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Hi-<br><br>
I never thought about the vitamin K shot they do at birth- Please educate me on this as much as you can- Why is this shot so bad? I need to help a preg mama friend of mine about why she should avoid this shot. Also she is GBS positive (so am I) and she said she has to get antibiotics during labor, well I know that too cause they always made me take them too- what are some other options for GBS treatment during labor besides antibiotics? I was always told my baby could die if I did not recieve the antibiotics, same for my best friend. We want to know the truth and what else we can do. Thanks for your time and any info! I am ready to soak up some info!
 

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Im watching this thread for responses...vit k was the only shot DS got. I was planning on doing the oral vit k but never got around to getting it<br><br>
Im also GBS+ and was on abx at birth but I also have a heart condition that I take meds for so the abx covered both (and I did not feel safe risking a heart problem after the fact, no matter how small)
 

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The antbx for GBS is what I fough tooth and nail. I tried probiotics during preg. and retested but no change. There are other measures such as inserting garlic, or garlic infused olive oil just inside(you'll have to ask others for specifics) that may have worked better but I was uncomfrtable doing them.<br>
If you choose the antibiotics then make sure to take probiotics before and after delivery and give some to your little one, as well as really limit sugar and dairy to avoid thrush. Many women who take the antibiotics and their babies develop thrush because of the imbalance.
 

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One of the risks if the abx is thrush. Another is poor dental development in the baby. Another is allergic reaction in either the mother or the baby. And another is that overuse of abx contributes to the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.<br><br>
Vitamin K is only indicated in the case of a traumatic birth that may have caused bleeding in the baby, or if the baby is going to need surgery in the first week or so of life. It was pretty much started because so many boys were bleeding out from being circumcised in the first few days, because their bodies are not meant to deal with being traumatised like that.<br><br><a href="http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html" target="_blank">http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/gbs.html</a> and <a href="http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vitktop.html" target="_blank">http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vitktop.html</a> <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I prepared for homebirth and was never tested for GBS despite having a positive with my previous pregnancy. I was told by my midwife that if I were GBS positive and didn't have antibiotics and had a vaginal delivery that it simply increased the baby's risk of having some upper respiratory problems. She said that if I declined the test and antibiotics (which I did) that they would simply take extra precautions with the baby and testing when she was born. My biggest reason for declining the antibiotics was because I am highly susceptible to yeast infections. Antibiotics would cause a yeast infection which could then cause thrush and make for huge BF issues early on.<br><br>
Now I ended up with antibiotics anyway because my water broke and I labored at home for 24 hrs but I just wanted to share my take on it. I doubt any physicians would allow anyone to decline antibiotics or GBS testing and maybe even some midwives wouldn't either. It all depends on your caregiver.
 

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Vitamin K- It makes no sense to me that humans would be born NEEDING to be injected with something. I would never circ (one of the main causes of bleeding in early days) so we will always refuse this unless there are extremely unusual situations (excessive bruising etc)<br><br>
GBS antibiotics- Giving antibiotics in labor INCREASES the chance the newborn will have E coli and a couple of other infections. I don't test for GBS and instead watch for risk factors (fever in mom, extended rupture of membranes etc)<br><br>
-Angela
 

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oral vit K link<br><a href="http://www.birthwithlove.com/categories/itempage.asp?prodid=Vitamin+K+1+%28Vit+K+1+%29-Sciencific+Laboratories-this+is+the+one+for+your+newborn" target="_blank">http://www.birthwithlove.com/categor...r+your+newborn</a><br><br>
if you REALLY want to give it.. or if traumatic birth/bleeding/circ etc but IMHO mother nature would not have a baby born that "needed" something injected into it to survive... makes no sense to me<br><br>
GBS, no experience, sorry, good luck..
 

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thrush is only one consequence of baby not getting exposed to proper gut flora at birth. baby is also at risk of allergies, because not having the right flora can lead to having increased intestinal permeability ("leaky gut"), which leads to allergies and food "sensitivites/intolerances." this is doubly important if your friend or her partner "had allergies as a kid, but grew out of them." baby really needs a chance to get the right flora (which they get on the way out the "birth canal"). if she <span style="text-decoration:underline;">does</span> get the abx, she should give baby probiotics, esp with the infantis strain, and reuteri. but there are hundreds of strains of bacteria in our GI tract, and once they're out of balance it can be hard to get things right again. bacteria are important to the synthesis of vitamins, to the immune system... so many functions! just lurk at the healing the gut tribe in health and healing to get a sense of the problems people are dealing with as a result.
 

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Moving to Birth and Beyond
 

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From a list I'm on, about an alternative treatment for GBS.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Hibiclens vaginal wash, can be purchased at any pharmacy over the counter. Green plastic bottle.<br>
-Then you mix it with water 1:1 and using a syringe or turkey baster, or douche bag infuse it into your vagina.<br>
-This is best done laying on bed with a pad underneath, and your hips elevated a bit. Or in the tub.<br>
-"Unlike antibiotics, which aren't of much use unless at least 4 hours before birth, the hibiclens wash is good even if used just before birth."</td>
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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pixiewytch</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7277743"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I doubt any physicians would allow anyone to decline antibiotics or GBS testing and maybe even some midwives wouldn't either.</div>
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I just wanted to point out that we always have the right to decline any test or treatment. They may pressure you but they cannot force you. They may threaten to fire you as a patient, but since GBS testing is usually done at the end of pregnancy, and they have to give you a certain time period to find another care provider before officially "firing" you, the point is probably moot.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pixiewytch</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7277743"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I doubt any physicians would allow anyone to decline antibiotics or GBS testing and maybe even some midwives wouldn't either. It all depends on your caregiver.</div>
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How absurd. Any respectful provider should practice informed consent. That means that all decisions must be made with proper information, but the decision belongs to the patient.<br><br>
-Angela
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pixiewytch</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7277743"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Now I ended up with antibiotics anyway because my water broke and I labored at home for 24 hrs</div>
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I don't think this has to be necessary in this situation either. With external washing and avoiding anything internal, the risk of infection is very low. And my waters broke and I labored for 55 hours after that, at home. No GBS testing.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br>
waited at home for labor to begin after ROM for 70 hrs with no problems, no antibiotics needed, just kept myself very clean and was watching for any signs of infection, there were none.<br>
14hrs of active labor, so from rom to birth a total of 84 hours! we did not test for GBS, the chances of having a problem from the antibiotic use outweighed the risk of the baby having a problem from gbs. we chose the "wait & watch" approach, treat the condition not the possibility.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>paquerette</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7286383"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I just wanted to point out that we always have the right to decline any test or treatment. They may pressure you but they cannot force you. They may threaten to fire you as a patient, but since GBS testing is usually done at the end of pregnancy, and they have to give you a certain time period to find another care provider before officially "firing" you, the point is probably moot.</div>
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alegna</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7287470"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">How absurd. Any respectful provider should practice informed consent. That means that all decisions must be made with proper information, but the decision belongs to the patient.<br><br>
-Angela</div>
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just make sure your friend has a knowledgeble, observant companion in the room. informed consent is a joke in practice. they have you sign a consent form for "medically necessary" interventions, so they're covered to do whatever is protocol.<br><br>
for example, i was given pitocin at dd1's birth, and only found out 3 years later when i got my records copied to give to my midwives when i was expecting dd2. i was shocked, because i was only in the delivery room (from triage) a few minutes before they told me to start pushing! i couldn't figure out why they'd given it. my midwives explained to me that it was most likely given after the birth to speed delivery of the placenta/clamping off of blood vessels, that it's standard procedure, and you have to "decline" it to avoid it. well, it's hard to decline what isn't "offered."<br><br>
so make sure someone's watching like a hawk, and specifically decline anything you know about already that you don't want.
 

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the info I have on hibiclens- is to use it diluted 20 parts water to 1 part hibiclens this is the strength it is used in the European hospitals where its use was studied for labor and the rinse is an external rinse- like you can put it in a peri- bottle and you could spray it with your labia open but no deep douching --<br><br>
as for vitamin K - our diets are low in it and in pregnancy babies do not get much but after birth breast milk will provide as much as you are taking in- but you need to be eating vitamin K- in order to provide it to your baby- most people in the US don't even eat the RDA for vitamin K- and there are studies that show that the RDA should probably be raised in order to help prevent osteoperosis- that amount would be 2-3 times the current RDA -- so what the injections are doing is protecting babies from our poor diets, in the short term- but in the long run the best thing would be to change our diet/eating habits to include a large amount of greens/vitamin K rich foods.<br>
special circumstances that would create more of a need- trauma, rescusitation, instrumental birth, exposure to antibotics or drugs ( partly because of liver function and change in flora)
 

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The hospital that I am delivering at (don't even get me started...) requires a court order to waive vitamin k, etc. It cost me $200 to file the court order, plus an additional $10 for certified copies to take with me. Most states have a religious exemption to the law (mine does) but private hospitals/birth centers can have their own rules.<br><br>
Vitamin K injections have been linked with childhood leukemia and the packaging on the shot says its not for children under 2 months of age. Remind me why we are routinely pumping this into newborns?
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>formerluddite</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7294008"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">just make sure your friend has a knowledgeble, observant companion in the room. informed consent is a joke in practice. they have you sign a consent form for "medically necessary" interventions, so they're covered to do whatever is protocol.<br><br><b>for example, i was given pitocin at dd1's birth, and only found out 3 years later when i got my records copied to give to my midwives when i was expecting dd2.</b> i was shocked, because i was only in the delivery room (from triage) a few minutes before they told me to start pushing! i couldn't figure out why they'd given it. my midwives explained to me that it was most likely given after the birth to speed delivery of the placenta/clamping off of blood vessels, that it's standard procedure, and you have to "decline" it to avoid it. well, it's hard to decline what isn't "offered."<br><br>
so make sure someone's watching like a hawk, and specifically decline anything you know about already that you don't want.</div>
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This happened to both my twin sister and I. Possibily my older sister too (she hasn't gotten her records yet) We both had specified we didn't want it in our birth plans, we were both given it to speed up labor without our informed consent. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 
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