DS threw a rock at DD - DH spanked again

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Where was his protective instinct for the babe he hit?

I really hope you guys can go to councelling soon. This is getting bad. And it's terrible that DH can't see that his actions will cause so much more strife than is already there.

I'm so sorry.

what do you think he felt for the hours after he was spanked??

I'm not advocating spanking at ALL. but at least a cool down period *might* save the kid from a spanking. also he is likely not to be hit as many times or as hard if the parent has calmed down. I have seen some angry parents just WAIL on their kids

In my opinion, your dh needs to find a way to vent. I have been through a lot with my dh. He was raised in an atmosphere that was a far cry from AP. I think most of us have. We raise our children the best we can, and although I do not advocate spanking either, I do understand what page your dh is on. I don't think he is doing it because he doesn't care about you or the kids. I think he is searching for something that has an instant gratification. He believes that instilling a degree of fear in your ds will cause him to think twice before he does something. What he needs to realize is, any form of punnishment rarely has that affect. I read once that discipline should be directly linked to the action. Like, he was outside and threw a rock, so I would bring him in, and explain that he is not allowed to play outside for a while because his behavior was inappropriate and unfriendly. And mean it. Reconciliation is also a good tool. He should apologize to his sis specifically for throwing a rock. The important thing for your dh to remember is he very well may do it again. And your dh should also understand that unless he himself apologizes for spanking him, he is uprooting the very principles that you guys are trying to teach. But again, from my experience, it sounds like your dh needs a healthy place to vent. I have found in my fam (although we don't spank) when tempers start flaring, it usually has nothing to do with what's going on here. It's that someone is frustruated about something, and for whatever reason, they've been holding it in until they burst. What he could do to vent is a personal thing...my dh usually goes for a nice brisk walk, until he's ready to calmly and respectfully communicate. It took my dh a while to understand his anger. We all have it. If your dh is willing to make things work, he will have to be willing to accept the ideals you have about raising a family, spanking free. You in turn, need to be able to accept that your hubby has a hot temper, and figure out what you can do to help diffuse the situation. Just remember, you and your dh love each other, and you both love your children. Parenting and marriage is a two way street, and all needs must be fulfilled.

Thich Nhat Hahn (whose name I am probably misspelling) has a really good book on Anger (as well as book on tape/CD) that teaches some techniques to deal with Anger. We all have our own anger to deal with...and issues. This might help. You guys could listen to it together...and then work on the exercises.

Another suggestion would be to somehow try to validate the fear your DH was feeling when he saw your DD almost get hit.... validate it... by saying "I know how scary it must be to see DD almost get hurt." "That she could have lost her vision" (OK...my DH is an ophthalmologist and always going on about kids he sees in the ER). BUT then say, "But you and I both know that hitting him won't solve the problem." Perhaps you guys can work on some role plays on what some acceptable responses can be?? Practicing them may make your husband more likely to use them. Also consider other techniques that he could use that may be more instant gratification than normal GD methods... so like if he is going to lose it completely... put both DS and himself on a timeout. Telling a kid to go to his room is still instant gratification but not violent.

It sounds like it's a reaction rather than a philosophy which means that the two of you can work through it.

Hang in there--you've gotten some awesome suggestions here.

If you were my friend IRL and I knew your DH was continuing with spanking - and especially spanking when he "loses it" I would offer you a choice of coming to stay w/ me until you could find a lawyer & a place to go or of calling Department of Children & Families. I know this sounds harsh. I posted on your first thread about your DH spanking too. This sounds like it is escalating & based on what you have said, I don't see how it will improve without intervention. If you love your Dh and your child you will not wait for this to get worse.

I know what I'm suggesting is not easy - especially if you are in love with your husband. But your first responsibility is to protect your child.

I have a lot of empathy for both you and your dh. It's hard to parent, period. It's harder when there's stress (did you say in a previous thread that you've moved recently?) and when a child's behavior becomes very stressful for a parent. None of this makes spanking okay, but understanding is always a good place to start in addressing a problem.

In your shoes, I would share information regarding normal behavior and development in a child this age (Your Four Year Old is a great book, as an example). Then I would come up with a plan to address the behavior, in a way that is clear and consistent and that will be appealing to dh even if it is not exactly the way I would address it myself. The Secret of Parenting is a book that I think sometimes people who think of spanking or are new to GD find very helpful, and it's outlines clear and specific responses to behaviors. I would not ask dh to read it, but would read it and come up with a plan firm and clear enough for him (ideally with his input, but exluding spanking) that I am willing to follow also and let him know that this is what I expect to try and that we have to give it time to work. I would let him know, clearly, that I understand his concerns and take them seriously, that I empathize with how frustrated he is, and that I too want to find a way to make our home more peaceful. I would tell him that I do expect him to respect my beliefs about spanking, just as I respect his need for a more peaceful atmosphere in our home, and that I am willing to work hard with him to address the behaviors in a firm way but without spanking. IME, people are much more open to my point of view when I am able to understand and empathize with them (which means not criticizing them or trying to convince them that my way is better, but letting them know I understand and respect where they are coming from and at the same time letting them know what is unacceptable to me and what I am willing and not willing to do-yk?). I would step in and gently take over any time I saw him becoming too frustrated to continue addressing a situation in a gentle manner-not in an "I know better than you" manner, but in an "hey, let me give you a break" friendly kind of way.

Your dh isn't a bad guy. He's a frustrated guy who is concerned about his kids and trying to do what's right by them-IME people who spank aren't necessarily convinced that spanking in itself is good or right, but they don't know any other way to teach their kids or haven't seen anything else working in the way they expect. Counseling isn't a bad idea. It might help all of you enormously. If he's willing. I think the main thing is to find a way to keep working with him on this. Not so much lecturing him, but really communicating and working together.

The best first step would be to call your insurance people. There should be a number on your insurance card. Ask them if he needs a referral from a primary care physician to see a counselor and what types of counselors are covered under the plan. Some insurance plans have a separate network for counseling services (for example, Blue Cross Blue Shield contracts with Magellan in some places for psychiatric/counseling services), so you'll want to find that out, too.

So, call the insurance plan - Does he need a referral? If so, make an appointment with his doctor. If no, find out what your network is for counselors and start calling. If you have any AP/GD friends around, you may want to ask for personal referrals, too, to make sure that you find someone who is actually going to see spanking as an anger management issue and not an effective, valid discipline technique. If not, you can speak directly with the counselors (sometimes they even answer their own phones) and question them before making an appointment.

Good for you for taking a stand and doing what's best for your family. I know all of this must be very painful for you.