[Greenie]

We don't drink, but we do smoke herb. I perosnally feel like it's much safer and more nataral than most things that people put into their bodies. Also, SO goes to the Native American Church, and uses Peyote as a medicine and a religous sacriment. In the past we have used Mushrooms, and though I don't see taking them again for a very long time, I don't think that they're bad.

What I want to know, is how do you explain to your children the difference between drugs (Cocaine, Heroin, Alcohol, Meth, Etc.) and using something for medical/spiritual reasons (Marijuana, Peyote, Mushrooms). Do you address it at all? What is an appropriate age to talk about it?

SO wants to take our child to Church with him, and give him some 'medicine' if he wants to have some. I don't see it as harmful at all. I just see the need to address it before it becomes a greater confusion or issue.

I don't mean to offend anyone. I am just very curious.

 

[SneakyPie]

I don't know how old your son is, but I personally find religious sacrament to be a little too much for most children. Communion, being "born again," speaking in tongues, dedicating one's life, rituals or substance-use that helps alter consciousness -- I and many of my friends from various traditions were exposed to religious ritual early and as I look back I feel that a lot of these experiences are made or had by adults and are too much for children to process, even when caring adults are there to guide them. I would say no myself. I think that addresses the issue of "how to explain the difference" by bringing it up later, or talking about it as something adults make choices about (aka, neither the good NOR the bad is for children).

 

[Chanley]

First of all, if it is truly medicine then it is never used in a recreational aspect. I have yet to see herione, white powder cocaine used in a religious context.

I do not see any reason for a child to need spiritual medicine (which is what you are talking about). They are spiritually whole until society screws them up. By the time society screws them up, they are old enough to make thier own informed decision about pot, peyote or other medicinal plant based drug use.

I think that if you are using these drugs in a responsible manner, then you will nto have to explain this to your child because they will never be exposed to them until they come of age. When does that happen? I would imagine somewhere in the teens. You know your own child best.

Hallucinogenic drugs can be devastating for young children and I have no bias against them for adults. CHildren already live with one foot in the spirit world and another here on earth. in my opinion, that is a mute point. Peyote trips are really hard, very hard for reasoning adults. Can you imagine how scared a child might be on a "bad trip"? would you want to do that to your child?

Now marijuana, the only time I can even imagine a child needing that kind of medicine would be if the child had cancer or was in severe pain. I dont think this is the case with your child. Even then, I would NEVER EVER let them inhale smoke. Adults sometimes self medicate with pot for emotional issues. Most children do not suffer from depression or anxiety like adults. IF your child does, you should find out WHY rather than just running for medicine.

Ohh and I do not think that giving a child any drugs is a good idea from a legal stand point. Children are notoriously open and will share info with anyone. If a social worker found out that you were giving your child these types of substances, I have absolutely no doubt in my head that you would be in jail and your kid would be in the custody of the state. ALSO mentioning these kind of things on the internet may border on reckless.

Once you have kids, you have too much to lose by saying too much to the wrong people. If you think the internet is anonymous, you are sorely mistaken and naive. be careful and most of all BE SMART.

CHildren don't need drugs, they are whole. Adults can sometimes need a reminder of the spiritworld because we are no longer children.

 

[SneakyPie]

*

 

[Vermillion]

Wow, Chanley... what an excellent post! I have nothing too add but

 

[Greenie]

Oh, I agree. I was just wondering how other parents deal. Baby isn't born yet, this is just a very big issue, and I want to think about it all I can. I've been to a couple of Ceremonies, but I couldn't handle the taste of the peyote. Super gross!

Quote:

I think that if you are using these drugs in a responsible manner, then you will nto have to explain this to your child because they will never be exposed to them until they come of age. When does that happen? I would imagine somewhere in the teens. You know your own child best.

That's EXACTLY how I feel. I had friends in middle school who smoked pot (I was never really interested until I was 19) so that's more what I'm thinking about. They get exposed through their peers, and it's that I'm most worried about.

But, it's years down the road, so I guess I have plenty of time to think about it.

 

[Chanley]

Greenie,

If you establish an honest relationship from the get go, you will not have to worry about these things as much.

My dh's family has lots of addiction issues. My grandfather died of alcoholism and there is so much pain. My best friend from highschool has been killing herself with heroine for the last 13 years. She is in BAD shape. Much of my parenting fortitude comes from a desire to keep my children from choosing these paths of destruction. I cannot control thier personalities or thier choices but I CAN control my behavior in regards to teh relationship I establish with them. Should they choose a path of destruction, then I can go to bed at night knowing that I did everything in my power to fill thier emotional needs and it is thier choice.

I keep filling those little cups so that they never have to feel empty. I also NEVER lie to my kids and NEVER make them lie. Attachment parenting is a big part of my raising thoughtful responsible adults agenda.

Listen to your heart and keep your babies safe.

Peyote is an endangered species. I hope the folks who are brewing brews at your church are doing so with great respect. Many of the natural stands of peyote have been wiped out by thrill seekers. They grow REALLY slow and you need lots to make a brew. I have to keep the entheo environmentalist in me just had say that.

Take care and trust your intuition.

 

[JessicaS]

In addition to what Chanley has said I do not think children should be given peyote, even in a religious ceremony.

In my tribe it was used (traditionally...we do not use it now) for dream quests when someone was a young adult. It is not something for children IMO...I pretty much agree with Chanley on that.

 

[Greenie]

Yeah, Chanley, that's true for us too. SO's Grandfather died from alcoholism. His brother is a HUGE alcoholic (The last time he visited, he strangled SO b/c he wouldn't fight him) and his cousin too. He's VERY Anti-Alcohol in our house. I'm worried that this attitude might push our child into drinking b/c it's not allowed.

The people that he goes to church with are ver respectful of it. They are sure not to waste, and they buy it from responsible government-authorised growers. When the road-man goes and picks it, he doesn't pull from the root, he just cuts the top of the button off. It grows back that way.

My main concern in SO wanting to take the child with him to these things, is the fact that you're in a tipi for 12-14 hours. You can't get up and walk around. There are people 'getting well' (throwing up) and to explain that to my little one, I'm not so keen. I told him that I would go with him so that the little one can meet all of the people from his church, and he can see the tipi, and the fire, but for the actual sweat lodges and ceremonies, that he would have to count us out.

I'm just nervous. My little brother had a really bad problem with pills and shot himself in August. I'm just getting the paranoia, I think. Thanks for your insight.. I'm just nervous.

Being a mom is a big deal.

 

[Chanley]

Greenie,

I think once he sees a young child and how restless they are by nature, he will NOT want to put them in a tipi for that amount of time. I would just tell him that when the child is old enough to sit for that amount of time, you will talk about it.

Believe me, I have a hard time sitting still that long. Your kid will be pretty old before they can handle that kind of situation.

Just as I would not make my child try to sit through a board meeting for a major corporation, I would not make them sit through a religious ceremony for 12-14 hours. Heck, when we used to take our daughter to Mass, I used to spend more time outside on the steps with her than actually in the church.

As far as alcohol, I try to not have any hard fast rules for a child to really use against me by rebeling. Instead, we have an open dialogue. I would simply talk to the child when they ask about alcohol or are old enough to understand. Tell them how alcohol use has destroyed many loved ones lives. Be open, be honest and don't forget to tell them that alcoholism is hereditary. You get to make teh rules for your living environment, and a no alcohol policy is a good one. Just make it clear that you avoid it for those reasons. Be careful not to preach, just be matter of fact. Your child will grow to make thier own decisions you can just show them the right path and pray they choose it. Shame and fear are antithetical to an open honest relationship.

Breathe deep! This one is really much easier than it seems. Once you have your baby, so much will become clear to you and many of the roadblocks you see now will just be small pebbles in the big picture.

Now, since you are coming into the final weeks of your preg, Vaccination issues, sleeping arrangements and birth plans are FAR more daunting.

 

[Greenie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chanley Breathe deep! This one is really much easier than it seems. Once you have your baby, so much will become clear to you and many of the roadblocks you see now will just be small pebbles in the big picture. Now, since you are coming into the final weeks of your preg, Vaccination issues, sleeping arrangements and birth plans are FAR more daunting.

I sure hope so. I just get worried, and the way I was brought up was very weird and unconventional. Plus, every person is different, so even if I offered similar conditions to raising my child, they might not make the same decsions that I did. I was just taught quite scientifically about drugs, sex, etc. So, I knew the medical consequences, not the 'Just Say No' crap.

The Vaccination, sleeping, circumcision, and birth plans are already arranged. I'm not going to vax, or if he receives any, he will be several years old. I have a co-sleeper for the baby to be on bed level, so that I can just pull him close when he's ready to nurse. Not Circing. Etc.

I'm also going through old threads so that I can read about some of these issues that I worry about that others have already discussed. This was one that I didn't really see, so I asked about it. Thanks!!

 

[trmpetplaya]

nak

definitely, i wouldn't have my child sit through that long of a religious ceremony.... at least not for years! i just wanted to add that as long as you are open, honest and modeling moderation in all things (including eating, watching tv, etc) you shouldn't have issues with your child becoming an alcoholic, drug abuser (as opposed to just experimenting and talking to you about it), or lying to you about what he's doing when he hits the teen years.

my parents didn't drink at all - no booze in the house at all - and i didn't end up drinking to excess except for maybe four months my sophomore year of college...

love and peace.