[changingseasons]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rainbow_mandala</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15800128"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't mean to be so fiesty about this, I'm just very passionate about health and it disturbs me to see pregnant women talking about this like it's no big deal, like they're talking about the weather or going for a walk.</div>
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Well, I have to disagree with you. If you're a responsible adult that can drink in moderation, I do think it's no big deal. How do you think humans survived this long? Alcohol has been around for as long as people have, I'm sure, just like every other type of fermented food.<br><br>
Do you limit other <span style="text-decoration:underline;">natural</span> food/plant based toxins in your diet? Like phytic acid, salicylates, nitrates, glutamates, etc? And I'm not talking about processed food with these things added- I'm talking about the natural occurrence of these chemicals in food.<br><br>
And yes- if you really wanted to, you could drastically reduce your chemical exposure. But for me, I'll take some exposure and live in my comfortable home with central heat, formaldehyde-containing furniture, possible heavy-metal containing dishes, etc. Is that selfish of me not to go live in the wood and live on nuts and berries while I'm pregnant?<br><br>
Bottom line- it's a personal choice. It's fine for you to lay out facts and give your opinion, but it's not ok to call people selfish for doing something that many people consider a normal/healthy part of their life.

 

[Grayson's Mom]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>segrau</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15800265"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's actually 100% wrong. Multiple studies have proven that even a small amount of nicotine is harmful, whereas all the Fetal Alcohol Syndrome studies are on babies whose mothers were alcoholics. In Europe, no one thinks twice about having a glass of wine with dinner during pregnancy, even in the first trimester. I self-limited to one glass of wine/one beer per week while pg with DS, but that was mostly because of American reaction to drinking while pregnant. We've gone WAY overboard in this country. They don't have these problems in Europe, except with alcoholics, yet we Americans think we know better and can improve on moderation. My midwife's advice was, "If you can feel the effects of the alcohol, so can the baby. Limit yourself to that."<br><br>
There are many documented benefits to drinking in moderation, and NO studies on moderate to light drinking during pregnancy. I think in this country we allow ourselves to worry unnecessarily over things that are unproven.<br><br>
Now, I'm off to go enjoy some salmon sashimi for lunch!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"></div>
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I completely agree with this!!! I drank probably 1/2 glass of wine with my first pregnancy. 2nd pregnancy probably 4 glasses of wine, drank during the last trimester. 3rd pregnancy, after the 1st trimester I had a glass of wine about every other week. This is my 4th pregnancy and I am 13 weeks now. I have a wedding to go to this week and I CAN NOT WAIT to have a glass of wine at that wedding.<br><br>
A good book that has helped me to not feel the guilt that our society has laid on pregnant women indulging in an occational glass of wine or beer is <a href="http://www.ninaplanck.com/books.html" target="_blank">Real Food for Mother and Baby</a>. Great book.

 

[shoefairy3]

I'll have a glass of wine here and there. I dont think i've had more than one total this whole pregnancy

 

[grassisgreener1334]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>segrau</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15800265"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My midwife's advice was, "If you can feel the effects of the alcohol, so can the baby. Limit yourself to that."</div>
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I'm not sure you should follow your midwife's advice. Here's a quote from the Mayo Clinic:<br><br>
"When you drink alcohol, it enters your bloodstream and can reach your developing fetus by crossing the placenta. Because a fetus metabolizes alcohol more slowly than an adult does, your developing baby's blood alcohol concentrations are higher than those in your body. The presence of alcohol can impair optimal nutrition for your baby's developing tissues and organs and can damage brain cells."<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">There are many documented benefits to drinking in moderation, and NO studies on moderate to light drinking during pregnancy. I think in this country we allow ourselves to worry unnecessarily over things that are unproven.</td>
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Hmm, not so sure about that, either: "The behavioural effects observed indicate maternal alcohol consumption has influenced, possibly permanently, the functioning of the brain and CNS of the fetus and infant. These effects are observed at low levels of maternal alcohol consumption (5-6 units per week) and this raises questions regarding the 'safe' level of alcohol during pregnancy."<br><br>
[Hepper, P.G. Report on Prenatal Exposure to Alcohol, 1999]

 

[grassisgreener1334]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15800296"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Bottom line- it's a personal choice. It's fine for you to lay out facts and give your opinion, but it's not ok to call people selfish for doing something that many people consider a normal/healthy part of their life.</div>
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It is a selfish choice, imo, because there is no need to introduce toxins when you don't have to...when it's typically done solely as a form of pleasure, not for any type of basic need.

 

[changingseasons]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rainbow_mandala</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15800777"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It is a selfish choice, imo, because there is no need to introduce toxins when you don't have to...when it's typically done solely as a form of pleasure, not for any type of basic need.</div>
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Well, I guess I'm selfish then. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"> I even eat refined sugar on occasion, purely because I feel like it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes"> Definitely no basic need there, and refined sugar certainly isn't "good" for the baby either. And I eat refined vegetable oils, also purely for pleasure. Having that kind of omega-6 imbalance isn't healthy for my body either. (And obviously, if it's not good for my body, it's not good for baby.) Selfish, selfish, selfish.<br><br>
Alcohol isn't a toxin. It is a naturally fermented food product. Maybe that's where we're having an issue here. Overconsumption of alcohol CAN cause damage in your body, just like overconsumption of almost <span style="text-decoration:underline;">anything</span> can. M.O.D.E.R.A.T.I.O.N.

 

[grassisgreener1334]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15800856"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, I guess I'm selfish then. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"> I even eat refined sugar on occasion, purely because I feel like it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes"> Definitely no basic need there, and refined sugar certainly isn't "good" for the baby either. And I eat refined vegetable oils, also purely for pleasure. Having that kind of omega-6 imbalance isn't healthy for my body either. (And obviously, if it's not good for my body, it's not good for baby.) Selfish, selfish, selfish.<br><br>
Alcohol isn't a toxin. It is a naturally fermented food product. Maybe that's where we're having an issue here. Overconsumption of alcohol CAN cause damage in your body, just like overconsumption of almost <span style="text-decoration:underline;">anything</span> can. M.O.D.E.R.A.T.I.O.N.</div>
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Hey, call yourself what you will, I'm just giving my perspective.<br><br>
Also, it's very easy to overconsume alcohol, especially with a fetus inside of you.

 

[MamaLea]

Well, I'm late to this party. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
I just want to add a few things. Susun Weed whom I consider to be one of the foremost authorities on health and herbal remedies recommends in her book The Childbirth Year consuming small amounts of whiskey, in the first trimester, to stop miscarriage contractions. She says it slows the uterus. I trust she has the baby's health in mind since health is her life's work.<br>
Also I am pretty sure a couple thousand years ago, most people drank wine in liu of water because the water was nasty and unfit for consumption. So they fermented grapes. I'm pretty sure this must have included pregnant women.<br><br>
My first pregnancy I had 2 glasses of wine. Once i found out I was pregnant. Before that, I had been to a wedding. My second I think i had 2 or 3. Don't remember, don't think it matters all that much.

 

[~Katie~]

Hello everyone! I'm posting a gentle reminder to please keep the original post in mind when replying and please be constructive when controversial topics are discussed in order to maintain a friendly and respectful atmosphere. If a post is concerning to you, please PM me and avoid taking direct issue in the thread itself. Thank you very much <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[dislocator3972]

I work with a lot of families trying (generally unsuccessfully) to cope with FASD behaviors. They are so, so hard. No matter how much I'd love the taste of a beer, I am absolutely unwilling to risk putting my family into that risk category.<br><br>
FASD isn't something you can learn to deal with. An FASD baby will have a chaotic life and struggle to make healthy decisions every single day. I shouldn't say that in absolute terms, because of course everyone is different, but I've never seen it present differently.<br><br>
Do I occasionally have a drink with HFCS? Yes. Are there risks? yes, but nothing like the risks of FASD. Do I eat the freshest available vegetables whether they're organic or not? Yes, again the consequences are NOTHING like FASD.<br><br>
With my last pregnancy I CRAVED margaritas. I sucked limes, put salt on my rim and drank sweet non-alcoholic things. It didn't fit the craving but it got me through. This time, with this job, my heart just breaks when I hear about someone drinking during pregnancy. I have NO judgment for anyone here, but a part of me does seriously worry. Sure, lots of healthy babies have been born to women who had a few drinks here and there. But lots of not-healthy babies have been born to women who followed all the rules to the best of their ability. If my baby were born with a condition that I could have prevented, I would really struggle with that. As would the child. Whenever their FASD behaviors got them in to some kind of trouble, they'd wonder why their mom couldn't wait 9 months. As would I.<br><br>
I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm just trying to explain my point of view. From where I stand, the risks could not outweigh the benefits more.

 

[gentlecowgirl]

My head is spinning too. I grew up the oldest in a family that took in foster kids. We had over 100 kids in our home. Many were addicted to crack and had severe FAS and severe disabilitys. MY family is also European first generation immigrants.<br><br>
I drink very moderately while pregnant. I do not understand the scare tactics in this country around mature moderate alcohal consumption and I have lived my life with the truth of FAS. There is a massive difference between binge drinking and moderate drinking and I am mature enough to know the difference and if any man knocked a glass out of my hand I would be beyond furious.<br>
I also raise almost all of my food including all meat that I consume. I work damn hard and yes I have no shame about an occasional sip of wine with my gorgeous feast of a meal and my big gorgeous belly.

 

[kaPOW!]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Lyss</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15797747"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So, I'm still in the first tri - either 12w3d or 12w. And I really want a glass of wine.<br><br>
I've had two beers this pregnancy.<br><br>
I didn't drink at all with my DD, and maybe had 4-5 glasses of wine or beer when pregnant with DS. I see a lot of conflicting info, but a great deal of it says no alcohol at all in the first tri.<br><br>
This seems a little over-cautious to me. Really? A glass of wine is forbidden in the first tri?<br><br>
Anyone want to weigh in? I don't have a problem abstaining. I just think a glass of wine would taste good and be relaxing. I can't imagine it's worse than, say, a diet coke?</div>
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Maybe pour your husband a glass and have a sip of his?<br><br>
I'm personally not going to bother, but that is easy for me to say because it's not something that's on my mind at all. Probably because I've been going to bed around 8pm lol

 

[grassisgreener1334]

I would like to add something real quick that has come up for me while reading this thread: there's a difference between rationalizing something and having true awareness about it. I'm not trying to be rude, just sharing what I've noticed, in case it helps anyone...

 

[echospiritwarrior]

I have already answered the OP with how I feel, and I have a gentle question for rainbow.<br><br>
I understand you have been deeply impacted with your work with FASD and you have a unique perspective. Do you think a few drinks (say five just to be more specific) all AFTER the first trimester could lead to anything along the FASD?<br><br>
And about not following midwife's advice. Not all midwives are created equally. There are plenty of recommendations certain midwives would give that I would no way follow! Of course I've chosen a midwife I would certainly consider all of her reccomendations, but I still will evaluate each situation and not just blindly follow.

 

[BunnyMcFluff]

I've had a lot of alcohol cravings during this pregnancy, too. I'm not indulging, but have found lots of things to satisfy the cravings.<br><br>
Old Milwaukee (snicker, I know) has a very decent tasting non-alcoholic beer. It's much better even than Buckler's, which is a pretty high end import NA. I am suprised at how good it is.<br><br>
For margarita cravings, frozen lime pops with a teeny sprinkle of sea salt do the trick. Also, I occasionally enjoy a virgin hand mixed bloody mary (only occasionally though, because the heartburn is a BEAR).<br><br>
I've not found anything that subs well for wine, though.

 

[grassisgreener1334]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>echospiritwarrior</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15803804"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have already answered the OP with how I feel, and I have a gentle question for rainbow.<br><br>
I understand you have been deeply impacted with your work with FASD and you have a unique perspective. Do you think a few drinks (say five just to be more specific) all AFTER the first trimester could lead to anything along the FASD?</div>
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Did you mean to ask dislocator this instead? She's the one who's worked with families impacted by FASD. I just speak from intuition and information I've gathered from different sources.

 

[changingseasons]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>BunnyMcFluff</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15803860"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Old Milwaukee (snicker, I know) has a very decent tasting non-alcoholic beer. It's much better even than Buckler's, which is a pretty high end import NA. I am suprised at how good it is.</div>
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"Non-alcoholic" beer does have alcohol in it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> So you ARE in fact drinking alcohol during pregnancy, even if it is a very small amount.

 

[BunnyMcFluff]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>changingseasons</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15804304"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">"Non-alcoholic" beer does have alcohol in it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> So you ARE in fact drinking alcohol during pregnancy, even if it is a very small amount.</div>
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Here's hoping my baby isn't born with 2 heads, then. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">

 

[echospiritwarrior]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rainbow_mandala</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15804280"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Did you mean to ask dislocator this instead? She's the one who's worked with families impacted by FASD. I just speak from intuition and information I've gathered from different sources.</div>
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oops! yes, sorry!

 

[dislocator3972]



I have already answered the OP with how I feel, and I have a gentle question for rainbow.<br><br>
I understand you have been deeply impacted with your work with FASD and you have a unique perspective. Do you think a few drinks (say five just to be more specific) all AFTER the first trimester could lead to anything along the FASD?<br>
QUOTE]<br><br>
My gut tells me that a few drinks towards the end of pregnancy wouldn't cause FASD or FAE. But I have no data on that. I have never heardof or seen a study that addressed an extremely limited alcohol consumption. Rationally, I can see that once the organs are formed the risk should be greatly reduced. But the brain is growing so RAPIDLY from conception to age 5 that I can also see how even a very minor exposure could have much larger consequences.<br><br>
But that's only my gut, and my gut tells me lots of things that are very clearly wrong. My gut tells me that a baby's head should not be able to fit out of a vagina and I've personally experienced that very thing happening.<br><br>
Personally, I don't risk anything more than a sip during pregnancy. Not even a glass of wine to test out BH contractions at the end. But that's just me.