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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Noticed that nowadays people seem to take offence so easily.

Apparently, some people are upset about comments Del made during a meal with parents of autistic children.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4nCHU9ijtVGLTNwX2doVXVDc0E/view?pref=2&pli=1
An important point is that the parents were not at all offended. Del seems to be man of empathy and compassion for autistic children and their parents.
It seems obvious to me that this was a private meal. I don't think things said during a private discussion are anything that we need to concern ourselves with.

This is a great talk regarding this subject:
 

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Well, freedom of speech also includes the right to react to others' speech. And freedom of speech does *not* include the right to be free from consequences of that speech.
 

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Well, freedom of speech also includes the right to react to others' speech. And freedom of speech does *not* include the right to be free from consequences of that speech.
I love the way pro-vaxers invoke consequences...consequences that they, themselves are creating, pushing and using to control the speech and activities of others.
 
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Yeah, if someone compared my child to a chimpanzee in private, I wouldn't be pleased.

And it's kind of ironic that you seem to have taken this topic from a forum you aren't invited to in order to discuss a lack of privacy for Del Bigtree.
 

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I love the way pro-vaxers invoke consequences...consequences that they, themselves are creating, pushing and using to control the speech and activities of others.
Not every disagreement is a scheme for evil vaccinators to oppress vaccine critics.
 

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Just goes to show that anti/non-vaxers will defend almost anything as long as the person who said it is anti-vaccine.

Switch "autistic children" for any other child and tell me that the comparison is not offensive. Children with Down syndrome, black children, Asian children, disabled children, etc. Comparing any child to a dog or chimp is beyond offensive.
 

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Also, this was not a "private" conversation. They openly recorded it and put it up on their public youtube channel.
 

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Talk about pulling something out of context.

Wow!

Del was struggling to express something difficult. He said himself that it was coming out wrong and backed out of what he had said. The people he was talking with pulled him into a more realistic discussion, which is a good thing.

If Del had insisted that he was on the right track and started yelling at the other people that they needed to agree with his characterization, then, yes, he would be terribly out of line and a monstrous person.

That isn't what happened.

Turning it into a big thing shows just how fanatical the pro-vaccine can be. Not you ladies of course. But I can see this inflated into total hysteria. On purpose.
 

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And it's kind of ironic that you seem to have taken this topic from a forum you aren't invited to in order to discuss a lack of privacy for Del Bigtree.
http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1549081-vaccination-forum-guidelines.html
No forum or support groups owns a topic, but individual members should not post the same topic in multiple sections. When a similar topic is started it should in no way mention the other similar topic nor should it comment on comments made in another section.
Maybe you should re-read the rules, no section "owns" a topic.



I can assume here most live in a bubble and have zero interaction with close friends or family members with autistic children. Ever sat in an intimate conversation with autistic parents? I have, this is NOTHING! Many would be shocked to attend a state convention if this works some up.

Ever have your BFF (who's child is autistic) unload after being up 48+ hours straight? Once you have been in my shoes we can talk.

I'm sure if this shocked many they would be clueless to know the language medical professionals use among their own!

ETA- want to talk about animals? How about Temple Grandin and her squeeze machine? MOO! IF this was a thread on putting children into a wooden box and forcing pressuring on them, I'm sure many would flip out too...........:dizzy
 

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Not every disagreement is a scheme for evil vaccinators to oppress vaccine critics.
Let me get this straight. You are admitting that vaccine enthusiasts pass laws to, for example, deprive children of access to school and then make fun of people for calling such mandates "coercion" or "force" or "deprivation of education", instead describing it as a "consequence of someone's choices". Leaving out that for many years exemptions made it perfectly possible for children who hadn't had every possible vaccine on the schedule to attend school and that the "consequences" are the result of choices made by the vaccine enthusiasts, not "consequences" of the choices made by the parents.

Have I got that right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Del was struggling to express something difficult. He said himself that it was coming out wrong and backed out of what he had said.
My understanding is that what he was trying to express was a bit like when we are puzzled about why our pet cat (or dog) did a certain thing. Similarly, the parent is unlikely to get an answer if they ask an autistic child why he or she did something (puzzling).

He definitely wasn't trying to be offensive and equate autistic children with dogs or chimps.
 

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My understanding is that what he was trying to express was a bit like when we are puzzled about why our pet cat (or dog) did a certain thing. Similarly, the parent is unlikely to get an answer if they ask an autistic child why he or she did something (puzzling).

He definitely wasn't trying to be offensive and equate autistic children with dogs or chimps.
Well he realized that it was coming out wrong and sounding offensive and he said so.

I've put my foot in my mouth a few hundred times in my life. Yes, if Del were a bit more careful and less open he wouldn't have put that particular video up, realizing that the vaccine fanatics would use it to attack him.
 

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Do either of you actually think that Del Bigtree was SERIOUSLY saying that children with autism are comparable to dogs or chimpanzees?

Because if that is what you think I do believe I'm going to have to just give up trying to have conversations with either of you.
 

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These comments by Bigtree are not defensible. It's an awful, awful thing to say and he should be ashamed of himself. Having a child whose brain works differently from the mainstream is NOTHING like having a dog!
 

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These comments by Bigtree are not defensible. It's an awful, awful thing to say and he should be ashamed of himself. Having a child whose brain works differently from the mainstream is NOTHING like having a dog!
I wasn't defending it.

He didn't defend it. None of the parents around the table defended it.

Turning a statement, which was immediately discarded as incorrect, as something that "can't be defended" is just crazy. It is trying to turn a nothing into a firestorm.
 
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These comments by Bigtree are not defensible. It's an awful, awful thing to say and he should be ashamed of himself. Having a child whose brain works differently from the mainstream is NOTHING like having a dog!
What do you think he was actually TRYING to say? Since he gave up that direction as "wrong", what makes you think he actually means what you are claiming that he means? Rather than just exploring a thought, realizing that it doesn't work, and backing off? There is a difference.
 
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Let me get this straight. You are admitting that vaccine enthusiasts pass laws to, for example, deprive children of access to school and then make fun of people for calling such mandates "coercion" or "force" or "deprivation of education", instead describing it as a "consequence of someone's choices". Leaving out that for many years exemptions made it perfectly possible for children who hadn't had every possible vaccine on the schedule to attend school and that the "consequences" are the result of choices made by the vaccine enthusiasts, not "consequences" of the choices made by the parents.

Have I got that right?
Okay. I guess when you accuse vaccinators of trying to "reframe" things you really do know what you are talking about.
 

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Noticed that nowadays people seem to take offence so easily.

Apparently, some people are upset about comments Del made during a meal with parents of autistic children.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4nCHU9ijtVGLTNwX2doVXVDc0E/view?pref=2&pli=1
An important point is that the parents were not at all offended. Del seems to be man of empathy and compassion for autistic children and their parents.
It seems obvious to me that this was a private meal. I don't think things said during a private discussion are anything that we need to concern ourselves with.

This is a great talk regarding this subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trRdlNTbe0k
I have to say that I agree with Mr. Hitchens on this one. But I think this particular case is much ado about nothing and involves totally ripping Del's words out of context.
 
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