[mamapajama]

I'm not sure what forum to post this in. I'll try here first.

My DH, and his father and brother want to take my DS (2yrs) on a weekend camping trip. They state it is to be a guy thing. A man's trip. I am really bothered by this for a few reasons, the biggest being that why should I be excluded because I am a woman. The reality is I can't go because I am 8!/2 months pregnant, however, this has been something DH's mom brought up a long time ago. She thinks it is important for the men to spend time together. The fact that I am about to have another baby has just given them all the perfect timing to do it without me. I have been very adamant from the beginning that I think it is sexist, and especially because I am the most avid hiker and camper in the family, it makes no sense for me to stay home, and it will be DS's first backpack camping trip. So the family now wants to go after I have the baby. That way, I absolutely can't go. My DH new approach was "well you can't go because of the baby. Why should DS and I miss out on a camping trip?" This whole hting just feels wrong to me. And, what if I have another boy? I will be the only woman in the family. It seems wrong to share family experiences based on gender, expecially when you have all boys, yet I want my DH to feel free to do special trips with DS. Do men really need to bond with other men? Is this important to a child growing up? And if so, where does that leave the lone woman in the family???

 

[dotcommama]

Hmmm. . . I can see that it really bothers you, but I have to say for me it would not be a big deal. If you like to camp and hike can you guys go together another time? I can understand being upset if they are trying to tell you that all camping trips are for men only and you will always be excluded, but if it's a once in a while thing, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. In fact I would think it's sweet that grandpop and your dh want to include ds in there little bonding ritual.

The thing that would bother me more is that they seem to be scheming behind your back to not include you - that isn't cool at all. They should make the plans with your blessing, not behind your back trying to schedule it when you cannot come.

 

[CraftyMommaOf2]

ITA about the scheming...heads would roll for that. About the guys only trips...definitely little boys need these times. Most kids get all sorts of one on one bonding with mama (bfing, staying home with them, not to mention the time in the womb, etc) and they rarely get time alone with daddy. Some of my dh's favorite camping trips were boy scout trips and ones with him, his bro and their dad. They just let loose a bit and got to be like little men.
Anyhoo, I don't think you should be hurt or jealous of "male bonding"

But, I would kick some a$$ over the plotting that's going on in your family.

Good luck with the babe!!!!

 

[SamuraiEarthMama]

i would be fine with a guys-only thing (heck, that gives you a couple days to really splurge on yourself! make it you and your gal pals... movies, pedicures, cafes, bookstores, get your hair done... have a ball!).

i'd be a little concerned about the age... i have two boys. the oldest at age 2 would not have been at all safe on a camping trip, but the second was an "older" 2, and probably would have been fine.

i'd sit down with dh and let him know that the scheming isn't cool... bonding is nice and all that, but everyone needs to be included on plans and scheduling. tell him to put himself in your shoes... how would he feel?

and finally... (i'm saying this as gently as i can, because i'm 35 weeks along myself and guilty of the same thing!)... try to remember that our bodies are full of all kinds of wild hormones right now. i know i'm bursting into tears over stupid things... stuff that wouldn't faze me in the least at other times. be kind to yourself, ask dh for some understanding and slack, and try to enjoy these last few weeks of relative peace!

hugs to you, mama...

katje

 

[BAU3]

I am the lone female in my family. There have been a few instances where my presence was not wanted...I did feel a bit resentful, but I als understand their desire for "guy time". I thiunk its a wonderful ritual for them.

Think of it this way.. There are alot of children out there who could only wish to have a dad,grampa and uncle to bond with. Your son is very lucky.

Howver... the scheming wouldn't go over well with me, either.

 

[CookieMonsterMommy]

I agree w/the suggestion about the girls night out thing, but shoot, make it a camping trip as well if you want! I have days w/my son that are "Mommy and DeVante days" only....I also leave for the evening to have "Girls night" w/my fem. friends, sometimes ds stays w/grandpa because mommy and daddy want to have an adult night w/adult friends and adult movies (edited to add: lol, not that kind of party! I realized how that sounded-hehehe. I mean adult movies like Texas Chainsaw...28 days later, etc)....ds's dad has "Man time" with ds. Part of bonding, needed for all ages/sexes.

I also think it's important for boys to feel like they're part of the family, and boys nights can be a way of showing that, make him feel special and grown up. For my son, that's playing basketball with daddy and some of his male friends, or football, where he "tackles" daddy's 200 pound friend, lol. It's all good clean fun, a learning experience and vital to his childhood.

I think it's all cool, as long as there's no girl bashing going on.... for example, I'd NEVER let ds stay w/my dad's side of the family. They are very misogynistic and stereotypical. Also, I'd expect there not to be biased discussion of roles that do not adhere to your and dh's beliefs (i.e. Grandpa saying something like "If your mom was here, she'd be in the cabin/tent cooking the fish we caught" or "Good thing your aunt didn't come! Girls are too slow at hiking." etc) A young boy is very impressionable, esp. when dealing w/people he looks up to as a role model of sorts. Buit if it's just wilderness, fishing, campfires, why not? And as long as it's balanced with some "female" stuff eventually, I see no probs.

But, yeah, I'd be upset at the scheming...and also, not to contradict what I just said, if you had a dd around the same age too, I'd expect her to be invited, or a similar trip be planned for her (yes, camping too).

Best Wishes, Kelly

 

[sadean]

I am the lone woman in my family as well (this after having grown up in a predominately female household of 4 girls, 1 boy, a mom and a step-dad). I don't have a problem with the "guys only" activities that take place, mostly because I have never been officially excluded...their activities just don't really interest me (going to gaming conventions). I would be annoyed if I was specifically excluded, but probably not because it is "guy" time, as much as the act of exclusion. I would simply express that, as well as the scheming...I can only guess that you have expressed your displeasure before at the idea of a guys only event and perhaps that is why the boys thought they had to scheme. BUT, it doesn't make it right, so I would call DH on that.

2 yo does seem a little young to be on a camp away from mama trip, but I have taken my kids as young as 5 months on multiday camping trips, so it is not so much the camping as the being away from mama. How long are they proposing to be gone?

 

[MomInFlux]

It hasn't happened yet in my house, but DH is into the idea of "guys" time with DS, and I think it's great. Part of that is that DH likes to camp and I'm not really a camper. Also, that will give me some special time with DD while they're gone. And if I were to have 2 boys, I would be the recipient of some very rare and welcome alone time.

That said, if I were an avid hiker/camper, I would have a problem with feeling excluded. If I knew there would be future family trips, then I think that would take care of the problem with the guys-only trips. BUT, I would be very upset, pregnant or not, with missing out on DS's first camping trip (if I were a camper...). Also, 2 years old is awfully young for a guys-only camping trip. I know my DS would not have been ready to go without Mom. In fact, when DH and I were talking about future camping (I'll go, I just won't instigate), we planed on starting with back yard camping trips. 'K, I'm just rambling now, but I don't think it's pregnancy hormones that are entirely responsible for you feeling upset with your DH and the camping situation.

 

[MamaBug]

For me the only reason I would have a problem with it is that it is your ds first time going. I hate missing anything that they do for the first time, kwim. I am one that thinks alone daddy time is great. However knowing that you really WANT to go and they are trying to scheme so that you can't go just plain sucks. I would have a long talk with dh about that and try to make him see that while alone time is fine, you should not be excluded from important family events such as yours sons first time camping

 

[captain optimism]

My objection to this idea is simple: the child is two years old! Unless you feel incredibly confident in your dh's and FIL's ability to keep a two year old safe, PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN. I mean really!

If they really want to do a special men-only thing

with this little toddler, they can take him for a day hike.

When he's older, if they want to take him for a special trip this way, I'd say sure.

 

[Graceoc]

I think 'male bonding' time with daddy and grandpa sounds great! I wouldn't care so much for the scheming part....but as long as you all talked about it in advance then it is good. I know my DS LOVES having alone time with DH - espically with being home with me all day.

As far as the age things goes - I think that really depends on your child. My DS would have been more then ready to go away at that age - and in fact it did with my IL's for a week....but some 2's wouldn't be ready.

I also have to say what makes everyone think that Dad and Grandpa couldn't keep him safe? Are they not capable of such things? That sounds a bit sexist to me! In my experience my DH and his Dad are sometimes MORE cautious when taking the kids out then I am - espically my FIL...so cut them some slack - if they are up for it then they are capable!

 

[mamawanabe]

just hope you don't have a girl. I remember my dad doing special father-son stuff with my brother (fishing, going to see western movies), and it hurt me. I am still bitter about it. In fact, it was that kind of gender preference (oh, and I have lots more stories - my brother was the only son of an only son), that makes me want only girls.

I think spending time with daddy only is fine. I think even sone time with grandpa and daddy alone is fine. But if the PURPOSE is "boys only," well that would bother me and could bother my daughters (as it clearly bothers you). Further, if it bothers you, than your family should take that seriously and not scheme around it.

I think what is especially bothersome in this case is that they are choosing an activity you lOVE and excluding you becuase of your gender. It would happen more naturally if they choose something you weren't into, but they were. Man, imagine me telling DH that I am going out for icecream and beer with my mom and his daughter, but he can't come cause it is girls only (he loves ice cream and beer more than anything,

). Then imagine me waiting till he is stuck on the couch recovering for surgery to do it.

 

[Marsupialmom]

I see nothing wrong with boys only. This is bonding one on one time. There is nothing wrong with that.

But in all fairness things like this should happen with girls also. I never was jealous of my dad's "guys" only things because I knew I would have a weekend.

The scheming part would bug me a little but obviously it is very important for your husband to spend time with HIS child.

Please take time to read "The Wonder of Boys" by Michael Gurian.

Actually, any child specialist will tell you one on one time with each parent is important. Father's have harder time getting this. Even Dr. Sears talks about finding one on one time with his children.

 

[nikirj]

Am I the only one that has a problem with the age? At 2 I dunno...I would trust my DH but I know that a lot of mamas wouldn't (my DH watches the kids more closely than I do).

I see no problem with it - like someone else said, it isn't like they are saying you can't come ever, just that they want this one. So go with just you and another mama friend sometime (and your DD's), it will be the same idea, right? My dad/brothers and uncles/male cousins used to go on trips, and all the girls would get together at the same time - maybe you can use the time for something special like that?

My DH and I split up and each take one kid somewhere a lot. It is valuable time because of the more focussed attention that each child gets.

 

[srain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graceoc I also have to say what makes everyone think that Dad and Grandpa couldn't keep him safe? Are they not capable of such things? That sounds a bit sexist to me!

Thanks; that was driving me nuts! Unless nursing is an issue, I consider it a real PROBLEM if a father can't be trusted with his own kids.

I like kids having individual one-on-one time with each parent; however, I am really against pointedly single sex events. I will not even attend all-women bridal showers, though, so that might show you that I lean toward the kind of obsessive/ dogmatic end of the scale here.

 

[Aura_Kitten]

in short:

Quote:

Do men really need to bond with other men? Is this important to a child growing up?

yes, and yes.

Quote:

where does that leave the lone woman in the family???

alone to enjoy a quiet house for a weekend. why not invite over some girlfriends and have a girl's-only weekend while the guys have their boy-time?

 

[onlyboys]

I think 2 is too young also.

My 8 year old just got back from a weekend at my dad's farm--loved it, guy stuff all around, but my 2.5 year old stayed home with me... There's plenty of time for male bonding, etc., later.

 

[mamawanabe]

Guess I am still really bothered that the OP doesn't get to do something she wants to do because of her gender. It just brings back old hurts of when I was excluded from activities with my dad, activities that were father-son only. Yes, your son should have one-on-one time with his father and maybe even father-grandpa-grandson time, but it should come about more naturally. There will be an activity they are intersted in doing that you are not and/or there will be a time you just don't feel like doing something; it shouldn't be something you LOVE like camping.

And what if you have a girl? They are not going to have father-grandpa-grandaughter only nights; she will feel it when she is excluded (believe me).

Yes, he will get a lot from spending time with his male role models, but only if people aren't feeling excluded (as you are). There is a way for them to get thier all-guys time AND for you not to feel excluded, and the camping trip isn't it.

 

[Aura_Kitten]

Quote:

And what if you have a girl?

... she should schedule girl-girl camping trips only then...?

 

[mamawanabe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by klothos ... she should schedule girl-girl camping trips only then...?

What if her son wants to go camping instead of renting movies with daddy and grandpa? Too bad, its girls only, he got his guys only camping trip a month ago, the night dd cried for an hour strait because she wanted to be camping instead of making cookies with grandma and mom. The minute someone feels excluded and left out (as the OP does) the benefit of gender only isn't worth it for the family as a whole

My point is that if someone is feeling excluded, it isn't right. There is a way for the dad and granddad to get what they want (all boy time), but the camping trip isn't it since it is making teh OP feel like sh eis missing something.