[3happygirls]

Okay...to start, we are NOT dairy free, funny enough. I wish we were, because consuming dairy just doesn't make sense to me. But, it is one of those mainstream, "it's how I was raised", "how do we go on without cheese and milk" - kind of things. HOWEVER...in my effort to NOT consume all the hormones, thinking it's "wrong" to drink straight cow's milk (meant for baby cows, IMO), I started giving my girls soy milk after they were weaned (from formula, regretably). They are now 4 and won't drink anything BUT soy milk. I've turned them into soy milk SNOBS!!

If we're out and someone offers them milk, they'll say, "Is it soy milk or COWS MILK?? YUCK!?!" HA! So, I have started buying organic milk for cooking, dh, etc. When it's on sale, it's actually cheaper than soy ($$$)!! But, anyway...my question....why is it so nutritionally deficient (as I've seen stated here)? I know, it has less fat, a little less protein, etc, but in light of how I feel about my kids drinking a whole glass of milk intended for a calf....how bad is it...REALLY???

 

[staceyshoe]

There's a growing pool of research showing that unfermented soy (such as milk and tofu) can affect hormones and increase cancer risk. People get confused because there is so much conflicting info about soy, but that's because unfermented and fermented soy act very differently on the body. Fermented soy products such as miso and tamarin do not have the same estrogen-like effects on the body. HTH!

 

[3happygirls]

Hmmmm. Interesting. I hadn't heard that side of it. SO MANY conflicting reports about soy!! YEAH!! I just wonder what's "worse" in the long run (wonder if we'll ever know)...the reports and risks of soy or eating/drinking something that (I don't think) was intended for human consumption....cow's milk! Hmmm, hmmm, hmmm. I guess neither are what nature intended when you think about it. I know what it takes to process the soybean in order to achieve the milk stage....not a natural process AT ALL!! Any thoughts on the lesser of two evils?? ANYONE?

 

[kdmama33]

I think you will find many conflicting opinions about this on these boards. On one hand, you have those who are vegans/vegetarians, and will give you many reasons why cow milk is not an appropriate part of anyone's diet. Some of those same vegetarians/vegans will also happily espouse the myriad benefits of soy milk, or soy in any form. Some will tell you that soy milk is unnatural, that you should stick to more natural forms of soy, but that eliminating soy is not necessary. And some who don't eat soy at all.

Then, you'll have others (of which I am one) who will tell you that raw cow milk is full of enzymes, minerals, vitamins, etc. and that it is a nutritious, living food. Also, the fat in the milk helps you assimilate the vitamins and minerals in other foods you eat. Those same people will probably tell you that soy in any form is not great, because of the phytoestrogens. Some of them will tell you that soy needs to be fermented (miso, tempeh) in order to reduce the phytates which keep you from assimilating vitamins, minerals, etc. in your foods, and not just the soy foods, but it the other foods you eat as well. And there will be some who don't eat soy at all.

There really is a lot of conflicting information about soy ... and about dairy, for that matter. Personally, I think you have to examine all sides and make an informed decision for yourself. I believe that soy milk is more harmful to my children than cow's milk. I believe that raw, organic dairy is a wholesome, healthy food that improves the lives of myself and my family members. I would choose cow's milk over soy milk any day. But my beliefs are my own, based on my own research and, ultimately, my own gut instincts.

Clear as mud, huh?!?

 

[3happygirls]

Yup! Clear as mud.

Thanks for your reply, though. I found another thread over on the vegan side about soy. A REALLY great article about it (a couple, actually) and am STILL confused. I'm tempted to just JUMP into the raw milk thing, but don't know if my girls or dh will drink it. And I have so many ???s about it. I'm tempted to dump the whole soy thing, just b/c there have been more years of research about cow's milk than soy and before all the hormones and chemicals, etc., I don't know that it was so bad. Except for the fact that I believe it was created for...baby cows.

Can I use it in cooking just like paturized milk? Dumb ?? maybe. Also, all I can find on raw milk near me is goat's milk. Eeek. Don't know about that. Anyway. Found lots of info to sift through on the other thread. Thanks, all. Happy to entertain other opinions.

 

[ladywolf]

My concern with giving children large amount of soy and children is allergies.

My husband was given soy formula as a baby/toddler and has developed a soy allergy as an adult.

My gut says if something is a possible allergin, small quantities are better then large quantities.

 

[kdmama33]

Raw goat's milk might be a good thing for you to start with, actually. It is closer in composition to human breastmilk than cow's milk is, and the protein in goat's milk is more easily used by the human body than that in cow's milk. It has a bit of a different flavor than cow's milk, which might be an issue for your DH if he is used to the taste of cow's milk. Personally, I think it's a bit sweeter than cow's milk, which is good for my DS2 who seems to think everything he eats must be sweet.

 

[Laurel723]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3happygirls I'm tempted to just JUMP into the raw milk thing, but don't know if my girls or dh will drink it. And I have so many ???s about it.

If you can get raw milk, please, please please do it. ITA w/ kdmama33.

I would give my right arm to be able to get it. (I'm lefthanded already, in case you're wondering!

) We don't have a supplier close enough for me to access, and aren't in a position to keep a cow. (Maybe in the future? (fingers crossed)

Seriously, though, if you are worried about raw milk www.realmilk.com It has sources as well...

My dsd ate alot of soy-formula, was lactose intolerant, etc. and has tons of problems related to excess estrogen. She's 13.

 

[hapi2help]

GREAT thread!! This is so interesting....I read all of realmilk.com and will go to WF manana to buy some.

 

[kallyn]

I avoid both issues by drinking almond milk!

:

 

[TexasSuz]

Yeah, I worry all the time about my eight year old niece who drinks only soy (she is allergic to cow's milk). I hope there are no longer term effects in her case. Her mother refuses to listen to anything I say about the possible negative effects of it.

 

[puddingpop]

This is really interesting for me, because DS has been drinking soy formula (he's adopted; I tried unsuccessfully to induce lactation) for the last five months, when we discovered he had dairy allergies.
If soy is not a good idea, I'm not sure what the heck to be giving him (he's almost one year old). Any thoughts? (3happygirls, I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm really curious.)

 

[aniT]

My cousin in 40 something and his mom gave him Goats Milk when he was a baby because he was allergic to diary. (I am not sure if he was BF and was given the goats milk later or if he only drank goats milk.)

I tried to give some I bought at the store to DD who I believe to have diary allergies (she wheezes when given dairy or when I ate things like ice cream and such while she was bfing.) but she refused to drink it. Now that she had to wean before she was ready (my milk dried up around 12 weeks pregnant) she wants to guzzle soy milk all the time. I only let her have one glass a day due to the fact they feel the need to pack it full of calcium which causes anemia.

:

DH is quasi vegan (he decided he would still eat eggs but nothing else.. whatever) and doesn't like Almond milk so I am not exactly sure what else to buy. I did buy come coconut cream to make coconut milk with, but the cream gets chunky when cold and no one likes it. So I am not sure what else to guy.

 

[aniT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puddingpop This is really interesting for me, because DS has been drinking soy formula (he's adopted; I tried unsuccessfully to induce lactation) for the last five months, when we discovered he had dairy allergies. If soy is not a good idea, I'm not sure what the heck to be giving him (he's almost one year old). Any thoughts? (3happygirls, I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm really curious.)

you know what, now that I think of it, I think I "might" have seen goats milk formula at the store.

 

[craftynsewon]

My children had soy milk infant formula because they couldn't handle the regular infant formula... I've also drank soy milk in the past because of lactose intolerance HOWEVER yesterday I found the following link on one of my microbiology groups and if you read a couple of individual stories posted you will probably never want your kids to drink soy again.... A little more research after discovering this yesterday also brought to light some explanations why my own son's teeth literally fell apart.. soy milk contains much higher levels of flouride than other infant formula do.. it's called flourosis or something like that which destroys the teeth.

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

Apparently soy mimics estrogen in the body and it can cause a lot of medical problems among those a variety of cancers... what we have been told is healthy for us may once again not be so good for us.

 

[SortaCrunchy]

To the OP - I feel so ignorant, too! DD seems to be lactose-intolerant and cannot handle cow's milk at all. I have tried offering calcium-enriched soy milk because I thought it was a good alternative. YIKES! Fortunately, she won't take it at all. (The only milk for her, apparently, is mama's milk.) Anyway, she can eat cheese and yogurt and eats a lot of that, so I think I have her calcium needs covered.

BUT - all of this is to ask are the main dangers just in soy MILK, or are we talking tofu, too?

 

[guestmama9924]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kallyn I avoid both issues by drinking almond milk! :

I avoid both sides by saying milk is for nurslings. Drink water!

 

[3happygirls]

No problem, puddinpop! Still relevant.

I have seen Organic formula at the stores, too (not using formula right now), but wish they would have had that when my older two were not nursing. What to do about the dairy-allergic babes? I have heard that goat's milk would be just fine in the place of formula (even better), but very pricey!! My friend got a prescription from her pediatrician so that it would be covered by WIC. But, what about TODDLERS?? I know for me and dh goat's milk would be fine...I just don't think my girls (4 yrs) will drink it. They've had some of our friend's goat milk and their reaction was pretty funny. I wonder if they'd react the same way if I didn't mention the "goat" part. Almond milk, I don't think would have the fat they need, PLUS isn't that a pretty entailed process? Soaking, blending, draining the grainy part out only to get a small amount of milk? Also, $$$$? Just wondering.

 

[mamabohl]

to the OP...I have a couple suggestions but haven't read all the replies so forgive me if I repeat someone. As far as types of milk to buy if you can't get raw then low-heat pasteurized (and NEVER ultra-pasteurized or homogenized), hormone and antibiotic free is a good choice. Do you think your girls would notice if you did half raw milk/ half soy? And then slowly increase the % of cow milk until they're drinking it all cow milk? Or if they just won't drink it I think it'd be better to stop getting them soy milk and try to get them their animal fats through other sources, like rich bone stocks, lots of butter (raw butter if possible), eggs, and organic meats. The suggestion of almond milk isn't a bad one, if they like it they could have it sometimes (and you can make that!), but it wouldn't replace animal fat. HTH

ETA one more suggestion - your girls might drink cow milk in a smoothie!

To the woman asking about what to feed her 1 yo baby instead of soy formula - in the book, Nourishing Traditions there are 2 recipes for formula. I know, I know, when you think homemade formula you think of karo syrup and evaporated milk to save $$, but I'm talking about a truly healthy (in fact, healthier than store bough IMO) formula. One recipe is raw milk based, you could try raw or low-heat pasturized cow's milk instead for a baby with dairy sensitivities/allergies/intolerance. The other recipe is meat-based. I know that sounds wierd too...but when you think about it, soy formula isn't really milk, it's a bean drink. Human milk is animal based...so wouldn't a meat broth based formula be closer to what the baby really needs? If you'd like the recipes you can PM me, I'm not sure if I can post them. I'd suggest getting the book though, it's great! Soy formula also has no cholesterol, which babies need for brain growth, so if you do find that that is still your best/safest choice for your child, be sure he's getting lots of animal fat in other sources. HTH!

 

[mamabohl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daceysmomma To the OP - I feel so ignorant, too! DD seems to be lactose-intolerant and cannot handle cow's milk at all. I have tried offering calcium-enriched soy milk because I thought it was a good alternative. YIKES! Fortunately, she won't take it at all. (The only milk for her, apparently, is mama's milk.) Anyway, she can eat cheese and yogurt and eats a lot of that, so I think I have her calcium needs covered. BUT - all of this is to ask are the main dangers just in soy MILK, or are we talking tofu, too?

I believe (and like 1 of the pp said we all believe differently, lol) that almost all soy products are dangers...I do think it's ok to have a smal amount of naturally fermented soy products, like soy sauce, miso and tempeh. But tofu, TVP, soy milk, bacos, etc. all still have the phytates that inhibit absorption of the nutrients.