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<p> Hi everyone,</p>
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<p>I have had a couple of members of the Surviving Abuse forum bring a concern to my attention. I would like it if we could all work together on how we speak about certain questions and problems in this forum. I am not starting this thread in direct response to any single poster or thread  - if I felt the need to do that, I would sent a private message to the poster in question and not raise this on the forum.</p>
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<p>Recently we have had a fair bit of discussion in here about personality disorders, particularly how they can manifest in abusers, how we might recognize the traits that comprise some of these disorders, and what else we might expect from someone who has been diagnosed in this way.</p>
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<p>It is true that the behaviour of these people is not uncommonly abusive towards others in their lives. That is something that has been discussed on this board many times, whether it is about people who were abused by personality disordered parents or who are being abused by personality disordered partners. There are many traits and behaviours that go into these diagnoses and we need to remember that while clusters or traits can look like something specific, only a professional can diagnose someone with a personality disorder. Learning that there might be a name for what is going on and an explanation or reason for the abusive behaviour we are experiencing can be a hugely important step in healing for those who are being or have been abused. Being able to talk about these things with others who have "been there" is important. We can't diagnose other people online but we can talk about what has helped us deal with certain patterns of behaviour.</p>
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<p>That said, we all need to keep in mind some other things about personality disorders such as BPD, NPD, etc. The research is clear in stating that the vast majority of people with personality disorders were severely abused themselves as children. When we are posting here about psychiatric conditions and not just the individuals with whom we are dealing, we need to remember that there are likely members of this forum who have been diagnosed with borderline or narcissistic personality disorder. I know there have been such members in the past and there may be some here today. I am asking that when we post about these conditions, we do so with sensitivity to and respect for our fellow SA members who are reading along. It is one thing to express our fear, confusion and rage about an individual who is abusing us and something else to make generaliztions about all people who have something like BPD. Even when we have not one bit of respect for an abuser in our own lives who has BPD or NPD, let's keep in mind what it would be like to read in here if we were the ones struggling through the reality of having one of these conditions, trying to change our behaviour and heal. When you read about personality disorders, there is plenty of information about how hard it can be to live with it - from the inside as well as from the outside. We need to allow space for people on both "sides" of the BPD diagnosis to share their stories and reach out for the support they need. This forum needs to be a safe space for everyone.</p>
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<p>Let me be clear that I am <em>not</em> saying that we should be more sensitive to or supportive of our abusers and what brought them to the way they are today. I am not saying that we cannot talk about how difficult it can be to be in relationship with someone who has a personality disorder and has no interest in getting help or changing their behaviour. I simply want to remind all of us that not everyone with a personality disorder is an abuser and this forum is likely to have members at any given time who are working with all their might to deal with the feelings and behaviours that comprise these disorders so that they <em>won't</em> become abusers.  That is the primary function and purpose of the Surviving Abuse forum at MDC - helping us to process how abuse impacts and affects our mothering.</p>
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<p>Thanks everyone.</p>
 

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<p> This thread is not a locked announcement so please respond and discuss if you need to <span><img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"></span></p>
 

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<p><span><img alt="grouphug.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/grouphug.gif">  I agree and want everyone here to feel it is a safe place.  Mental illness of any sort is difficult to live with and heal.  </span></p>
 

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<p>I would like to say something...but I know it's going to come off wrong...so please know I do not have ill-intentions...I just don't know how to say this...</p>
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<p>For me, at least, when I'm posting about my npd/bpd mother who abused me...I see them as separate things, sort of, but, yet again they are intertwined.  I know that there are people suffering from npd or bpd who do NOT abuse.  Additionally, there are vastly wide variations and degrees of npd and bpd (ranging from nearly harmless to straight up borderline-sociopathic). </p>
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<p>Discovering support for daughters of narcissistic mothers has been tremendously healing for me--putting a label on it that comes with information to understand about it has opened my body, emotions, thoughts, experiences up to life and healing again.  Yes, she was/is bpd/npd AND she left it untreated and did not seek to heal herself or make herself well which LEAD to her abusing me (and my siblings).  Understanding her mental illness (and how that lead to her abusing us) helps me protect myself (reminds me to keep our no-contact, unless she apologizes and goes to therapy with me), in understanding she CAN'T change (bpd is cureable--with great success of those who seek treatment, she is completely unwilling, therefore, she cannot change--in addition, I think npd is NOT cureable, at least that is my understanding).</p>
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<p>So, to the mamas who are suffering from mental illnesses, PLEASE seek treatment!!!  I guess my point is that because she left her mental illness unchecked (too prideful to seek treatment, among other things) that led to her abusive behavior.  I think that someone would have to be mentally unwell (with ANY kind of mental illness) to justify to themselves abusing another person.  But, just because you're mentally unwell, doesn't mean you're automatically going to be abusive.  I think that when someone who is mentally unwell is at their lowest/worst spot, they can't see what they're doing/saying...which is why I'm going to repeat: seek treatment if you are mentally ill (you would seek treatment if you were physically unwell, right?)...stop the cycle of abuse with you!!!  My mother, to this DAY claims she wasn't abusive to us--she didn't see or hear or care to reflect inward enough to see the damage she was causing.  She couldn't see because of her mental illness.</p>
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<p>So, I think that all abusers are mentally ill; but, not all of those who are mentally ill abuse.</p>
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<p>In my efforts to vent my experience, I was NEVER trying to imply that anyone here, who are active victims of abuse, is my abusive mother just because they have the same, or similar cluster-b-personality disorder(s).</p>
 

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<p>I find the labels helpful because they include detailed information of what to expect in the terms of behavior,  ie to being abandoned etc,    it is not common knowlege that someone who treats you horribly will not want you to leave,  the lay</p>
<p>public often expects that since someone was horrible to you they wanted you to leave... </p>
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<p>if i have ever offended anyone please accept this apology because no personal hurt feelings were intended</p>
 

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I, too, find it helpful to put a name and description to the mental illness that my abusers so clearly manifest. There are plenty of books out there aimed at children who were raised by people with personality disorders, but if you don't understand that maybe that's what your parents had, you're going to have trouble finding the books about it!<br><br>
My parents, like most unrepentant abusers, insist that they are healthy and fine and I'm the one with the problem. While that's a classic symptom of their personality disorder(s), it's also a huge personality FLAW, because they refuse to even entertain the possibility that they might have done anything wrong, or that there's anything wrong with their behavior. Someone who has taken the time to get a BPD/NPD diagnosis has already admitted that something is wrong, and I don't think a person like that is even in the same league as my abusers. My parents insist they don't need therapy, because there's nothing wrong with them. I expect that the mamas here who have been diagnosed with personality disorders are capable of taking that first, terrifying step of admitting there's a problem that needs to be treated.<br><br>
I'm deeply sorry if I've hurt or offended anyone here with my posts about my abusive NPD/BPD parents. It was unintentional and I'll be more careful in the future.<br><br><img alt="hug.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif"><img alt="hug.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif"><img alt="hug.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif">
 
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<p>for me I saw myself begin to act like my BPD mom, and that made me feel so so sad.  I can see the pattern, and I want it to stop.  What makes me sad about my mom, is that it is hard to remember anything about her in her relation to me that isn't almost a BPD stereotype-- or archetype.  I can see other things in her relationship to my siblings, friends, etc.  but me, nothing else from years and years.... I have a few warm memories as a child.  and that make me so sad.</p>
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<p>I love my mom, I just don't know how to relate to her now.... and protect myself from hurting. </p>
 

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<p>I believe my mother to have NPD. She has never seen a psychologist in her life, but all the symptoms are there and I have had so much support from children of narcissists bloggers. NPD, it seems, runs in families - through conditioning by a parent with NPD, you can either get NPD yourself or end up with lots of other problems. My mom did better than her mom, who probably did better than hers. I am trying to break the cycle. </p>
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<p>Anyone who has NPD and is seeking help or treatment is very courageous. I don't want to hurt anyone if I ever talk about my NPD mother on here, but she has sure left her mark on me. </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MittensKittens</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285571/everyone-please-read-this#post_16595311"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p> </p>
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<p>Anyone who has NPD and is seeking help or treatment is very courageous. I don't want to hurt anyone if I ever talk about my NPD mother on here, but she has sure left her mark on me. </p>
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<p><br>
I see a lot of myself in certain BPD characteristics, and it is hard to accept.  :( Let's help each other end the cycle.  (((hugs)))) mamas.</p>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>carmel23</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285571/everyone-please-read-this#post_16596438"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><p><br>
I see a lot of myself in certain BPD characteristics, and it is hard to accept.  :( Let's help each other end the cycle.  (((hugs)))) mamas.</p>
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It's hard to know what does more damage - actual narcissistic traits that children of narcissists can mimic sometimes, or reacting to the fears and lies which so many ACONs grew up with. I am NOT my mother. When I am stressed (which happens when I talk to her!), I can react very much like her though, toward my own children. That is why we have no contact now. </p>
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<p>What do you do to break the cycle? What do you do when you see BPD traits in yourself?</p>
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<p><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MittensKittens</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285571/everyone-please-read-this#post_16596466"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><p><br>
It's hard to know what does more damage - actual narcissistic traits that children of narcissists can mimic sometimes, or reacting to the fears and lies which so many ACONs grew up with. I am NOT my mother. When I am stressed (which happens when I talk to her!), I can react very much like her though, toward my own children. That is why we have no contact now. </p>
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<p>What do you do to break the cycle? What do you do when you see BPD traits in yourself?</p>
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I guess the only real bpd traits I see are sometimes extreme anger.  But learning about PBD has really been liberating, because I know it isn't me that is bad, guilty, etc.  But that my mom has an illness, and this is where the abuse stems from.  I feel empowered and like I can stop thinking it is me, and it isn't really her, but an illness that causes all the verbal/emotional abuse. So instead of internalizing the pain and thinking that I am a bad person, as she wants me to think, I know it is abuse.  So I can end the cycle of her abuse, my guilt, etc.</p>
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