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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="jaw2"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Eleven men in Mali were jailed after refusing to let their children receive the polio vaccine. The men were charged with "resistance, disobedience and rebellion against public authorities" and sentenced to between six months and three years in prison.</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Since early 2004, armies of vaccinators have marched along dusty, winding streets from India to Nigeria, determined to inoculate every child under the age of five. Although appearing virtuous in the eyes of the world, the relentless vaccination program has resulted in some menacing consequences: children in some regions of India were forced to swallow up to 20 doses of the vaccine, since there is no way to verify who had been vaccinated in earlier rounds. 1</td>
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<a href="http://www.mercola.com/2005/jun/2/vaccine_refusal.htm" target="_blank">http://www.mercola.com/2005/jun/2/vaccine_refusal.htm</a>
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/huh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="huh"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bigeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bigeyes"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw"><br><br>
I do vax, but by choice; and thank God we are able to choose for our children. If it is good or not!<br><br><br>
Jenn <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/slinggirl.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Slinggirl"><br>
sweetest lil babe
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bawling.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bawl"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shake.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shake"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/crap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crap">
 

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I saw that...scary stuff. Especially what Damien said. I think this is an important issue we need to be active on. We cannot let them force this stuff on us! We are still free, so we need to be faxing our congresspeople and working to educate others to stand up for our rights.<br>
I am trying to think positive thoughts and have hope for the best, but this is some seriously scary stuff going on. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hide.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hide">
 

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I can't even imagine.... honestly I'm not sure what I would do in that situation.<br><br>
Be away from my family and possibly lose my children forever for not vaxing Or suck it up, take the chance, and vax them. Cause even if you end up in jail and such they are going to vx them anyway.<br><br>
Scarey....
 

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I have very mixed feelings about this.<br><br>
Those men jailed for refusing to get their kids vaccines, probably assisted in getting their female children circumcized. I can't say I feel too sorry for them.<br><br>
Refusing certain vaxes as a parental right in the USA, or other industrialized country is a whole different thing than doing it in a country that has an upsurge of that disease. While many argue that diseases here in the U.S would've fallen regardless, due to improvements in hygiene, that is NOT the case in most african countries.<br><br>
So while I fully support, and understand the reasons people here choose not to vax, I don't think those same reasons apply in third world nations.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>gethane</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have very mixed feelings about this.<br><br>
Those men jailed for refusing to get their kids vaccines, probably assisted in getting their female children circumcized. I can't say I feel too sorry for them.<br></div>
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That is one hell of an assumption to base your entire judgement on.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">It's estimated that perhaps 80 percent of young girls are still circumcised, and the Malian form of the ceremony involves cutting off a girl's clitoris as a way of initiating her into womanhood and preparing her for marriage.</td>
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<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/662565.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nts/662565.stm</a><br><br>
I'm sure its totally possible that their female children are in the 20% that aren't circumcized, but chances are against it.<br><br><a href="http://www.afrol.com/articles/13372" target="_blank">http://www.afrol.com/articles/13372</a><br><br>
However, none of this has anything to do with the rest of my statement. Which I realize is in conflict with many here at MDC. I've looked at the vaccine info. With some trepidation I did vaccinate my children. However, in Africa I would've had NO trepidation. The risks of the disease are higher there when applying a risk analysis. It's pretty safe to choose not to vaccinate in the US, since there hasn't been a wild case since 1979. However, its not so safe to choose that elsewhere.
 

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It's not your place to decide what other parents should do for their children, no matter where they are. In fact, its a very dangerous idea. Should poor people or people in poor countries have fewer rights in than those in wealthy countries?
 

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I didn't say it was, I said I had mixed feelings about it.<br><br>
eta: i guess i should've just jumped on the bandwagon rather than sharing my honest and admittedly mixed feelings about it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll">
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Those men jailed for refusing to get their kids vaccines, probably assisted in getting their female children circumcized. I can't say I feel too sorry for them.</td>
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typically in the US we like to jail people for the actual crime they commit, and don't endorse the idea that "well as long as we get them for something". At least most people I know and respect do.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Arduinna</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">typically in the US we like to jail people for the actual crime they commit, and don't endorse the idea that "well as long as we get them for something". At least most people I know and respect do.</div>
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Sorry, still can't say I feel sorry for them. Sorry that bugs you all so much.<br><br>
I guess I don't understand why you'd all be so up in arms about their "rights" being abridged but not horrified that they likely (according to Mali statistics) GRIEVOUSLY abridged the rights of their daughters.<br><br>
Flame away, won't change my opinion on that one. That doesn't mean I think they DESERVED to be jailed for not vaxing, it just means, eh, sorry can't feel too sorry for them.<br><br>
ETA: this was posted in current events. I never would've ventured an opinion on it if it had been posted in the vax forum.
 

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I understand what you are saying gethane, and I totally agree.<br><br>
We don't vax although if we move to someplace with these diseases DH and I might change our min.<br><br>
I would rather see these men arrested for circumsizing their daughters rather than for refusing vaxes def.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>gethane</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/662565.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...nts/662565.stm</a><br><br>
I'm sure its totally possible that their female children are in the 20% that aren't circumcized, but chances are against it.<br><br><a href="http://www.afrol.com/articles/13372" target="_blank">http://www.afrol.com/articles/13372</a><br></div>
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I would think that their girls would be more likely to be in the 20%, at least here (at MDC) I have learned that those who question "routine" things in one area, are more likely to question them in other areas.<br><br>
I would agree that it seems far riskier to refuse vax there, I still think parents should have that right.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Peppermint</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would think that their girls would be more likely to be in the 20%, at least here (at MDC) I have learned that those who question "routine" things in one area, are more likely to question them in other areas.<br>
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Exactly. I imagine that someone who is willing to GO TO JAIL rather than vaccinate is a pretty fierce advocate for their child. Also, though, ya'll are still just assuming, you don't know a damned things about their daughter's vaginas. It's a highly uninformed opinion.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">you don't know a damned things about their daughter's vaginas. It's a highly uninformed opinion.</td>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"><br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I guess I don't understand why you'd all be so up in arms about their "rights" being abridged but not horrified that they likely (according to Mali statistics) GRIEVOUSLY abridged the rights of their daughters.</td>
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you are making huge assumptions here. not only about us, but about them. Using US statistics you could assume that I vax and would circ, yet I don't. Applying statistics on a nation or group to an individual has no actual basis in fact.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mahdokht</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It's a highly uninformed opinion.</div>
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and so is yours. you are also overlaying YOUR views of people that don't vax. From what I've read they don't want to because they have heard the rumor it makes the children sterile, not for the reasons I hear those here state. Show me a published study that upholds their belief.<br><br>
In countries where the majority of women are circed, the big fear is often that the women won't make good marriage partners if they aren't circed. So... if the fathers are so concerned about their children's fertility, they are also probably concerned about whether they'll get married. So my opinion is the exactly opposite of yours about whether these men circed their daughters.<br><br>
My opinion AND your opinion are both highly uninformed. However, statistically, I am more likely to be correct.
 

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Adding<br><br>
This is all pretty stupid anyway.<br><br>
Would your opinion change if you found out they HAD circed their daughters? No? then so what.<br><br>
Would my opinion change? I never said I thought they should go to jail anyway. I DO think they are being superstitious and uninformed however, and they aren't analyzing REAL risks to their children in this instance. But I never said I thought they should go to jail. I simply said the liklihood that they circed their daughters prevents me from feeling sorry for their plight.
 
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