elimination diet for an older child - food intolerance testing?

saralm · Jan 30, 2013

Hi All,
My 3 1/2 year old still wakes 3-7 times a night. A couple of times a week she is awake for 2 hours in the middle of the night and is simply unable to go back to sleep for that time. That wakefulness is significantly more than our 3 month old. She needs to breastfeed back to sleep after each waking. I am not interested in advice about stopping breastfeeding or about not co-sleeping.
We tried eliminating wheat for about 3 weeks (with a single lapse) over the summer but it didn't help much. Should I try the Dr. Sears elimination diet? It seems so limiting. It is one thing for me but doing that to her when she is already a picky eater seems pretty intense. 
Are there any tests that are worth the time and money? Online, people seemed to think that the most reliable indicator was an elimination diet. Does anyone have a different diet they prefer?
Has anyone had success with sleep issues based on things they found their child was intolerant to after doing the elimination diet? 
Desperate for more sleep. Sorry if I left out anything important but I am pretty tired. 
Sara

GreenVariety · Jan 31, 2013

Okay, I'm not going to lie, I just jumped into the Allergy thread to post my own thoughts, findings and some inquiries on this same topic as we have been having "sleep issue relapses" and my son has been eating a very small amount of dairy the past couple days. 
 
A little back story. My son has a lot of food intolerances. My son is almost 3, we've been dealing with his issues (and subsequently my own) through food for the past 3 years...it's been a journey... We are paleo for all intensive purposes plus no night shades. These are his symptoms (I have never talked to an MD about this -- I am an avid researcher/health & real food advocate):
 
Sleep Issues - Dairy/Soy*
Constipation - Grains (across the board so far)
Skin Dryness - Grains/Dairy?
Mood Issues - Soy/Corn*
Potty Issues - Nightshades (a dry boy turns into a bed wetter)
*This includes animals fed these ingredients and eggs -- he is fine with GMO free corn (verified, I can't rely on the organic label) in animal feed but if it's conventional feed you better hold on tight...it's going to be a bumpy ride! i.e. no conventional meats or eggs, no eggs with chickens fed soy. All pasture raised meats (and what we can't get soy free we raise ourselves or go without at this point). And no vitamins as I have yet to find one that doesn't contain one of these ingredients...there are a lot of other things but these are the two biggies...like no processed foods, etc.
 
Anyway, I was literally just searching the internet for actual scientific documentation on some of this stuff. My antidoal doesn't do people a lot of good if they think I'm crazy

Here's one published in Pediatrics:
 
<a href="http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/84/4/595.short" target="_blank">http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/84/4/595.short</a>
 
Please note at the time of this study GMO's had not yet been introduced into the food supply. Canola was introduced in the early 1990's ('92 I believe) and corn and soy were in 1996 if memory serves. Since that time allergies and intolerances have been increasing in our children. This was also before the introduction of many of the newer vaccinations and heavy dosages (compound) of methyl mercury. So at that time, food related sleep issues were not really prevalent. If you search the net now, people with autoimmune diseases are popping up left and right and many of them are noticing sleep issues with dairy, wheat (or grain) and soy consumption. Again, all antidotal.
 
One such article - <a href="http://surefoodsliving.com/2008/08/gluten-and-sleep-disturbance/" target="_blank">http://surefoodsliving.com/2008/08/gluten-and-sleep-disturbance/</a>
 
This is not lactose intolerance as the Pediatrics article indicates (that is very rare in infants and would be diagnosed quickly as there would be a reaction to mothers milk).
 
There is a lot going on with our food and our health as a nation. It is most apparent in our children and a lot of professionals "poo poo" parents. But there are some that are doing a lot of beneficial work towards healing food issues. I am unfamiliar with Dr. Sears' protocol for food elimination but have read "Gut and Psychology Syndrome" by Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride as well as "The Specific Carbohydrate Diet" and a few others by other authors. Picky eaters are another symptom of a compromised gut (if it's on going, some children go through phases) and doing an elimination diet now would go a long way to helping her later on.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that women who breast feed pass on their gut bacteria to their children. It was a very hard lesson for me to learn that most of my son's issues were my issues as well. I have another good friend going through this process. Her 3 year old is "probably" celiac and just to young to formally diagnose per their pediatrician. The more she is reading and researching (with what time she has -- 4 kiddo's) the more she is finding that her symptoms are in line with an undiagnosed autoimmune issue.
 
If you want to read a bit about the autoimmune protocol (which a lot of people are starting to do for themselves while putting their child on a paleo/GAPS/SCD inspired diet check out - <a href="http://www.thepaleomom.com/" target="_blank">http://www.thepaleomom.com/</a> (just click on the "autoimmunity" drop down to see what is there).
 
This is not an easy topic to address either for someone else or for yourself. I would be inclined personally to recommend either the SCD or GAPS diets or a Paleo inspired diet instead of Dr Sears partly because I am unfamiliar with his diet and partly because the SCD/GAPS diets and Paleo are what people that do an elimination diet end up transitioning to. The authors of both SCD and GAPS books healed their children and many others with their protocols (not just discovered the problem) and it might help you completely skip a step. If she is already a picky eater I would recommend GAPS as Dr. Campbell-McBride has a lot of recommendations for dealing with picky eaters (not all easy but there is a reason they are picky usually). Also going right to a Paleo (grain free) diet may help and there are some wonderful resources for that (especially for parents with children) like "The Paleo Parents," "The Paleo Mom," "Mommypotamus," "The Urban Poser" and a few others. They will give you lots of tips, tricks and recipes to get you started and a lot of them can parallel stuff our kids like.
 
I realize your questions was predominantly about an elimination diet. I think they are very helpful. We did one (we did GAPS) but the diets I have offered up here are lifestyle changes that allow you to test without withholding a ton of stuff. They also will give you the tools to see what your child might be like without allergens in her diet. And if there are no changes, no one is worse for the wear. The other reason I recommend something other then an elimination diet is with some foods it takes up to 3 weeks for the food to completely get out of your systems. See the book by pediatrician Doris Rapp, MD "Is This Your Child." This book is what actually awakened me to the issues going on with my son (I knew there were problems but he was 6 months and I was at a total loss).
 
Good luck! Wishing you all the best!
 
namaste

earthmama4 · Jan 31, 2013

Yes the Sears TED is limiting and if night waking is your only symptom, I don't know I'd go there just yet. Does she have normal stools? Skin issues? Yes sometimes food intolerances are manifested in behavior, but there is usually a couple other subtle physical symptoms that go along with it. Dark circles under the eyes, a chronic stuffy nose, irritated bum, frequent infections or UTI, something. I would only do a TED in the case of quite a few symptoms because with the TED there is such a high risk of nutrient loss over time. If you feel really strongly there is a food connection, I would do a basic dairy elimination since it is the most common issue and the least restrictive diet IME. 
 
If the night waking is your only symptom and she's otherwise a healthy girl...I personally would look at behavioral reasons, adjustment to the new baby maybe? Often we are so busy with a newborn that our older ones get kind of babyish to get our attention. Also, sometimes behaviors that have been there forever don't really bother us until a new LO comes along and suddenly we just don't have the energy to deal with it anymore and its seems huge! BTDT with both scenarios. Also I know how hard it is to get our active preschoolers out in the fresh air when its cold and you have a baby, but that can also really help regulate sleep, as can having a predicable routine.
 
Would you be open to trying a little melatonin? My 4 yr old DS was such a restless sleeper and that made a world of difference for him. At age 2 it used to take him 1.5 hours or so to fall asleep and he'd rarely nap. After a 1mg dose of Melatonin he'd fall asleep in 15 minutes, and it helped him start napping regularly too, even though I only gave it to him at night. It truly regulated his sleep cycle - which is its intention. There are also many calming herbs that can be helpful for childhood sleep issues, like chamomile.

pek64 · Feb 1, 2013

Dry skin can be a niacin deficiency. 
Cherry juice, especially organic, can help with sleep issues. Also getting morning sunlight helps to reset the body's internal clock, if that's the problem. 
Food issues can result in a adrenaline response, which makes it impossible to sleep! It can take a couple weeks of avoidance without mistakes to see improvement of sleep. If it is a food issue, hopefully there is another symptom that will change faster, like a tendency to have meltdowns or aggression or forgetfulness. Keep a food-sleep diary to see changes better. 
I hope something here helps. If you identify a food causing the problem, look for hidden sources to eliminate it entirely. 
Good luck.

saralm · Feb 4, 2013

Night waking is our only current issue but it has been an issue nearly her whole life. As someone said above, she used to take at least 1 hour of nursing to get to sleep. Now that we cut out the nap, she goes to sleep much better but has such a hard time staying asleep at night. It isn't really much of a change since the new baby. At some point, she was diagnosed with eczema but we have had no trouble controlling it once we knew what it was and that we need to keep her skin moisturized. She has also progressed into a very picky eater although that doesn't seem unusual for her age. 
We did the food sleep diary when we eliminated wheat over the summer. I thought there was a pattern initially but it fell apart and I gave up. 
I guess I have been looking to a food source to the sleep issue because I had a food intolerance as a young child. My child did some test and took wheat out of our diet. I then was much more in control of my behavior and was able to concentrate and learn better. I don't think that my daughter exhibits many of the same problems I had but I really want more sleep which is why I was looking to some answer. 
Maybe I will try melatonin. We are decent, although not rigid with a routine. 
Thanks for the thought, all.

rush2ady · Feb 4, 2013

I don't know if my personal experience will be helpful to you or not...but maybe, so I'll share. I am gluten intolerant (diagnosed through Enterolab, they checked antibody levels as well as genetic testing for genes predisposing me to gluten intolerance. Of course I have both copies of a gene predisposing me to intolerance...figures. And the antibodies showing I am indeed allergic.) I've gone Paleo, as well as following a GAPS inspired diet with lots of naturally fermented foods, etc.
 
Much to my disappointment, my health has not improved from the stricter diet. The damage done to my gut caused malabsorption issues, and has resulted in nutrient deficiencies. Low nutrient levels lead to my body not being strong enough to heal and get back out of the ditch---so I need supplementation in the meantime. Anyways, long story short, if you're looking at food allergies, the first nutrient I would also check is Vitamin B-12. I'm just learning that B-12 deficiency usually goes hand in hand with gluten intolerance issues. 
 
I'm saying all this, because for me, merely eliminating the offending food made very little difference and I never would've identified my allergies based on elimination diet alone. By the time symptoms show up, there could already be a nutritional gap, and it could be the lack of nutrients, rather than the allergy alone, which is causing symptoms. My biggest problem now is not the gluten intolerance, but the b-12 (and who knows what else) deficiencies caused by malabsorption.
 
I thought of B-12 also because low levels can cause sleep disturbances. Does your DD have other symptoms? Such as paleness, moodiness, easily fatigued, unfocused mind, etc...although many of these symptoms don't show up until B-12 levels are desperately low. My personal suggestion is that along with checking for allergies, read up on B-12 deficiency as well and see if it fits, and if it makes sense to have her levels checked.
 
Oh, one more thing, hopefully I'm not overwhelming you with my B-12 obsession.... But in the 1990's FDA mandated folic acid being added to all grain products. Folic acid is dangerous to supplement without having adequate B-12 as well, as folate and B-12 work together in the same cycle. If you supplement folic acid without adequate B-12, it will cause B-12 deficiencies. Not to mention folic acid is the synthetic form of folate, and many people are unable to process the synthetic stuff and it ends up messing up the metabolic process. Folate and B-12 are absolutely critical and have huge repercussions if they are low. Well I have a whole theory on this linking it to autism, but I think I've gone on enough!!
<img alt="soapbox.gif" id="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1359946784888_4031" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/soapbox.gif">
 
Wishing happy dreams and peaceful sleep for you all! <img alt="goodvibes.gif" id="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1359946784888_2513" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif">

pek64 · Feb 4, 2013

I don't know if I already suggested cherry juice, but I recently read it can help with sleep issues. 
I'd try the food sleep diary, again. Another possibility is she needs more calories to be able to stay asleep. And eczema can be a food issue, too. You may be masking a symptom. Dry skin is a sign of niacin deficiency. 
Hope something here helps. I know what it's like to not be able to sleep. It's no fun, for anyone. Good luck.

GreenVariety · Feb 4, 2013

I would take the eczema as a "sign" personally. Just my personal experience with homeopathy, herbs and nutrition and countless hours of research/reading would indicate to me that controlling the eczema is much different then healing it. Healing, as a general rule, has to come from the inside. So this would be an added sign to food intolerances to me.
 
That being said, I have a tendency to look for the root cause in everything. I talk to a lot of people that remove wheat but see little or no success. I have theories on this, one of them being that there is a TON of cross contamination out there (even in whole grain's as they are often processed at the same plant as wheat). I have talked to a number of other chicken people (we raise chickens) that mix their own feed because they are dealing with celiac or some other issues similar (us it's corn and soy intolerances). Even touching millet that has been cross contaminated will throw some of them into "crisis." Take it for what you will.
 
Another thing to consider is that we, as mothers, pass a lot of our gut "issues" to our little ones when we are nursing. Our kisses, loving, home environment and nursing is what colonizes their previously sterile guts with the little worker bee's that are gut bacteria. If you have compromised gut bacteria and a known food intolerance (and as someone else mentioned, it there is one, there is usually more then one) there is a chance you have passed that onto your child. This is something that I didn't take oh so seriously and my son actually (through EBB) helped me figure out what all of my food intolerances are (and if not all then most of them). If I ate it, he would react. That's why he had sleep issues when he was EBB. I was consuming dairy (raw goat but it didn't matter with my gut).
 
I highly recommend reading that study abstract I posted previously if you didn't. In the 80's they were showing a correlation between cows milk intolerance and sleep disturbances. 

Gut issues are rampant in our culture and picky eating is a symptom of that. Talk to an older person (someone over the age of 65 or so) that has children and brought them up on natural foods (home made meals with vegetables). They will tell you they never remember their children being picky. That's been my experience anyway. It's normal now, yes. But is it normal to the human condition. I don't believe so. Most ASD children are horribly picky eaters (to the point of refusing to eat for days if it's anything out of the norm) and they are also notorious for having a compromised gut whether it be disbiosis or leaky. The GAPS books takes a good look at this. I have a friend that has a very high functioning ASD child. He will not eat anything but "his" peach yogurt. It's not even yogurt, it's loaded with sugar. A theory regarding this is that, picky eaters are picky so that they have energy. They are going after the things that give them energy and keep them "fueled" which is completely different then nurtured in a lot of cases. A number of parents see the "picky" stage kick in around the time of weaning because mothers milk is so easily absorbed.
 
My personal position is always to try a different diet. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I would go with a whole diet that have other women out there blogging with lots of support. The reason I would go this route is, what's it going to hurt? You can always go back. And in my case (as well as many other parents) the benefits almost always outweigh any drawbacks. It's inconvenient at first. It takes looking at the world a little differently. But by doing this, you are taking the chance that you will discover at an early age what your childs "issues" may be and as a result, may be able to reverse them and give her the tools for an even better life.
 
Good luck!
 
namaste

pek64 · Feb 5, 2013

Bursting the picky eater bubble, here. I was, and am, a picky eater. I also have food allergies/intolerances. My parents were over the age of 64 and fed us home cooked meals with vegetables. 
Exposure to the allergen results in adrenaline response, that prevents sleep, or at least good sleep. I once was getting only 1 hour of sleep every 24 hours. Although exhausted, I literally could not lie still and close my eyes. It was horrid! So my heart always goes out to those who cannot sleep. 
OP, how are things now?

GreenVariety · Feb 5, 2013

My statement was not designed to be all or nothing. I'm sorry if it came across that way. There are other factors. Epigenetics as one. Autism did exist before the late 80's but you talk to teachers that taught in the school systems in the 70's and it was few and far between. Gallbladder removals did exist before recently but you were not seeing young pregnant women going under for the surgery because their health depended on it. My point was simply that it was far less common and there are a lot of factors that play into that which I am sure you don't need me getting into. If you read Pottingers Cats he talks about how the third generation on a compromised diet was unable to reproduce and had tons of other health effects. Dr. Dorris Rapp also talks about us turning a blind eye to symptoms. Many other doctors do as well. We medicate and except it as the norm. I counter that it is, as if this was the normal human condition, we would not have made it this far. 
My son had huge sleep issues as an infant. I have a friend with celiac and difficulty conceiving, her TCM practioner told her she is chronically exhausted. Food plays a huge role IMHO. I keep watching and seeing it, over and over. There are other indicators as well. I wish I had gone to school for holistic nutrition instead of just biology. I would like to have credentials that made me worth listening to

instead of some woo woo mama. Doesn't seem to matter much how many years of research you have under your belt, gotta have those credentials! 
Please keep us posted OP! Hope you find something that works for you and your family and brings relief! Sleep issues at no fun.

pek64 · Feb 5, 2013

I totally agree with the idea that food is the cause of many health issues, and don't care much about credentials! "Experts" with credentials too often parrot what they were taught instead of researching for themselves, in my experience. I just didn't like the generalization, as it sounded too black and white. I think food issues began sooner than was implied. 
I also agree that we should focus more on the OP.

earthmama4 · Feb 6, 2013

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by rush2ady <a href="/community/t/1373523/elimination-diet-for-an-older-child-food-intolerance-testing#post_17254880"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> I don't know if my personal experience will be helpful to you or not...but maybe, so I'll share. I am gluten intolerant (diagnosed through Enterolab, they checked antibody levels as well as genetic testing for genes predisposing me to gluten intolerance. Of course I have both copies of a gene predisposing me to intolerance...figures. And the antibodies showing I am indeed allergic.) I've gone Paleo, as well as following a GAPS inspired diet with lots of naturally fermented foods, etc.
 
Much to my disappointment, my health has not improved from the stricter diet. The damage done to my gut caused malabsorption issues, and has resulted in nutrient deficiencies. Low nutrient levels lead to my body not being strong enough to heal and get back out of the ditch---so I need supplementation in the meantime. Anyways, long story short, if you're looking at food allergies, the first nutrient I would also check is Vitamin B-12. I'm just learning that B-12 deficiency usually goes hand in hand with gluten intolerance issues. 
 
I'm saying all this, because for me, merely eliminating the offending food made very little difference and I never would've identified my allergies based on elimination diet alone. By the time symptoms show up, there could already be a nutritional gap, and it could be the lack of nutrients, rather than the allergy alone, which is causing symptoms. My biggest problem now is not the gluten intolerance, but the b-12 (and who knows what else) deficiencies caused by malabsorption.
 
I thought of B-12 also because low levels can cause sleep disturbances. Does your DD have other symptoms? Such as paleness, moodiness, easily fatigued, unfocused mind, etc...although many of these symptoms don't show up until B-12 levels are desperately low. My personal suggestion is that along with checking for allergies, read up on B-12 deficiency as well and see if it fits, and if it makes sense to have her levels checked.
 
Oh, one more thing, hopefully I'm not overwhelming you with my B-12 obsession.... But in the 1990's FDA mandated folic acid being added to all grain products. Folic acid is dangerous to supplement without having adequate B-12 as well, as folate and B-12 work together in the same cycle. If you supplement folic acid without adequate B-12, it will cause B-12 deficiencies. Not to mention folic acid is the synthetic form of folate, and many people are unable to process the synthetic stuff and it ends up messing up the metabolic process. Folate and B-12 are absolutely critical and have huge repercussions if they are low. Well I have a whole theory on this linking it to autism, but I think I've gone on enough!!
<img alt="soapbox.gif" id="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1359946784888_4031" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/soapbox.gif">
 
Wishing happy dreams and peaceful sleep for you all! <img alt="goodvibes.gif" id="user_yui_3_7_3_1_1359946784888_2513" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/goodvibes.gif">
 
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As to the bolded, I have a DS who has all those symptoms! He does have mild autism as well, at least we think. Initial eval said yes (PDD-NOS) but ADOS was just under the cutoff. We are doing GFCF but after 2 weeks are starting to regress from the initial improvements. I am frustrated. I would LOVE to hear your theory. I have more than one on the spectrum...

GreenVariety · Feb 6, 2013

EarthMama, I know the question was not directed at me but thought I would share some info I just ran across. There are several foods that are considered gluten cross reactors (which means essentially that the body still thinks gluten is being consumed). <a href="http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/10/gluten-cross-reactivity-how-your-body-can-still-think-youre-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/10/gluten-cross-reactivity-how-your-body-can-still-think-youre-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html</a>
 
Another thing I have notices with spectrum children whose parents I've worked with is that a lot of them are reacting to stuff within eggs (or meat). A quote from the Paleo Mom "There is evidence that chickens fed soy have soy proteins in the yolks only of their eggs. And anecdotally, many celiacs report having issues with chickens who are fed gluten-containing grains (it’s possible that gluten is then present in their yolks)." A number of my friends have seen big improvements in their children when removing soy completely from their childs environment (even skin). This seems to be related to focusing in a lot of children and adult. If you search the web there is tons of anecdotal information (as well as a few studies) linking soy with ADD/ADHD, allergies and a bunch of other symptoms.
 
This is not a spectrum specific article but you may find it interesting. <a href="http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/09/guest-post-by-dr-kellie-ferguson-food-sensitivity-testing-lets-talk-about-your-options.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/09/guest-post-by-dr-kellie-ferguson-food-sensitivity-testing-lets-talk-about-your-options.html</a>
 
The reason I am posting all from the one blog is because I love this woman's research. I hope it was okay to weigh in on your question.

earthmama4 · Feb 7, 2013

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by GreenVariety <a href="/community/t/1373523/elimination-diet-for-an-older-child-food-intolerance-testing#post_17257738"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a> EarthMama, I know the question was not directed at me but thought I would share some info I just ran across. There are several foods that are considered gluten cross reactors (which means essentially that the body still thinks gluten is being consumed). <a href="http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/10/gluten-cross-reactivity-how-your-body-can-still-think-youre-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/10/gluten-cross-reactivity-how-your-body-can-still-think-youre-eating-gluten-even-after-giving-it-up.html</a>
 
Another thing I have notices with spectrum children whose parents I've worked with is that a lot of them are reacting to stuff within eggs (or meat). A quote from the Paleo Mom "There is evidence that chickens fed soy have soy proteins in the yolks only of their eggs. And anecdotally, many celiacs report having issues with chickens who are fed gluten-containing grains (it’s possible that gluten is then present in their yolks)." A number of my friends have seen big improvements in their children when removing soy completely from their childs environment (even skin). This seems to be related to focusing in a lot of children and adult. If you search the web there is tons of anecdotal information (as well as a few studies) linking soy with ADD/ADHD, allergies and a bunch of other symptoms.
 
This is not a spectrum specific article but you may find it interesting. <a href="http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/09/guest-post-by-dr-kellie-ferguson-food-sensitivity-testing-lets-talk-about-your-options.html" target="_blank">http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/09/guest-post-by-dr-kellie-ferguson-food-sensitivity-testing-lets-talk-about-your-options.html</a>
 
The reason I am posting all from the one blog is because I love this woman's research. I hope it was okay to weigh in on your question. 

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Thank you for this! I was just talking to DH (who works as a meat cutter in a grocery store) about if there is something they are adding to meat during processing or something since every time I eat it lately, esp ground meat of any kind, I get horrible GI issues. I avoid ground beef because I know they add stuff to that, but when YDS was a baby I practically lived on turkey and I can't seem to tolerate it now. I have wondered if it was a preservative of some type similar to the whole "pink slime" in the ground beef industry. Eww. 
 
I am just so mad right now our homesteading venture did not work out (long story) because my kids NEED homegrown meat and eggs. That is why we gave up everything and moved three states away!!! But nope, we are back in a rental in the city and buying food at the grocery store and too dang poor to buy the good stuff. Sigh.
 
I am going to read your links now, thank you.

GreenVariety · Feb 7, 2013

Just an FYI, the second link wasn't so great. If you want to drop me a PM and give me an idea of what city you are near I may be able to help you find a buying club that would seriously decrease those costs! I have a few friends strewn across the US in different cities and some good resources on food (and may be able to find others if needed). I understand the homesteading thing. We just moved out of the DC area and left everything we knew for the last 7 years. Back to the country. We are pregnant with #2 and trying to figure everything out plus the best way to get meat for my son and ensure that my gut issues are being managed so I don't pass them on to this one. My homeopath has said that DS has all the markers to be on the spectrum but I caught it and manage it in such a way that I have managed to avoid it. Interesting. Had it not been for the sequence of events that lead me through the background I have had...it never would have happened. SO, if I can be any further help, please don't hesitate to ask. Also, check out The Paleo Parents and search around their site. Very kid friendly and manage on a budget. It can be done on a budget, even a tight one, just takes a little extra work and some creative thinking! Since publishing their book their life has changed quite a bit though. And the Autoimmune stuff on The Paleo Mom is FANTASTIC! Speaking as a science nerd :-D 
Also, I came across an article yesterday that may be of interest. It is basically saying that the isoflavones in soy transfer through the feed into the chicken meat, organs and eggs at different strengths. These are phytoestrogens. I am sure this would be applicable to turkey. I consumed more soy then I would have liked when I was pregnant being vegan. I think it plays a roll but have yet to find the actual "research" - heres the abstract to the article I was speaking about <a href="http://etd.ohiolink.edu/view.cgi/Vargas%20Galdos%20Dante%20Miguel%20Marcial.pdf?osu1236706764" target="_blank">http://etd.ohiolink.edu/view.cgi/Vargas%20Galdos%20Dante%20Miguel%20Marcial.pdf?osu1236706764</a> This is conventional feed we are speaking about here. That was what was studied. But even the top local food pushers like Joel Salatin use roasted soy in their feed. You have to search long and hard to find a non-soy feed. And if you are dealing with gut disbiosis and unknown intolerances corn/soy/wheat free seems more effectual based on research. 

Saralm, hows your little one doing? You've been in my thoughts.

saralm · Feb 8, 2013

Thanks to all for your thoughts. I guess that, because my parents were able to do an effective test for me when I was a kid, that there was still something other than elimination that people think is effective. I will try to get up the motivation to do some elimination. Best wishes to all those working to do the best for their children and themselves.

saralm · Feb 19, 2013

I finally got motivated to go for an elimination diet. We started yesterday. The real kicker in the end was the mood stuff. Recently, by evening DD has been hitting everyone which is new behavior for you.
We are eliminating all grains except for rice, all nuts and seeds, pork, beef, chicken, dairy, eggs, citrus and nightshade. I just realized that many people recommend eliminating all beans too. Thoughts on that? I would love to leave those in. Where do you go for recipes? 
Thanks again for the help!

rush2ady · Feb 26, 2013

How are things so far? Do you see any difference in DD? I hope things are going well.
How long are you giving it til you start adding stuff back in to test?

GreenVariety · Feb 27, 2013

Hey Saralm! Just wanted to pop in and say "YAY!" congrats! I'm excited for you. The behavior stuff is a kicker isn't it. I think I mentioned above my son's behavior stuff. I also kept meaning to respond about your parents not succeeding with your elimination diet. There is a lot more support now then there was then so I hope you are able to find a super supportive community where you can ask (or just read/listen) to wonderful supportive stuff.
 
As I mentioned above, I am not familiar with Dr. Sears's elimination diet. I have done a number of different diets and made several different lifestyle changes since having my son (he's 3 next month) and before that. Based on on my personal research I always advise parents to leave in the protein/animal fat sources especially for young children as they really need those for brain development (eggs I would remove if there was a suspected underlying autoimmune issue or actual allergy but if not I would leave those as well because of the nutrients in them that children need - just find a local pastured source which eatwild.com is a wonderful resource for as well as the pastured meats which are the "gold standard"). And I would absolutely remove beans in the place of the meats. Beans have lectins and saponins in them which studies have shown cause or exacerbate a leaky gut. Here's a really good article - <a href="http://paleoparents.com/featured/how-do-grains-legumes-and-dairy-cause-a-leaky-gut-part-2-saponins-and-protease-inhibitors/" target="_blank">http://paleoparents.com/featured/how-do-grains-legumes-and-dairy-cause-a-leaky-gut-part-2-saponins-and-protease-inhibitors/</a>
 
You also didn't mention soy. My son (and many other children I now) have horrible reactions to soy (behavioral being a HUGE one). If you are interested I'm sure I can dig up some soy information for you.
 
So to summarize, (within your comfort zone take and leave what you would like and know this is after literally years of diet/lifestyle changes to heal myself and my family) meats are good when they are of good quality, local pastured best, then pastured, then organic, then conventional (and I would really avoid conventional if possible but it's still going to be better for a growing child then other forms of protein -- beans break down into carbohydrates in higher quantities then eating spoons of sugar). Legumes I would recommend anyone avoid as there are antinutrients in them that contribute to a leaky gut or gut disbiosis. Soy is bad (it is a legume but if I were to pick and choose legumes peanuts and soy would go without exception and I would work on the rest).
 
As far as resource. I would search out stuff that is egg free for your current diet. I would also possibly check out the yahoo group "FoodLab" as others may be doing Sears's protocol. There also may be some stuff in the GAPS diet as well as SCD diets that would be of use to you! If you want to tweak the diet a little I would highly (seriously highly) recommend paleoparents.com, thepaleomom.com, balancedbites.com and Chris Kresser's site just to name a few (but they are all paleo inspired diets...there are a lot of doctors and heath care practitioners that fall into the "paleo" world but don't call themselves paleo as to not label themselves). There are also autoimmune recipes on both the paleoparents and paleomom that would work in some of the egg free stuff. You will have to pick and choose as there is also a lot that has other ingredients to help heal the gut like gelatin and bone broths.
 
namaste

saralm · Feb 28, 2013

Ya, we cut out all legumes except green peas (including soy) and also cut out eggs. We are only doing lamb, turkey and fish for protein. Mostly I have been doing pretty well. But tonight I am hungry. Should have started working on food earlier in the day I think. 
I am hoping that this isn't permanent. I am hoping to figure out some things that are really hard on my daughter and then add a few other things back in. 
Sorry if I wasn't clear, my parents we successful with me. Or at least we didn't eat wheat for about 6 years and they found that it is very successful for my behavior. 
Always thankful for the support.

elimination diet for an older child - food intolerance testing?

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