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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28311281/

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Seventy percent of volunteers continued to administer electrical shocks - or at least they believed they were doing so - even after an actor claimed they were painful, Jerry Burger of Santa Clara University in California found. The obedience rates in the new study were only slightly statistically lower than in the notorious original experiments, which were conducted in the early 1960s by Yale University professor Stanley Milgram.
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Disturbing and not that surprising.
This is why I am not raising my children to be unquestioningly obedient-- but to be odedient to their own sense of conscience.
 

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We had to serve as test subjects in experiments for psychology 101 in college. It was a requirement of passing the course.
One of the experiments claimed that someone was getting shocks if I performed poorly on a series of short tests they had me taking.

I could hardly keep from laughing through the whole time.
It was so obviously faked.

1) If I had shown up and been told I was going to be shocked I would have refused.
2) The tests were easy and I knew I was scoring perfectly, yet they kept telling me I failed and the person was getting shocked.
3) In this case the person getting shocked was just someone I heard through a speaker, I didn't see them.

I didn't tell them I knew the whole thing was a giant fake from the beginning because I needed to get my credit for participating. So I waited until the end to tell the whole thing was obviously staged.

Maybe the people doing the study did a better job of convincing the participants that it was real, but I have a hard time believing people actually fell for this.
 

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I have always wondered what would happen if the Milgrim experiments were repeated in our time. My thought was it would be impossible to reproduce because it is such a widely known study and people would be wise to it.

Pumpkin - did you administer the "fake" shocks? Did you play along? Did you talk to other participants about what they knew?

Just extremely curious

Thanks
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kacymoose View Post
I have always wondered what would happen if the Milgrim experiments were repeated in our time. My thought was it would be impossible to reproduce because it is such a widely known study and people would be wise to it.

Pumpkin - did you administer the "fake" shocks? Did you play along? Did you talk to other participants about what they knew?

Just extremely curious

Thanks
We didn't administer anything. Just told that they were being done because we had failed. Then they played the tape through the speaker that they were pretending was an intercom to the next room. The whole thing was done in complete isolation and you never saw any other participants.

I played along only because I was 100% convinced it was fake and no one was being harmed. If I had any doubt I would have left.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kacymoose View Post
Pumpkin - so you had no control over whether of not the shocks were administer - plus you knew it was all fake.

Did other participants believe the shocks were real?
Yes, no control over the shocks. They were administered by the test proctor.
I was sure the whole thing was fake.
I don't know what other participants thought because I never saw anyone but the test proctor. It was just the two of us alone in a room.
 

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This is so interesting to me, I tracked down the study by Jerry Burger:

"People responding to the ads or flyers were phoned by a research assistant who conducted the initial screening procedure. Participants were first asked if they had been to college and, if so, if they had taken any psychology classes. The purpose of these questions was to screen out individuals who might be familiar with Milgram's obedience research. People who had taken more than two psychology classes were excluded from the study."

http://www.scu.edu/cas/psychology/fa...ng-Milgram.doc

I don't know that the screening process was stingent enough. I have only taken one psychology course in my life, and I am well aware of Milgram's research. But antecdote doesn't translate into data, so I guess I can't go by my own experience here.

On a side note, I do think if the experiment was successfully recreated - there would be similar results - so I'm not sure why I feel the need to question the experiment.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear View Post
Disturbing and not that surprising.
This is why I am not raising my children to be unquestioningly obedient-- but to be odedient to their own sense of conscience.
I agree...

I find it disturbing that people even participated. I can't imagine believing that it was actually happening as I was told, but...to even hear someone say "Someone will be shocked if you answer wrong" is enough to get me to walk out the door, real or not.

Sounds like something out of a horror movie.
 

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At one point, researchers brought in a volunteer who knew what was going on and refused to administer shocks beyond 150 volts. Despite the example, 63 percent of the participants continued administering shocks past 150 volts.
I don't doubt most people in the study believed they were actually experiencing a real experiment in which real people were being hurt. I fully agree with LionTigerBear's statement... I think that it is a huge part of being a parent, teaching children to think outside of the box, to realize just doing what you are told does not absolve you of the responsibility for your actions. Historically, genocides have proven the human willingness to commit attrocities because they were "told" to... here is to evolving, one generation at a time.
 

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How on earth was this allowed to pass IRB review? We were always taught in research classes that this and the Tuskegee experiments were the two reasons the IRB (Institutional Review Board) became federally mandated.... I can't figure out how on earth a "replica" of Milgram's study was even allowed today (unless it was actually nowhere near a replica...seriously, the original study was cruel. I've read it multiple times--the participants were traumatized and some were close to suicidal after they found out what they participated in.
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And this...

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The experiment surprised psychologists and no one has tried to replicate it because of the distress suffered by many of the volunteers who believed they were shocking another person.
isn't exactly true. It hasn't been replicated in the United States because it would be illegal and unethical to do so. Human research may not involve the types of risks that were in the Milgram study because that study showed the actual emotional trauma that can happen to participants.

Now, the premise of the study could likely be replicated. But an exact replication of the study? Not even legal...any university that would allow an exact replication of Milgram's study would likely have their research program disbanded ASAP for not implementing a proper IRB review system and allowing harmful human research without greater benefits than risks.

I may have to trace down this study to see just how close a replication it is...
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeKelly View Post
The experiment was diff. they stopped allowing shocks at 150 because past that seemed the point where the orig. participants got traumatized. It is all explained in the op link.
It still seems like they are towing the line even at that point... I still can't figure out where the IRB was in this, and what their thought process was. I know at my university, that type of project would never have even made it past the proposal stage!
 

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They were allowed to repeat the experiment? Wow! Seriously. That's like...

I mean the psych course I took, one of the main reasons we discussed Milgram was the ethics issue and why it wouldn't be allowed in this day and age...
 

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Here is some information about how they treated the participants due to ethical concerns from the link on post #10:

"We took several additional steps to ensure the welfare of our participants. First, we used a two-step screening process for potential participants to exclude any individual who might have a negative reaction to the experience. Second, participants were told at least three times (twice in writing) that they could withdraw from the study at any time and still receive their $50 for participation. Third, like Milgram, we administered a sample shock to our participants (with their consent) so they could see the generator was real and to obtain some idea of what the shock felt like. However, we administered a very mild 15-volt shock rather than the 45-volt shock Milgram gave his participants. Fourth, we allowed virtually no time to elapse between ending the session and informing participants that the learner had received no shocks. Within a few seconds of ending the study, the learner entered the room to reassure the participant he was fine. Fifth, the experimenter who ran the study also was a clinical psychologist who was instructed to end the study immediately if he saw any signs of excessive stress. In short, we wanted to take every reasonable measure to ensure that our participants were treated in a humane and ethical manner."
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kacymoose View Post
Here is some information about how they treated the participants due to ethical concerns from the link on post #10:

"We took several additional steps to ensure the welfare of our participants. First, we used a two-step screening process for potential participants to exclude any individual who might have a negative reaction to the experience. Second, participants were told at least three times (twice in writing) that they could withdraw from the study at any time and still receive their $50 for participation. Third, like Milgram, we administered a sample shock to our participants (with their consent) so they could see the generator was real and to obtain some idea of what the shock felt like. However, we administered a very mild 15-volt shock rather than the 45-volt shock Milgram gave his participants. Fourth, we allowed virtually no time to elapse between ending the session and informing participants that the learner had received no shocks. Within a few seconds of ending the study, the learner entered the room to reassure the participant he was fine. Fifth, the experimenter who ran the study also was a clinical psychologist who was instructed to end the study immediately if he saw any signs of excessive stress. In short, we wanted to take every reasonable measure to ensure that our participants were treated in a humane and ethical manner."
The problem I have with this is:

A) In Milgram's study, the participant seeing the person that was "shocked" caused even more emotional distress.

B) A sizable portion of distress happened long AFTER the experiement was over...it didn't happen during the experiment itself. Months, and even years down the road, people came to the realization about what "they did", and it caused severe emotional distress.

Although these days, most people know about Milgram's work--you hear about it in high school psychology, or at least in introduction psych courses in college, so I wonder just how many people figured it out. It doesn't take 2 psych courses to know who Milgram is.
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Am I wrong to think that people who would choose to shock another human being kinda deserve some trauma?


and along those lines, isn't it a good thing for people that easily swayed they feel they have to shock the other person to do a little soul searching and introspection as to personal behavior and motive? I almost think this experiment should be performed more!

(speaking as a non physc student who has no idea of the extent of trauma caused by prvs experiments)
 
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