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<p>I really have trouble maintaining friendships, but growing up + motherhood as helped me immensely in this department</p>
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<p>I have a friend currently who I do enjoy, but I'm having trouble because I'm in<em>timidated</em> by her. I think when you become a mother when you make plans in the back of your head you know that they could be canceled for any reason..am I the only one that has this mindset? My friend and I have not been on the best terms lately, because of my canceling. And today she basically told me that the next time I cancel because my kids are sick, or I didn't get enough sleep (I have an infant) or my husband worked 12 hrs and couldn't watch kids that she's going to be ticked off.</p>
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<p>And my first thought was um, duh those are all legit "excuses" if I got 3 hrs of sleep the night before I MIGHT not want to get lunch with you and your hyper kid. Because my kid acts out and I am running on too little sleep to handle that rationally. O</p>
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<p>Other times I don't cancel, I ask things like "can we do a playdate at my place instead because I don't have the car.."</p>
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<p>I really don't think that I'm acting like an a-hole in any of these instances, but her comments are really frusturating too</p>
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<p>Things like "are you sure you can handle this, because you aren't going to have like an emergency "I have to bring my brother to the doctor" type thing are you.."</p>
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<p>And we made plans for a dinner and I forgot I have dinner at my own moms, and I'm so intimdated that I don't want to tell her because she "warned" me that she'd be ticked if I canceled, and naturally..I have to <span><img alt="redface.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/redface.gif"> I'm pretty sucky at remembering things/time management etc.</span></p>
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<p><span>I guess I need to let this out, because I'm in the midst of composing an email to her explaining how I feel</span></p>
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<p><span>When maintaining mom friendships, do you tend to have more slack? Because I DO and am I not in the norm here?</span><br>
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<p>I'm usually the one in your friend's shoes, I often get canceled on. Honestly, it gets really old. I get that they are valid excuses but when you hear them again and again,  I lose compassion and start getting annoyed. Maybe I was looking forward to that lunch, like really looking forward to having actually adult conversation, or my one of my children were so excited to play with your kids and I have to let them down yet again that x canceled on us. When I make plans, I make plans, I don't just cancel unless I really need to, maybe your friend is like me. </p>
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<p>I think what you need to do is have a conversation with her about this. She needs to hear that you believe or need things to be more flexible then she does. Good luck with the email. </p>
 

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<p>If I'm at a tough stage in my life (infant, etc) then I just don't make plans any more grand than loose playdates. I suppose it's as simple as that. I'm quite introverted though, so it doesn't bother me at all.</p>
 

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<p>I gotta say, that would upset me too.  And I don't think your friend was out of line to say something to you.  If you know there is a chance you might be tired or kids cranky, etc...  Then plan playdates at your house, so you know you will be there.  If a friend canceled on me more than a couple times I would definitely stop making plans with that person.  We still go out on days that my toddler and/or baby is cranky to meet with friends.  Most times just getting out of the house changes everyone's attitudes, including my own.  It's nice to feel like I'm accomplishing something, even if it's just meeting a friend at the mall.  I don't feel as though my plans could be canceled at anytime.  My kids aren't sick very often though and I can't imagine much else that would keep me out of the house and busy. </p>
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<p>There are some things I think are more excusable now that I'm a mom that I didn't before.  Being late is one of them.  It still bugs me though if someone is over 15 minutes late and doesn't bother calling.  By being late though, I just mean up to 15 minutes.  If someone is repeatedly more late than that, I get pissed.</p>
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<p>As far as the dinner goes, why can't you just cancel with your mom?  Or drop the kids off at mom's and go out to dinner alone? :) </p>
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<p>ETA:  I would definitely say snarky things - like the take your brother to the doctor example.  When you keep canceling on your friend - you are telling her that there are a lot more important things for you to be doing besides keeping your commitments to her.  Which is okay, your friend does not have to be a priority - but then you need to stop making plans with her.</p>
 

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<p>The only thing I think you did wrong is agree to plans that are a little too formal. When you plan a lunch or dinner date, it's not the same as "hey, I'll be at the park at 10:00 if you guys want to show up."  I don't think any of your excuses are wrong. I completely understand them. But like I said, you probably need looser plans so neither of you is disappointed. It just sounds like you both have different expectations.  Good luck with your email. </p>
 

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<p>Yeah, I don't deal well with flaky people -- it drives me nuts to have plans fall through all the time. The excuses may be legitimate, but the other person might be feeling like they have stuff that comes up too, but they manage to make it work because getting together with you was important to them. When it happens over and over, they might figure that it's not as important to you to get together with them, so they stop wanting to put forth the effort just to be disappointed once again. It's a natural response. </p>
 
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<p>I can see both sides of the issue ~ like you suggested, it may be worth communicating with her via email to explain your feelings and to give her the opportunity to communicate back.  I would definitely not make any more plans to get together with her unless you know that you're 100% able to commit to that.</p>
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<p>Peace</p>
 

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<p>Thanks for your replies</p>
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<p>I do need to work on flakiness but I think that's where my problem lays - I don't see what the big deal is? Plans to tentatively meet at the playground just aren't as important to me as my kids, or my sleep, or my own family etc. If another mom said "hey can't make it today, not feeling good because I have a new babe..didn't get enough sleep..need to do this.." I would be like okay totally! When you are up for it lets talk.</p>
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<p>And many times, and I know this sounds crazy, she'll say things like "we agreed to meet at 11" and I swear from my heart I didn't say that. I always try to say things like "I'll let you know in the morning what time we will be there" or "MAYBE this day, and maybe this time, can I let you know next week what day is going to wrok for a lunch" and when It's Monday and she's like where are you are you on your way I get really flustered because I know I didn't say I was coming on that day, at that time. And she gets defensive. Another example is her sons birthday -- she was doing stations and asked me to do the craft station, but did NOT ask me to buy supplies. When we were talking she was like "I need to get to Micheals!" and I said you have a few weeks it should be okay...</p>
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<p>Day of party she was like where are the supplies! And I said well, you didn't ask me to get them? And she said that when we had conversation above I said "<strong>I</strong> have a few weeks, don't worry I can get them.." And that did not happen, the conversation did not go like that.</p>
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<p>So in addition to being flaky I feel CRAZY</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Peony</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16054677"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><p>I'm usually the one in your friend's shoes, I often get canceled on. Honestly, it gets really old. I get that they are valid excuses but when you hear them again and again,  I lose compassion and start getting annoyed. Maybe I was looking forward to that lunch, like really looking forward to having actually adult conversation, or my one of my children were so excited to play with your kids and I have to let them down yet again that x canceled on us. When I make plans, I make plans, I don't just cancel unless I really need to, maybe your friend is like me. </p>
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<p>I think what you need to do is have a conversation with her about this. She needs to hear that you believe or need things to be more flexible then she does. Good luck with the email. </p>
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Yep to all this.<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Nicole730</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16054715"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><p>I gotta say, that would upset me too.  And I don't think your friend was out of line to say something to you.  If you know there is a chance you might be tired or kids cranky, etc...  Then plan playdates at your house, so you know you will be there.  If a friend canceled on me more than a couple times I would definitely stop making plans with that person.  We still go out on days that my toddler and/or baby is cranky to meet with friends.  Most times just getting out of the house changes everyone's attitudes, including my own.  It's nice to feel like I'm accomplishing something, even if it's just meeting a friend at the mall.  I don't feel as though my plans could be canceled at anytime.  My kids aren't sick very often though and I can't imagine much else that would keep me out of the house and busy. </p>
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<p>There are some things I think are more excusable now that I'm a mom that I didn't before.  Being late is one of them.  It still bugs me though if someone is over 15 minutes late and doesn't bother calling.  By being late though, I just mean up to 15 minutes.  If someone is repeatedly more late than that, I get pissed.</p>
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<p>As far as the dinner goes, why can't you just cancel with your mom?  Or drop the kids off at mom's and go out to dinner alone? :) </p>
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<p>ETA:  I would definitely say snarky things - like the take your brother to the doctor example.  When you keep canceling on your friend - you are telling her that there are a lot more important things for you to be doing besides keeping your commitments to her.  Which is okay, your friend does not have to be a priority - but then you need to stop making plans with her.</p>
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And to all this, too.<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>homemademom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16054925"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><p>The only thing I think you did wrong is agree to plans that are a little too formal. When you plan a lunch or dinner date, it's not the same as "hey, I'll be at the park at 10:00 if you guys want to show up."  I don't think any of your excuses are wrong. I completely understand them. But like I said, you probably need looser plans so neither of you is disappointed. It just sounds like you both have different expectations.  Good luck with your email. </p>
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I think this is a good solution. There's a world of difference in my mind between saying something like, "We'll be at the playground from around 11-1. Stop by if you're up for it." and "We'll go to lunch at 12."<br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>limabean</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16054977"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif"></a><br><br><p>Yeah, I don't deal well with flaky people -- it drives me nuts to have plans fall through all the time. The excuses may be legitimate, but the other person might be feeling like they have stuff that comes up too, but they manage to make it work because getting together with you was important to them. When it happens over and over, they might figure that it's not as important to you to get together with them, so they stop wanting to put forth the effort just to be disappointed once again. It's a natural response. </p>
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This is me, too. I will do my darndest to make a "date" work. Of course, I've had to cancel stuff, but very rarely. I view it as honoring my commitments. Now, I realize that sounds a bit extreme for a playground meet up! <img alt="orngtongue.gif" class="bbcode_smiley" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif"> and I'm really not that extreme! But, in general, i won't make firm plans unless I'm willing to keep them if at all possible.<br><br>
OP, it sounds to me like you and your friend have very different styles and outlooks. That's ok and I think she was trying (maybe awkwardly) to let you know that she has one style and it really is upsetting to her that you have another one and keep flaking out. So . .. I think you can either let the friendship fizzle *or* follow the PP's advice and keep plans loose for a while. You could even explain it to your friend. You could say that you respect her feelings on it but because of the stage of life you're in right now (with a very young baby), you can't commit to making firm plans a lot of the time. But that you'd still like to try and meet up less formally. That way she knows she's been "heard" and that you're trying to meet her half-way.<br>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mommariffic</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16055225"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Thanks for your replies</p>
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<p>I do need to work on flakiness but I think that's where my problem lays - I don't see what the big deal is? Plans to tentatively meet at the playground just aren't as important to me as my kids, or my sleep, or my own family etc. If another mom said "hey can't make it today, not feeling good because I have a new babe..didn't get enough sleep..need to do this.." I would be like okay totally! When you are up for it lets talk.</p>
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Your friends time is valuable to her too and maybe she feels like she is wasting that time waiting or anticipating you to commit to an arrangement that you've agreed to.  While your family is the main priority without a doubt, I cannot help but feel that you're being disrespectful towards your friend by not acknowledging that she is wasting time 'waiting' or 'anticipating' these arrangements with you.</p>
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<p>I recently arranged a photo shoot with a friend and she kept me hanging right until the last minute.. I packed my cameras, took my son to school and sent her numerous text messages and attempted to call her to confirm if she would be turning up.  I then stood around outside of the school gates at my son's school for nearly 30 minutes waiting for her to answer me via phone, because I didn't know whether I was heading for the planned destination or I would be returning home.  She eventually cancelled of course.  I was most definitely annoyed that she had wasted my time by doing this.</p>
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<p>I still think that it might be worth addressing this with your friend, just so the air can be cleared and agreements made <img alt="smile.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/smile.gif"></p>
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<p>Peace</p>
 

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<p>You shouldn't have to be afraid of your friend. I would not want to maintain a friendship like that. It would be stressing. You never know what will come up to result in canceling. I tend to be very cautious about what I will promise to do,because I am not one who will cancel on a whim.</p>
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<p>I guess I would schedule a lot less with this friend if you tend to cancel on her.I would be upset if someone canceled a lot even if it were just a playdate.Do your best to make up for the cancellations.As for the dinner that is up to you,but I might be inclined to go with her and reschedule with mom.Let your friend know how you are feeling.</p>
 

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<p>It sounds like to two of you don't jive. And to be honest with you, I don't think you or I would, either. I will cancel plans if I or my child is sick or if I don't have transportation(in that case, like you said, I would offer a playdate at my house). But it's a really bummer to be on the other side, expecting to have certain plans, but then be cancelled on often, especially for things like the other person being 'tired.' I have a friend who's done this to me a few times, sometimes she says she just doesn't feel like it that day because she had a hard day or sometimes she's tired, etc. I don't make plans with her anymore. It's too frustrating for me to plan my life expecting to have these things going on only to have them taken away. Frankly, it's disappointing. </p>
 

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<p>After reading the rest of the responses I want to add a few more things. </p>
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<p>I forgot to mention the canceling because of tiredness.  I am always tired and I assume I will pretty much be until I'm done having kids and my youngest is 5 (and hopefully at that point I'll get to sleep through the night!).  So, of course, I operate while tired. </p>
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<p>And, I do think that meeting at the playground is a commitment that should be honored.  You don't know if the other person would even be going if you didn't say you were, you know?  Plus, as much as I love to take my child to the playground without meeting anyone, I look forward to meeting friends because it's something for me to do too.  If you are indeed saying things like, I will try to make it or I'll let you know in the morning what time..etc...  Then maybe your friend is misinterpreting it?  Either way though, I would stop making plans with someone who consistently (meaning more than 3 times in a row/month) couldn't find the time to show up.  I do agree with others though, you probably just have a different style of relationships than your friend.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>mommariffic</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16055225"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Thanks for your replies</p>
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<p>I do need to work on flakiness but I think that's where my problem lays - <strong>I don't see what the big deal is</strong>? Plans to tentatively meet at the playground just aren't as important to me as my kids, or my sleep, or my own family etc. If another mom said "hey can't make it today, not feeling good because I have a new babe..didn't get enough sleep..need to do this.." I would be like okay totally! When you are up for it lets talk.</p>
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<p>And many times, and I know this sounds crazy, she'll say things like "we agreed to meet at 11" and I swear from my heart I didn't say that. I always try to say things like "I'll let you know in the morning what time we will be there" or "MAYBE this day, and maybe this time, can I let you know next week what day is going to wrok for a lunch" and when It's Monday and she's like where are you are you on your way I get really flustered because I know I didn't say I was coming on that day, at that time. And she gets defensive. Another example is her sons birthday -- she was doing stations and asked me to do the craft station, but did NOT ask me to buy supplies. When we were talking she was like "I need to get to Micheals!" and I said you have a few weeks it should be okay...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Day of party she was like where are the supplies! And I said well, you didn't ask me to get them? And she said that when we had conversation above I said "<strong>I</strong> have a few weeks, don't worry I can get them.." And that did not happen, the conversation did not go like that.</p>
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<p>So in addition to being flaky I feel CRAZY</p>
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<br><br><p>Re: the bolded, the big deal is that she arranged her schedule to be able to get together with you that day. She probably said no to other people, made sure her kids ate early or whatever, got their sand toys out so they'd be ready, told her kids they'd get to play with yours that day, etc. It's not very respectful to not acknowledge that she has a life too and that your canceling at the last minute throws a wrench in her day and is probably disappointing to her and her kids. </p>
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<p>Re: the rest of it, maybe you should confirm stuff in writing, like via text or e-mail, so that there's no more miscommunication -- it would be frustrating to have someone insist that a conversation went a way that you're <em>sure</em> it didn't go. So maybe next time you make plans (if there is a next time <img alt="redface.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/redface.gif">), send a follow-up text saying, "Hi! Just confirming that we'll meet at the park next Monday or Tuesday morning. I'll text you on Sunday night to set a specific time." </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>limabean</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16054977"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Yeah, I don't deal well with flaky people -- it drives me nuts to have plans fall through all the time. The excuses may be legitimate, but the other person might be feeling like they have stuff that comes up too, but they manage to make it work because getting together with you was important to them. When it happens over and over, they might figure that it's not as important to you to get together with them, so they stop wanting to put forth the effort just to be disappointed once again. It's a natural response. </p>
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<br><br><p>This. I would feel like your friend does.. that I am not important enough for you to remember and make an effort. I would be re-evaluating my friendship with you.</p>
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<p>If you want to make a save here.. cancel dinner with your own mom.</p>
 

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<p>I think part of this is just a bad match. I think your go-with-the-flow point of view is valid and works for many people. But not all. For some people, it really does make a difference if you cancel a playground meetup at the last minute. They might have even started getting ready for it the night before, going to bed earlier so they would be up in time, doing laundry so the right play outfit would be ready. They might have declined another invite. That morning they might have wanted to do an errand but didn't because they planned to be out the door by X time. Their kids might be the sort that really don't deal well with changed plans, and they might get upset when told they weren't meeting their friend after all. They might have arranged to have the car that day and inconvenienced their spouse. I don't even know what, but you get the idea, it's not that your friend is anal just to get on your case; if she felt put out she <em>was</em> put out.</p>
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<p>What's interesting to note is that the difference between your laid-back style and your friend's keep-the-commitment style is that you both probably have to do things to make the playdate happen. But while she makes the sacrifices to preserve the commitment, you sacrifice the commitment. In other words, if her husband needed the car that day, she would drive him to work (inconvenient) so she had the car so she could make the date. You would call her and say you couldn't do it because your husband needed the car that day. See the difference? I'm not judging, just trying to address your confusion about how it could make a difference to her, since having an awareness of that can really help you deal with people in the future.</p>
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<p>Now, it does seem like there may be more to it than just difference in commitment-management styles. You admitted you don't keep track of things very well. That's more than just being laid-back, that's something you might want to work on. (Again, no judgement, I have plenty of things I need to work on myself). But it definitely is not cool to not make the effort to remember what you agreed to do.</p>
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<p>And, there's the matter of you guys not agreeing on what was committed to. I could not possibly know who was right - maybe you're right and she has a bad memory or likes to fob off her mistakes on to you. Maybe she's right and you just didn't remember what you committed to. Maybe there's something in between like a difference in communication  style - she may be more indirect than you. People who are indirect tend to soften things with "maybe" and such, but they mean what they say. So when you say "maybe we'll get together" she hears "we'll get together." Likewise she might have been hinting to you that she needed help getting supplies. Finally, there's the possibility that one or the other of you has a hearing problem :D</p>
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<p>If it were me, I'd probably cool off on the friendship. It's ok that rigid scheduling just doesn't work for you. Find friends you can mesh with. I think it will be hard for you guys to really feel comfortable from now on because it's such a sore spot. It IS ok to change plans occasionally. But now that she feels like you cancel all the time, she will hold every changed plan against you even if you reduce it to a level that is considered "normal." Likewise, you'll feel like you're walking on eggshells. I don't think you need to have a blowout about this, but just cool off. And if you do continue to see her, try harder on your part to communicate well (and confirm your understanding) and make your commitments. Also, if you do the "maybe" thing, it sounds like it would be better to say "I really don't think I can commit at this point. Let's talk later on in the week, ok?" which will probably be clearer to her than "Sure, maybe Monday afternoon would be good, but I'll confirm" which to her sounds like a date.</p>
 
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I also don't deal with flaky people, especially when my kid is involved. She looks forward to doing things and is disappointed when someone doesn't show. It is not nice.<br><br>
If you don't value the relationship, maybe you should let it go.
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>*bejeweled*</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1280143/friendships#post_16056927"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br>
I also don't deal with flaky people, especially when my kid is involved. She looks forward to doing things and is disappointed when someone doesn't show. It is not nice.<br><br>
If you don't value the relationship, maybe you should let it go.</div>
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<br><br><p>Oh, and I wanted to add that... my kids get excited, too when someone is coming over to play. When you ditch me at the last minute, you are crushing my kid's feelings. too.</p>
 

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<p>OP: I think this just sounds like a bad match. My style is more like yours, and I can't even imagine being upset with a friend for not getting enough sleep or having a sick kid! (I just had to bail on taking my sister, who cut open her toe last night, and can't walk any distance, to the grocery store, because ds2 woke up puking - it is what it is, yk?) I've had people have to bail/cancel at the last moment, and it's just not that big a deal. We make new plans. But, I'm also pretty loose about things and don't tend to commit to a lot of things until the time arrives. I've had a few acquaintance who would take a casual "maybe next Monday? I'm free - 11:00 or so should work - let's talk about this tomorrow" on the way out of the school building as a firm commitment to be on their doorstep on Monday at 11:00. We generally just don't continue to hang out, because our styles create too much friction.</p>
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<p>Good luck in working this one out, whichever way you decide to do it.</p>
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<p>Oh - and I find her warning absolutely ridiculous. She's obviously <em>already</em> ticked, or she wouldn't have said anything. So - what's with the warning? She just really doesn't sound like someone I'd enjoy socializing with, tbh.</p>
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<p>BTW, assuming you're relating the conversations accurately, I just couldn't deal with the stress. Take the craft thing. She was going to go to Michael's, and thought you had volunteered to do it by saying "I have a couple of weeks", and didn't bother to confirm that you were agreeing to take over, or what you were going to buy or anything? That's just plain weird, imo. If I were the party organizer in the same conversation - even if her version were correct - I'd have replied with something like, "oh - you can do that for me? That would be awesome. We need X, Y and Z for this many kids", which would allow you to clarify that I had misheard. She seems to have made a fairly big assumption based on hearing <em>one</em> word on the phone.</p>
 
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Discussion Starter #20
<br><br>
Again thanks for the responses<br><br>
I will agree we have different styles. Also want to note that I do not cancel every single time...but my kids were just sick, my brother has an illness and dh is working really long hrs...driving him to work isn't an option unless I drive into manhattan, not happening way too scary for me.<br><br>
So lately all plans are tentative, I'm not this flakey person al of the time. If someone had sick kids my response would be feel better not all you do is cancel. Weird that's not the not<br>
Rm.
 
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