thing), but I don't believe that a baby "needs" to be taught to self sooth before he or she is ready, or even while he or she IS a baby. I don't think they have to be taught at all actually - they will just do it when they are ready.</td>
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I totally agree mama. It's <i>one</i> thing to be sleep deprived and such, we usually just lament over it and find ways to cope....but <i>another</i> to try and make/teach your child to sleep more.<br><br><br>
ETA: A few weeks ago I was at a BF week conference event that Dr. Jack Newman was speaking at regarding breastfeeding toddlers, and he very simply stated, "Children/Babies <b>cannot</b> self sooth. That's why they have parents."<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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My kids slept through the night when they were ready to. I did not have to train them into it, they grew into the ability themselves.
 

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Another mom here whose kids never had to be "taught" to fall asleep on their own, and yet managed to do it anyway. And managed to sleep through the night without any effort on my part.<br>
Joline
 

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Just piping in to thank all the moms who've let us know that their kids did eventually "learn" to sleep on their own. Our schedules and convenience are not our kids. I think what I always need is more patience - and the support of other moms. My DD keeps surprising me with how well she does if I can just stay out of the way and give her support and example, instead of "teaching". Thanks.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>my2girlsmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">ETA: A few weeks ago I was at a BF week conference event that Dr. Jack Newman was speaking at regarding breastfeeding toddlers, and he very simply stated, "Children/Babies <b>cannot</b> self sooth. That's why they have parents."<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> Love this! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Very true.
 
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