[hummingbear]

A thread about talking to parents-to-be and their dilemma about circ had me wondering......

Friends of mine chose to circ their boy I think primarily because of fear of him being teased later on.
They knew clearly that my son was not circ'd. I did not know that they had chosen to until I saw their sons reddened penis during a diaper change.

So I wonder if I had suggested to them.......
Leave your son intact ... and
Be motivated to teach others so that more boys are left intact.
Be motivated to teach your child self-esteem.

 

[ebensmama]

I agree w/ your philosophy 110%...but I really think some parents think it's too much work to go against the cultural norms. I tried to delicately bring it up with friends of ours expecting a son, and I actually got ridiculed for even debating the subject and seeking out information to make the decision I thought was best. The mom-to-bes response to me was something on the lines of, "Ugh. I don't have time to care about stuff like that. Everyone else has it done, my kid's having it done. In fact, I didn't even ask DH. Whatever. Why waste the energy doing the research and then having to explain why you chose for him to be different from everyone else."

BUT you never know. The mom I talked to happened to not care at all about the issue of her son's penis. I'm sure there are other moms/dads who are more on the fence (as opposed to completely indifferent) and could learn a lot from POVs like ours, and possibly change their minds!

 

[Frankly Speaking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebensmama I'm sure there are other moms/dads who are more on the fence (as opposed to completely indifferent) and could learn a lot from POVs like ours, and possibly change their minds!

I can tell you without equivocation that just the members of this board have saved hundreds if not thousands of boys. The parents we have helped have ranged all of theway from "I hadn't even thought about it" to "We are going to do it and you can't change our minds." We made them think about it and we made them change their minds.

We are having an even farther ranging effect than parents as well. We are supporting parents suing the doctors and teaching doctors on the proper care of the intact penis and our efforts are reaching all of the way to the top. All of our medical organizations are having to seriously respect the information we are putting out as evidenced by the inclusion of one of our own, Ron Goldman, on the AAP's Taskforce on Circumcision and the recent position statements from the CPS/Saskatchewan and British Columbia.

Do not underestimate the effect our efforts are having. We are having a tremendous impact. Just the change in statements of the CPS will save thousands of boys every year and there are hundreds of sites on the internet where this is being discussed thanks to what we have started.

Frank

 

[Kerlowyn]

<<edited a bit, my post was a reply to the troll who's post used to be before mine>>

sorry, but my intact sons are the normal ones here
I doubt that any of their friends will be ridiculing them.
My 11 year old knows what other parents have done to his friends, he knows he was left alone.
With the circ rates being what they are, and dropping, my sons won't be by far the only intact boys in the locker room

 

[house elf]

Quote:

Whatever you do, don't let him find out that he's different from all his friends, or that he doesn't have to stay that way if he doesn't want to. Let him find out the hard way, in the locker room, and be forced to live with the ridicule every day.

Actually, I plan to tell my son often why we left him intact and the benefits of it. I also plan to explain what was done to his circumcised friends and what they are missing - but also that it isn't their fault. I would be outraged if my son ever ridiculed another child for any reason, much less something that was out of the other child's control.

I'm not sure what your situation is and I don't expect a reply... but tell me, were you one of the circumcised guys in your high school, daily ridiculing your intact classmates? If so, why? What did you gain from it?

If you are the parent of a circumcised boy, do you plan to teach him never to ridicule another child over his circumcision status? I certainly hope so.

 

[woobysma]

My son already knows
1) he's different than some of his friends
and 2)he didn't have to be................
and he's still horrified at the idea of having his penis cut and has thanked me for not doing that to him.

But, then again, we value a person's character in my family, not just how they look when they're naked.

 

[LavenderMae]

Troll troll go away and don't come back another day!!!

 

[jessemoon]

When making the circumcision decision while I was pregnant w/ds, we asked my younger brother (now 24) who is intact for his feelings about it.

I asked him if (being an athelete who spent time in a locker room quite a bit during adolescence) he was ever teased and he said that he can't even remember anybody noticing/remarking on it, let alone teasing him. I also asked him if he minded looking different than our father (circed).My DH is circed and was a little concerned about that aspect. And my brother said that it didn't bother him at all, and after early childhood he didn't hang out naked with my dad and he never thought about it one way or the other.

It was a slightly awkward conversation to have w/his big sister

, but he was very clear that he was fine w/being intact. I finally asked him if he had a son, would he consider circing him and he said "What the hell for?"....

I was opposed to the circ. idea from the beginning but my DH was on the fence and the conversation w/ my bro clinched it. It is also important to remember that numbers of intact boys are increasing...it's not so wierd anymore.

 

[woobysma]

Yeah, I don't buy the teasing stories..... I'm trying to picture guys I knew in high school standing around naked and one guy saying "hey man, I was just looking at your dick and noticed it doesn't look like mine" ..................... um, I'm not a guy, but I'm having a hard time believing that happens in real life........ it would be like one of us commenting on how another girl's nipples were different - just wouldn't happen.

 

[sahli29]

My brother is 36,intact,and never had any issues with teasing.Who in their right mind would even encourage their sons to get a circumcision to avoid possible teasing?It is used as a excuse at birth,but would those same parents circ an normal cihild if they were getting teased?Do we now also change hair color and give breast implants to our teen daughters when they get teased?The kid would then get teased for being dumb enough to chop parts of his penis off.

sara

 

[Kim22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by woobysma Yeah, I don't buy the teasing stories..... I'm trying to picture guys I knew in high school standing around naked and one guy saying "hey man, I was just looking at your dick and noticed it doesn't look like mine" ..................... um, I'm not a guy, but I'm having a hard time believing that happens in real life........ it would be like one of us commenting on how another girl's nipples were different - just wouldn't happen.

Maybe I just went to a really mean high school or something? There was a guy there (the only one that I ever heard of) who wasn't circ'd. Everyone in the school knew it...the guys in the locker room made sure of it.

This is why my DH is having a hard time agreeing to leaving our son intact. Hopefully this area (we're in the circ'ing midwest) will have changed by the time our son goes to school! I don't want him to be the ONLY guy in the school who is "different" even if it is better!

 

[Frankly Speaking]

He won't be, Kim and by talking to other mothers in your area, you can increase the numbers of intact boys in the area. When people know the truth of circumcision, it stops making any sense at all. Most people will get a grasp of this. It just makes sense. That doesn't mean that they all won't circ. The percieved cultural norms are just too strong for some of them but there will be plenty that will seriously consider the issues and will do the research and will decide to leave their sons intact. Each one that does will influence other moms who will influence other moms and so on.

Frank

 

[Sarah]

Kim- I want to tell you that hearing people say things like what you are saying makes me feel very upset. You are a grown up. Your child is YOUR responsibility. If deep in your heart you believe that this school where you are going to ask your child spend his childhood is so evil and full of hate that you feel compelled to cut off a piece of his body as a desperate measure to buy him a little slack from the meatgrinder of social dimination and mob rule... why on earth are you thinking that this is a place for his EDUCATION?

I mean, this is like getting a chastity belt for your daughter so you can put her in a daycare where a known pedophile is employed. If you KNOW that there is EVIL there... you don't just try to put some armor on the kid... you don't sent them in there alone in the first place!

So you circumcise your dork kid. Circumcised dork. Too bad his penis is only an inch long... because he is still being sexually harassed. Too bad he didn't grow any pubic hair yet- cause he's a girl. Too bad he has a big circumcised dick.. because he has acne. Too bad he's not a jock, because everyone else is whipped. It sure sucks that he has freckles... or glasses, or braces, or is skinny, or chubby, or a stutter, or is knows a few MORE words that the average kid in his class, or his parents can't afford the latest gameboy of 2012 or he wet his pants once in Kindergarden and no one has let him live it down since, or his locker is next to the special ed classroom and he is retard by default, or his brother is in special ed, or he lives next door to the kid in special ed, or his last name rhymes with the name of the kid in special ed, or his first name IS the name of the kid in special ed, or HE is in special ed... or or OR!!! You think you can give him a easy ride through lord of the flies hell with a circumcision?

If you think that the enviornment inside that building is so vicious that he is going to be subjected to sexual harassment and hazing... why don't you do something to ensure that by the time your child is old enough to go to school... that the school is a safe place for a child TO BE?

Forget hoping that enough other people buffer your decisions with their own similar decisions (a mini-mob) to soften the crush of the circumcised mob... why not step outside that mindset all together and work for REAL social change?

The next time someone drops "the locker room" hint... how about you FLY OFF THE HANDLE- "HOW DARE YOU! try to intimidate and coerce me to do things to MY CHILD in order to cover up the HORROR that never should have happened to all those other children!"

At this point it's not even about circumcision... it's about child sacrifice to a culture which treats children inhumanely... and encourages children to be inhumane, and expects it of them... sets them up for it. They are writing up the test of your dedication is how much of your child, of his life... you will lay on their corporate altar. Pop quiz- are you ready? They will test your boundries daily. Today it's circumcision, tomorrow it will be a frat house gang rape... "It's your turn or you're out" . How much body, how much blood, how much time, how much spirit will you let them have?

Abusing
Staying under the radar
Being abused

Even this middle gound HOPE... that you child will "stay under the radar" of the abusers... it's hell. It's bad for your soul. It's the SS troops of the Nazi army... it's the "good" people who keep the powerful full of power by paying their dues and not defending the abused...

Staying under the radar in school... you graduate to be parents who are still trying to stay under the radar... considering circumcising your son because you witnessed someone be sexually harassed.

Why don't you go visit the superintendent of the school and ask that superintendent what to do. You are going to defer the next 15 years of your lives and your children's lives to the tone of the enviornment that person sets and tolerates, so why not just let them make the decision? If the school is already dominating your family life and decisions... and your children aren't even in school yet- if you are still being held under the thumb of the bullies you were exposed to years ago (if their damage is that lasting) - why not just let them have the parenting decisions right now? Ask the super if the bullies still rule the school, and then ask the super what you should do.

Love Sarah

 

[TigerTail]

i love you, sarah!

suse

 

[LavenderMae]

Sarah, you have got down to the real issue, great post!!!

 

[Kim22]

Sarah- I must not be making myself clear because I keep getting "yelled" at about my posts. I am not going to circumcise my son...I'm not even considering it! I was simply replying to woobysma's comment about how she can't picture kids standing around checking each other out in the locker room. I was only stating that I knew it sounds silly, but it actually does go on. I was never in a mens locker room, but my husband was for a lot of years. He's told me what goes on in there. You're 'preaching to the choir' if you're trying to convince me not to circ, but I will use some of what you said to convince my DH that it's the right decision.

Thank you for your kind reply, Frank!

 

[hummingbear]

I'm sorry Kim. i too have noticed that your posts keep being interpreted that you might circumcise. On the up side of this, maybe the universe is giving you practice sessions at saying "no" for some unknown or unpredictable event.

 

[Kim22]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingbear I'm sorry Kim. i too have noticed that your posts keep being interpreted that you might circumcise. On the up side of this, maybe the universe is giving you practice sessions at saying "no" for some unknown or unpredictable event.

Thank you!

Maybe I should put it in my signature line!