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<p>I read an article in the NYT today noting that the new version of the DSM is eliminating narcissistic personality disorder and merging it with other personality disorder types. I went over to the DSM 5 website and read up on it a little more. Basically, they're keeping a few of the main personality disorders (most notably for us on this board, BPD and antisocial disorder). But other PDs that used to have their own diagnosis in the DSM 4, including NPD, are getting reclassified into something they call "trait domains"</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dsm5.org/PROPOSEDREVISIONS/Pages/PersonalityandPersonalityDisorders.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.dsm5.org/PROPOSEDREVISIONS/Pages/PersonalityandPersonalityDisorders.aspx</a></p>
<p><span style="font-size:small;">"Considerable research has shown excessive co-occurrence among personality disorders diagnosed using the categorical system of the DSM (Oldham et al., 1992; Zimmerman et al., 2005).<span> </span> In fact, most patients diagnosed with personality disorders meet criteria for more than one.<span>"</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:small;"><span>Their definition of general personality disorder:</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:small;"><span>"</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial;"><span style="font-size:small;">Personality disorders represent <b>the failure to develop a sense of self-identity and the capacity for interpersonal functioning</b> that are adaptive in the context of the individual’s cultural norms and expectations." </span> </span></p>
<p>Also, the new descriptions of the remaining PDs are really illuminating.</p>
<p>Half Asian Mama, here's your ex right here under the new antisocial/psychopathic type: <a href="http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=16" target="_blank">http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=16</a></p>
<p>And here's a much more authentic description of BPD than the one in the previous DSM: <a href="http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=17#" target="_blank">http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=17#</a></p>
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<p>In general, the revisions make a lot of sense to me, because I'm always hearing women on this board say, "I think he might have NPD, but he also has traits of BPD (or antisocial disorder)." Now, if they aren't diagnosed as BPD or APD, they might get a general personality disorder diagnosis, with a cluster of the traits that are associated with narcissism.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm not a psychiatrist and I'm not sure how coherently I'm explaining this, but I think it's a good revision.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>ETA: Here's are some more articles on it:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=35638&cn=8" target="_blank">http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=35638&cn=8</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-shrink-tank/201002/dsm-v-offers-new-criteria-personality-disorders" target="_blank">http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-shrink-tank/201002/dsm-v-offers-new-criteria-personality-disorders</a></p>
 

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<p>Thanks for sharing this information. I agree that many people with personality disorders have features of more than one disorder. My husband meets at least some of the criteria for many of them; schizoid, antisocial, passive aggressive, dependent/avoidant.  </p>
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<p>Do lots of abusers have personality disorders? I've long suspected this is the problem with my husband, but he's a licensed psychologist and has told me he could outsmart any psyche test they gave him, and he'd never go for an evaluation anyway, so I guess I'll never know for sure.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
<p>I'm not a professional and this is just my personal theory, but I actually believe that just about all abusers have some kind of personality disorder in the "B cluster" of personality disorders (BPD, Antisocial, narcissistic). </p>
 

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<p>Wow Jen...that description fits my XH rather well, especially where the lack of empathy, manipulation and substance abuse were concerned...although I don't know where his delusions fit in.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He regularly talked about getting three triangularly grouped bruises on his arms, saying that "the others" were taking him at night to study him, and that they "wanted something from him". He was pretty freaked out about that. He also believed in the Apocalypse and the survival of humankind hinging on his son, my DSS, leading humanity out of their dark period. And then of course, there's the belief that he and his children were superhuman, like X-Men, the next evolution in humankind, more resilient to injury, gifted with extra-sensory perceptions, etc.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Honestly, I couldn't care less what he's got...my concern is this: is it genetic and is my DD at risk of becoming like her father?</p>
 

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<p><span><img alt="yikes.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/yikes.gif"></span></p>
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<p><span>i think personality disorders get passed from parent to child not genetically but environmentally - the abuse, the neglect, the crazy beliefs, and the normalization of lying, manipulating, controlling behaviors, selfishness, entitlement.  i also see in stbx's case how most of this stuff developed as a way to survive his childhood.  i don't know about other personality disorders, but bpd is supposedly rooted in childhood trauma, which is part of the reason it gets misdiagnosed at ptsd. </span></p>
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<p><span>for kids who continue to live with their personality disordered parent,</span> having that offset by a loving, healthy adult in their lives (the other parent or someone else they are close with) gives them an excellent chance of growing into healthy adults themselves.  you are an awesome mama to your dd, and you've been working hard to protect dd and yourself so that you are able to be the mama she needs and deserves.  she is going to be okay.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<p>I agree with Doubledutch that personality disorders are usually rooted in childhood trauma. My BPD ex was the son of a severe alcoholic, who then went and got into a really weird situation and was murdered by two strippers. (I actually went to the county where this happened and read the original case documents, otherwise I don't think I'd even believe that happened.) I think the environment is hugely more important than genetics.</p>
<p>Half Asian Mama -- I think as far as diagnoses go, they would say that your ex also has <span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial, 'sans-serif';"><span style="font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Arial;">Schizotypal traits, which are often comorbid.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial, 'sans-serif';"><span style="font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Arial;">I wouldn't worry about your daughter being like your ex. But if you are worried, get her into therapy, if for no other reason than your own peace of mind.</span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial, 'sans-serif';"><span style="font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Arial;">I worry too that DS</span></span></span> will be like his dad. We're going to have to have a lot of conversations about addiction as he gets older.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Halfasianmomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282474/dsm-5-revisions-to-personality-disorders#post_16082555"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Wow Jen...that description fits my XH rather well, especially where the lack of empathy, manipulation and substance abuse were concerned...although I don't know where his delusions fit in.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He regularly talked about getting three triangularly grouped bruises on his arms, saying that "the others" were taking him at night to study him, and that they "wanted something from him". He was pretty freaked out about that. He also believed in the Apocalypse and the survival of humankind hinging on his son, my DSS, leading humanity out of their dark period. And then of course, there's the belief that he and his children were superhuman, like X-Men, the next evolution in humankind, more resilient to injury, gifted with extra-sensory perceptions, etc.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Honestly, I couldn't care less what he's got...my concern is this: is it genetic and is my DD at risk of becoming like her father?</p>
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<p><br><br>
Gawd, we could really swap stories. My x went through a long period where he thought he was being tested and was recieving messages through his dog, among other things. Apparrently, it was a battle of good and evil and it all hinged on the decisions he made at the time. I gave a journal he wrote during this period to my shaman for, um, burning and what not, it is crazy. Letters backwards, the buzzards coming, nurmerology stuff he made up - basically it looked like something a person on, oh, 9 hits of acid who was also learning to read and write, while listening to lynerd skinard would write. sheesh.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, I read parts of books about bpd and narcisstic mothers. I got too triggered to finish. But I felt that you could have switched the titles and they would have read the same.</p>
 

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<p>DeerMother...wow, it's "good" to know that I'm not alone in the "crazy ex husband department". I was often so weirded out by what my ex told me that I didn't dare reveal any of it to my friends or family. When I finally wrote it down to discuss in an Al-Anon meeting, I realized just how nuts it sounded. Yet another best-selling book I should write.. :)</p>
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<p>Doubledutch....I worry about DD's heritage because if I listen to my Ex-MIL, XH had a pretty normal childhood except that he was the product of a reconstituted family. I don't think his mother or father abused him. I was told that his paternal grandfather was an abusive alcoholic and his grandmother a true blue codependent enabler...but I don't know what kind of exposure he had to those people. To hear his mother tell it, XH was a sweet little boy who one day just turned weird, and then violent. That part really concerns me. However, I parented XH's 2rd son for 6 years, and he was the nicest young man. He was however parented by XH as well and some significant damage was done. I'll be keeping an eye out for XH's 3rd son, as I have contact with his mother, to see if he displays the same traits as his father. That boy was raised away from XH as of the age of 2, so perhaps he'll be my frame of reference where DD is concerned.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And Jen...wow to your father's tragic end. I almost sounds like an episode of CSI.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
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<p>And Jen...wow to your father's tragic end. I almost sounds like an episode of CSI.</p>
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<p>Oh, not my father, thank goodness...my BPD ex's father. But yeah, it was really weird. According to the court document, he was sleeping with (I think in the paid for sense) these two lesbians who worked in a strip club, and I guess they were doing a bunch of drugs together, and they came up with a plan to rob and murder him for the money. They're still in jail, and this happened about 20 years ago. All the while, he had this sweet country wife and a couple of kids at home and he acted like the good family man. My ex's mom (a very nice lady and an enabler to no end) said her husband had been sober for a few years but started drinking a few months before his death. Anyway, I figure that was the big trigger that pushed my ex into BPD -- he was 8 years old at the time.</p>
 
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