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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ARRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHH<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Cuss.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="cuss"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bawling.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bawl"><br>
I am SO frustrated with my SON!!!<br>
ahhh..breathe liz breathe<br>
OK some background on us first-<br>
kiryn is 42 months old and very intellegent- talking at 12 months, asking why at 18months..but has failed to develop and sense of caution, empathy or emotional sensitivity.<br>
i just got my degree in child dev. and have read every book suggested on this board, how to talk, liberated parents, spirited child, ect...i have taken a child guidance class as part of my curriculum and have worked with many children in daycare settings, nanny jobs and obervational settings.<br>
MY CHILD IS NOT LIKE OTHER KIDS IVE KNOWN!<br>
Nothing WORKS...<br>
i cant figure what i did wrong- i BF for 2 1/2 years, co sleep, carried him in the sling till he was huge, ive tried every method for positive guidance and it never ceases his violence. it began at 10 months , him banging my friends daughter repeatedly with toys and laughing when shed cry..<br>
well 3 years later he still likes to hit and push just to laugh at someone crying. if anyone around him (i have a home daycare 3 kids and my DSS) if happily engaged in playing-constructing something, he HAS to run over and knock it down or grab part of it and flee. all of his behaviors are normal-to an extent but it is constant-he is too much..<br>
yesterday if when i really lost it<br><br>
We got this bunny about a month ago because i was hoping to try to develop DS's compasion, plus i grew up with animals, plus he has been begging for a pet. well he was SO SWEET to the rabbit up until about a week ago, he would hold it for hours being very gentle. then he started being rougher and rougher-we talked about it, limited his time ect- and yesterday OMG yesterday. was in the room with him, he was sitting on the couch holding the bunny and walked away for 2 min to help someone go potty and i walk back and he is<br><br>
breathe liz breathe<br><br>
standing on the rabbit- both feet, on the couch, dancing back and forth from foot to foot laughing.<br>
i saw red seriously<br>
i sent him to his room with a voice of a demons and kept him there mainly for his own protection. i checked out the rabbit and called my inlaws to talked me off the ledge ..i have never been so dissapointed in him ..i was sobbing.<br>
not only that, but i let him come out after a couple of hours and a long disscussion and<br>
-the rabbit is allowed to hop around the house all day, because i dont believe in caging animals-<br>
while a mother is picking up her child<br>
-me and her tlkatalktalk-<br>
he crawls under the chair where it is hiding grabs it by the neck and starts hitting it over the head.<br><br>
he ate dinner in his room alone last night<br><br>
then today after several hours of him BEGGING to hold the rabbit, i relented, sitting right next to him of course<br>
-good job kiryn, thats very gentle-<br>
well later i walk into the bedroom, and he is holding the bunny-he had caught it himself- and i watch him take it back behind his right shoulder and THROW it as hard as he could across the bed like a FREAKING FOOTBALL.<br>
so he ate dinner alone today again.<br>
let me just recount the rest of the events today<br>
he ran away in the grocery store- all the way to the other side , the HEB staff had to find him!<br>
he hit, threw toys at, and wreaked peoples projects COUNTLESS numbers of times.<br>
i am at my wits end<br>
completely<br>
i am taking him to a homipath- even though i dont believe in that stuff on friday because the next step is a perscription.<br>
anyone have a kid like this???<br>
i feel alone angry and sad
 

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Liz-<br>
First off <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">. You poor thing! I can't imagine how stressful this is for you. HAve you thought about allergies? I know certian types of allergies can cause kids to have behavioral problems. I know that I can NOT let my dd have drinks or yogurt w/ high fructose corn syrup in them. She goes NUTS. I don't know what it is limited to those two things but it is. Also I wish I had a copy of my friend's son's story. He was similar to your son. She couldn't "control" him. It was frustrating for her. Someone suggested that she take him to a chiropractor and almost instantly he was better. She says that he is a different kid.<br>
I hope someone has some better advice for you. Good Luck!
 

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Liz, I am beyond words here. I am feeling so much compassion for your situation. You sound like such an incredible mom, so caring and patient...I cannot imagine how upsetting this must be for you.<br><br>
I wish I had some brilliant words for you. I think starting with a homeopath is a great idea. I also think you need to find the bunny a new home.<br><br>
I will give it some more thought, your story just upset me so much (sorry, animal lover here) and I know how I would feel if my daughter (same age as your son) hurt an animal. I hope that it has something to do with boys just being physical and not understanding their own strength. Also, your son is soooo bright that sometimes that can be a real challenge in and of itself.<br><br>
I'll be back...sorry I wasn't of more help.
 

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Liz, one thing comes to mind (and I am NO expert)...<br><br>
Feingold Diet. There was an article about it in mothering. I have seen it work for my cousin's son. He's like a different kid. HE wasn't violent, but very aggressive, like adhd waiting to happen.<br><br>
I will look for a link, and get back to you. I know there is a .org for parents who use the diet. It takes out preservatives and other stuff.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
pam xo<br><br>
here's some links:<br><a href="http://www.feingold.org/" target="_blank">http://www.feingold.org/</a><br><br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-6-0/feingold.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/10-0-0/html...feingold.shtml</a>
 

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My first two thoughts beofre reading the replies:<br><br>
1. Feingold diet. I've heard of stories similar to yours being helped a lot with this diet.<br><br>
2. Find the bunny a new home. This is not punishment, but a natural consequnce (and more logical than eating dinner alone in his room) that is necessary for the safety of the rabbit.
 

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Liz, lots of <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">, what a difficult and stressing situation for you. Could it be that he is very jealous of your DSS? Seems to look for lots of attention and to get pleased by seeing something, someone smaller get hurt, seems very angry. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br>
Maybe you can try a session with a kid's therapist to find out where does this come from, and of course try the Feingold diet. Hope you can find quickly the best help, and first of all, don't blame yourself, you sound like a wonderful mom!
 

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You poor, poor woman.<br><br>
The bunny either needs a new home, or needs to be locked up for it's own protection. NOW.<br><br>
I also think there is something wrong with your son. I don't mean that in a "your kid's a psycho" way, but in a "he needs help, not punishment" way. I totally don't blame you for having him eat dinner alone, etc (you needed a time out for yourself, I'm sure by that point) but I do think this extends beyond a discipline issue. I'm betting your son has little control over how he's acting, doesnt' understand it at all, and time outs won't change anything.<br><br>
You do need help. Professional help. Lots of great suggestions here. My best wishes for some improvements. And PLEASE don't beat yourself up about your parenting. You have no control over a mixup in the wiring of your son's brain, or an imbalance in his neurochemistry. Many good suggestions here to start with...<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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I would seek professional help too. If your inner alarm is saying something is wrong, then it probably is. At his age, and considering it sounds like an ideal environment, it probably has an organic cause...anything from food allergies to a brain injury. I am NOT a professional, so keep that in mind with the advice, but I would be frightened too if my son began displaying that kind of activity.<br><br>
Please keep us updated on what happens. ds in only 20 months, but his dad had severe behavior problems as a kid and ds seems to be quite spirited too, so we might be down a similar road.<br><br>
btw, dh grew up to be the most gentle soul. The entire family was convinced that he would spend his adult life in jail if his behavior continued down the same path, they put him in therapy and changed his diet (to healthy organic stuff) and it made all the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
thank you for all your responses-<br>
i have to say that we eat about 80% organic, VERY LITTLE sugar, perservitives and dyes, almost everything i make is from scratch, so i doubt it is a diet issue. i<br>
f the homeopath dosnt work we are going to a therapist- im not too happy about this because we are pretty poor and its the most we can do to buy organic-takes up alot of budget-but we will find a way...does anyone have any suggestions as far as a therapist vs a phsyciatrist ect? i have no idea-never had to do this before, but i really dont want my kid put on drugs, but at the same time i would rather have him on drugs and be able to stand him again.<br>
its sad because i love him SO MUCH it hurts, but i really dont like him most of the time.<br>
i know we need to get rid of the rabbit, but i am trying to find a home for him rght now- and about that, i feel if that was all i did i would be missing the issue because i dont think i shouls be afraid of my own child to the point where i cant bring an animal into the house, or heck have another baby..i was having horrible visions of him attacking a baby if i have one..yikes that is scary.<br>
another thing- Kiryn is GREAT one on one, he is soooo sweet and nice. so i take him out one weekend a day and spend all day with him since it is the only time i can stand him. i know he is VERY jealous for my attention, but i have no choice, i have another son and i have to do the daycare thing because we need the money, but i give him SOOOOOO much attention during the day, that i feel sorry for my DSS cause he is always left to play since he is so NOT demanding. i taylor our daily activites to ones he likes... he tells me he wants everyone to go home...<br>
OH YEAH and i forgot to tell you what he said about WHY he jumped on the rabbit<br>
"because he wouldnt talk to me...he dosnt look at me anymore.."<br>
when i told him we were going to have to give away the rabbit he said<br>
"yes and now i can have a mousie"<br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"><br>
"NO you cannot have a mousie, if we give up the rabbit YOU will be getting NO PETS" -visions of mice squeezed to death-<br>
yikes
 

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I'd suggest that you contact some child therapists, and find out if they charge on a sliding scale. Also, if you have insurance, find out what it covers as far as mental health issues. If you have a pediatrician, a letter from him/her stating the need for therapy can often get you 100% coverage.<br><br>
I can't imagine how you must be feeling. I pray you find some answers and help, soon. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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I was also going to suggest the sliding scale thing that skellbelle mentioned.<br><br>
One other idea, you mentioned that you don't have much money, so I was wondering if you have any state sponsered medical insurance for kids. In Kansas, you don't even have to be all that low-income (I think it is $28K and lower...we are always SO much lower that I am not sure what the cap is) for your kids to qualify for health insurance. I know the amount you can make is higher than for any other type of assistance, and it can be used to supplement what insurance you do have to cover anything the existing insurance doesn't. (for the uninsured and under insured). So, if you don't have much income, he may qualify even if you don't. (have to be disabled or over 65 to get it for adults I think).<br><br>
Another idea - you might check with the local United Way or other community service organizations to see if they know of any programs that would be useful. I don't know much about what UW does, but I think they are focused on helping at-risk kids, so they might have some ideas for you.<br><br>
Psychiatrist vs Psychologist question: It really depends. If you think that talking it out would solve it, go with a psychologist. If you think it might have an organic cause and meds might be useful, along with therapy, then I would try a psychiatrist. It might be helpful to start with your pediatrician - at least get their opinion and then decide what feels right.<br><br>
Hang in there. I applaud you for seeking help now instead of just hoping it would go away like many parents would do. From what you said, untreated, this would just get to be a bigger problem and harder to treat.
 

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Don't totally discount diet. I know a kid who gets out of control eating organic eggs.<br><br>
It may still be an idea.
 

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I agree that you shouldn't discount the diet/nutrition idea. You'd be surprised what foods can trigger what kinds of reactions in some people. I know I was. For example, naturally ocurring salicylates can cause reactions... edited to add that it is almost unheard of for someone to be sensitive to ALL of these. It is recommended to cut them all out and then add them back in one at a time to see if there is a reaction.<br><br><span style="text-decoration:underline;">Salicylates</span><br>
Almonds<br>
Apples<br>
Apricots<br>
Berries (all)<br>
Cherries<br>
Chili powder<br>
Cider & cider vinegar (apples)<br>
Cloves<br>
Coffee<br>
Cucumbers & pickles<br>
Currants<br>
Grapes & raisins<br>
Nectarines<br>
Oranges<br>
Paprika<br>
Peaches<br>
Peppers (bell & chili)<br>
Plums, prunes<br>
Tangerines<br>
Tea<br>
Tomatoes<br>
Wine & wine vinegar (grapes)<br>
Oil of wintergreen (methyl salicylate)<br>
Rose hips or acerola (often found in vitamins)
 

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My son was exactly like that. I took him completely off of dairy and he is a different child. You will need to be dairy free for close to a month before it is all out of his system (some kids take less time, but don't give up before a month) People who knew my son before are amazed at him now.<br>
Kat
 

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I think he's three. A bright, boisterous, active three, but basically, three. He isn't yet really capable of seeing things from bunny's perspective - children this age who treat pets gently generally do so because they know that's what mom wants, and they want to please mom. Three year olds shouldn't be left alone with small pets. Your son has figured out that messing with the bunny means that he gets your attention, and that's what he wants.<br><br>
I think, too, that he may have figured out that you're displeased with him, and that makes him more excitable and likely to act out, because he's feeling unsure about you. It sounds like things are pretty stressful right now, and having the extra daycare kids around may make it more difficult. I can understand needing the money, but perhaps there are ways to make sure Kiryn knows he's not displaced. A special secret handshake, or a special place for him only - even just a corner of the room - or something.<br><br>
I'd also recommend lots of physical exercise, he sounds like a kid who needs a good run around the park every day, maybe twice day.<br><br>
Dar
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">"because he wouldnt talk to me...he dosnt look at me anymore.."</td>
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This sounds like something he could have said directly to you. He sounds like a 3 year-old who probably has a lot say (like my dd) and is looking for someone to listen (and when I say that I do realize how much it would take for you to constantly listen).<br><br>
Hours in time out is a whole lot for the offense, IMO. Here the cat goes outside and the child stays inside (I would get rid of the animal, too - I can't because it's not mine).<br><br>
Like Dar said, the negative attention will just add fuel. The times I can get myself to not say "be gentle" - just for approaching the cat - are the times my dd doesn't even go near the cat.<br><br>
I have a theory about why some children become aggressive even in the most loving, non-aggressive households. Unfortunately it's always met with "that's the most ridiculous thing ever." So if you're interested, PM me.
 

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I kind of agree with Dar. My friend's ds (3 and 1/2) will hit my ds (from the time he was a few days old and he's now 7 mos) every chance he gets and he will hit harder and harder if nobody reacts to the first one. In the beginning it totally freaked me out and I felt really angry towards him and wondered if there was something wrong with him. Now I see that it is pretty normal (i've seen other kids this age do similar things) and that he is otherwise a kind, loving child. he is just incredibly, incredibly jealous of my ds because his mom dotes on my ds (only b/c he's a little baby and she is really, really into little babies). What I have found works best in our situation (which I admit is not really the same as yours and so probably not helpful advice for you) is to look her ds right in the eye and tell him, without hysteria or hesitation, "we do not do that" and then remove my ds from his proximity.<br><br>
Anyway, I thought everybody's suggestions were really good. I hope you find something that helps.
 

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Liz, my heart goes out to you. It's hard to know whether this is a food issue, a developmental issue, or something else entirely. I hope you find some answers soon for you and your ds's sanity.<br><br>
My sister's middle child was very similar to what you are describing in your ds. My niece is now 14 and it has been a very interesting journey. I'd be happy to share her experiences, trials, and tribulations if you think it might give you some insight. It's a bit too much to post here, so please PM me if you want to "talk" about it.
 

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I agree that this situation could be many, many things. You need to start somewhere though, and start soon. First, please get rid of the bunny, for its sake. No matter what else you do (and that surely isn't the end of it), it will take time to change and in the meantime the bunny is really at risk. Frankly, I'm also a little worried about other children in your care. Seems like you need to figure out a way to NEVER leave your child unsupervised around anyone that can get hurt.<br><br>
Next, you need professional help. I would start with your ped., assuming that you have one. If not, then start by finding one. They can tell you whether this is "normal" (I don't think it is, but maybe, I'm not a professional) or warrents additional help. If you want to try diet, fine, but I wouldn't stop there. Get a dr. involved. They can also help you find a child thearapist in the area and make recommendations for other options.<br><br>
Finally, you shouldn't go this alone. Maybe your ped. can recommend a support group for you. At the very least, post here often so you don't feel alone and stranded.
 

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My mom is a counselor for Catholic Social Services. There is also Jewish Social Services. You do not have to be of that faith to use them - they are the ones that have the contracts with the public schools and the State, etc. They do a sliding fee, etc. I know my mom sees problems such as this and can give a lot of great information, including diet as mentioned above. She would also look into his intelligence - you mentioned he is very bright. Hurting animals is a huge red flag in children. My mom also said that she does refer people to specialists, etc. So, a counselor might be a great way to start.<br><br>
LeAnn
 
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