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From 2 Vehicles to 1? Please Help Me Think It Through

918 Views 34 Replies 26 Participants Last post by  Baby Makes 4, 
K
6
Bear with me, this is rather long, but I'm hoping someone can help me think through the things I haven't considered...

So, my hubby's 94 Subaru Outback is getting close to dead. At least, we're at the point now where when it has a mechanical problem, it's costing us about $1000 a pop. Blue book value on his car is only about $2500, and we spent about that last year in repairs, I think. It's running for now, but I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before we have to sink more into it.

I have a 98 Honda Accord with super low miles (about 54,000, I think) that I use to drive myself and my two kids where we need to go. We bought both vechicles used and they're paid for.

We'd like to get a new vehicle this year, and we've been thinking of a Honda Pilot. I've always said I'd never be "one of those" SUV owners...but my sister let us use her Pilot for our vacation last year, and I have to say, it was awesome to be able to take DH and me, my toddler and infant, grandma as nanny, and all of our stuff for two weeks in one really nice feeling vehicle. We even averaged 23 mpg, highway driving! I've looked around at minivans, bigger sedans, and smaller SUVs (we're thinking of a third child eventually), and that seems pretty darned good compared to many of the other mpgs we've seen out there.

We've instituted an envelope budgeting system that we're really loving so far. I've got our balanced spending plan for the next 12 months mapped out, with all the necessities, a somewhat generous amount of wants, and even some additional savings categories like additional retirement and starter college funds for the kids. (There's very little in there, but at least there's more than $0 like there was last month! =) Anyway, I figure the Pilot would set us back $575/month for a 5 year loan (we have excellent FICOs, so we'd get a "good" interest rate.) We'd pay an additional $235/year in insurance, and I figure an additional $30/month in gas over what we're already paying. The thing is, I don't see how we can fit this into our budget without really, really cutting back in some crucial areas and maybe not even then.

So, you say, get a cheaper car or a used one!
I'd usually agree - neither DH or myself has ever had a car payment. We buy used cars and drive them into the ground. But there are a few reasons I'm really into this car. First, we are considering having one more child, so I'd like the next vehicle we buy to be able to hold three kids in carseats, plus the two of us and all the other detritus of traveling with a family.
I also want something that can tow a horse trailer as we plan to move further out toward the country in the next 5 years and I'd like to move my old horse with me and maybe get a cow. And, my sister lives in a town up near the mountains that gets feet of snow all winter and I'd like 4WD and clearance so we can visit during all the winter fun!
All those things say to me, fairly large SUV. Of the ones I've been able to test, or my friends have, or I've read about in places like Mother Earth News, the Pilot is one of the most fuel efficient, and Honda is one of the better companies environmentally. (None of them are exactly great, but some effort here is better than none.
) Honda is also one of the most reliable vehicles out there, and I absolutely hate, hate, hate, having to go to the mechanic. They make me nuts. As far as used goes, I'd love a used Pilot, but no one sells them once they have them! Seriously. They come up like once every two months in our classifieds.

So I really feel the Pilot is a good choice for our next vehicle, but I'm not going to jump for it, knowing we can't afford it. I'd be interested to hear if any of you have other recommendations for vehicles that fit my criteria above that might be less expensive. (I think it will cost us about $31,000, given my sister's experience.) So given that I want the Pilot, I'm forced to think of how to do it on our current budget. The only thing I can think of is reducing to one vehicle for our family, but I don't know if the hassle would be worth the benefit, or if it would even save us enough money.

Have any of you done this? What has been your experience? What do you wish you had known before you downsized to one vehicle? I mean, it makes sense since I am a SAHM, and my husband works only 5 minutes drive from home. If we went to 1 vehicle he would probably start riding his bicycle some days which could be a good thing. But, on the other hand, he's not in that great of shape right now, and I'd worry about him having too much physical stress right away, not to mention the danger of riding a bicycle with all those darned SUVs on the road!
I'm only sort of kidding there. It makes sense, but I would really miss my car! We do live close to town, but our public transportation sucks and I hate to think of being "trapped" at home with the two kids nearly every day. If I took the car, I'd need to get all of us around early enough to drop him off at work if it was a rainy day or something. And, gee, that would be really early. (Insert bagface smiley here. =)

All that, and I'm still not sure if it would save us enough money. I think we could get probably $10,000 for our two cars combined as a downpayment. Maybe then that would bring the monthly payments down to something we could afford, given we'd only be paying for one vehicle's insurance, maintenance, and gas. I guess I need to crunch the numbers some more. And, I'm hoping y'all can give me some other things to think about in regards to the benefits of being a one car family. I would think we'd exercise more, but on the other hand, walking as far as we'd have to go to get to the grocery store with two young kids in our 100 degree summers (southern Idaho) isn't really practical. I just don't know. But, I'm strongly considering it. If only to see can we get by tightening our belts a bit. It's good exercise.


Thanks!

Krista
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Delight
2
Oh my goodness...all I can say is "DON'T DO IT!". Don't get sucked into the new car lies. If I've learned anything from my financial mentors, it's that you don't buy new unless you can buy it with cash. If you're totally set on that vehicle...find one that is a couple years old (did they make it 2 years ago?).

Just my 2 cents...but don't fall off the wagon now!
There are certainly vehicles that will meet your requirements ...that you could find in great condition used. Good luck!
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E
Note, I'm not going to help
The Pilot is actually my dream car.

Ok we have a minivan, and we figured out that we could afford the 400 dollar a month payment, we can afford it but let me tell you it sucks so bad every month to pay that when for years beforehand we owned our cars. You are figuring on spending about 600 a month (all things considered) on this car, take 6 months and put that 600 away, see how it "feels".

Also check out "carmax" www.carmax.com

I don't know where you live but they are a national used chain and they have Pilots, it can save you 5-10,000 which would lower your payment significantly.

We are a two family car, we need to be, but the car payments are rough.

Maybe sell the Suburu, get a few grand and find a used Pilot ?

Also if you can "make the payment" for 6 months- 1year before buying it you can use that as a down payment.
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K
Wow! I didn't think anyone would even have time to read my post in that amount of time!


Yes, I would love to get a used Pilot. I'm certainly not enticed by any of the new car wiles...it's just I can't seem to find any used ones within 300 to 400 miles! But I will check out carmax. Thanks for the link.

Once we decide on the vehicle we need/want, we were planning to make the monthly payment to our savings so we'd have even more than DH's car sale price to put down. I'm only counting on about 2 grand from his car, if that. And that is selling it privately, not trading in. That's not nearly enough for a downpayment, in my mind.

Thanks ladies!

Krista
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman'smom
You are figuring on spending about 600 a month (all things considered) on this car, take 6 months and put that 600 away, see how it "feels".
I totally agree.

We traded in my DH's old, junky truck and got in an expensive, new, yet-still-junky ford Escape. I love it for long trips, it fits the dog, the babe, and three adults comfortably. But I hate the trouble we've had with it. We bought it used for a "great deal".... It was 12 months old and had 20k miles on it... I won't ever trust another car like that. Obviously there is a reason when people turn in cars after such a short time.

And then my husband got a new job, commutes 60 miles a day in our Corolla, and I barely drive 60 miles a week in this big car.

Oh how I wish we'd kept the truck, let him commute in that, and saved our money!

If you think you'll have another baby, I'd say save your money until you can pay cash for a different car.

And, as for selling the old Subie, consider donating it to charity. I think you can get a tax deduction for the blue book value of your car. That may make it worth more than if you sell it. (A friend did this with a broken down car. It was kind of cheating on her taxes though...)
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Shiloh
drive the cars you have until they die.

but we have a pathfinder...I hate it hate it.
Great truck, great on gas...but can I say everything is sooo expensive on it?
The bumper (we've been hit 3 or is it four times?) 1200 plus each time.

Insurance kills, car payments its not 31,000 its 31,000 plus all the charges, plus interest and all those hidden taxes etc.

Don't buy brand new, buy the demo, haggle haggle haggle.

Those mpg are also only on new cars, not when it starts chugging...
And really think thats an extra 700 a month wow... I second make the payment into savings account for a full year...and check the lemon guides..
as well the newer the car is the more stuff costs to fix.
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S
I feel for you, I'm fortunate enough that DH and FIL are both mechanically inclined and when something goes out, we only have to buy parts. Going from 2 cars to one is tough, I hated not being able to go anywhere and we wasted so much money in extra gas by me taking DH to work and back most days.

I agree with what the other said, save up to buy a car later, financing one is going to cost a ton.
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J
Just as for more input, I had a 98 Honda accord. Once I hit 100K I started having a lot of problems and it was very expensive to fix. I kept holding on thinking it was done but something else would pop up. Honda isnt all that.
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G
I have a pilot, and we looove it. We don't drive much, home office and small town, but for long trips and family, you cant beat it.
That said, 575 a mth for car payment is really high to me. Like the other posters said, can you get one used? or maybe save for a higher down payment? There are so many good things about a honda, in terms of reliability, safety, etc. We only have one car, though, and some bikes...anyway, I know what you mean, after your car starts to break down every five seconds, a new car is sooo enticing!
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K
Does blue book on your current cars add up to $10,000? And even if it does, can you GET that for them?

With two little kids, I wouldn't be comfortable being home without a vehicle. And I can't imagine getting me and the kids up and out in time to drive dh to work, even just sometimes.

I'd watch for the Pilot on sale used. Wait til you find one.

Oh, and as far as something that can fit three kids and tow a horse - for a move that is five years down the road and a third kid that you don't have yet - I wouldn't factor that in too heavily. Dh INSISTED we needed the expensive tow package on my SUV - for the boat he wanted to buy. Seven years later, still no boat, and he is starting to eye new SUVs. Good thing we paid extra for the bigger engine to tow that boat!

I do think something that seats five is smart - but you may not have the oldest in a car seat anymore by the time dc3 comes along?

Honestly, if I were you, I'd either drive the cars you have now into the ground, or just buy something inexpensive for dh to replace the Outback. And when you come into a big work bonus or tax return or lotto win or just save up a bunch, then go for the Pilot. Or hey! Buy your sister's from her used in a couple of years when they come out with new bells and whistles on the newer models and you convince her how nice it would be to have the 2010 model!
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K
Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.
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M
3
~You can get a used Durango for like 8,000
~It will haul a horse trailer with 1.5 cords of wood not problem. It hauls our 24 foot camp trailer no problem.
~Turns on a dime, which is nice when your in a parking lot and there a space the opposite direction

~ Hold 7 people, or a heck of a lot of junk.
~ Has 2 types of 4 wheel drive

~ Wonderful rig, has gotten us all sorts of places on really bad roads.

Using fuel injector cleaner every month or so REALLY helps keep the gas mileage good
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Shiloh
The durango is my dream car, get a V6 if its strong enough to pull what you need it will be better on gas and they are a steal used! I was going to buy one of those instead of the pathfinder but it was 10,000 more, used they are cheaper than ours..

But I'd say put aside the money see if it doesn't 'hurt' or sell the 2 cars and get the durango! But really the cars you own outright are the cheapest cars you will ever buy!
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rabbithorns
We have never had a car newer than 10 years old! And all Subarus. They tend to last 5 more years and then die at 15. Our current 91 Legacy is at 15 and still going strong so we're hopeful.

The point? We're down to one car and we make it work. Also, an old used car usually costs us about $4000 INCLUDING its first major repair that we always run into in the first 3 months. After that, I'd say our old cars average $800 a year in repairs for the 5 years. That totals $8000 plus much lower insurance since it's old and great gas mileage since it's a Subaru. Where else can you get a car for $1600 a year for ownership and maintenance?

I'm sure some people do even better than that, but that's certainly much less than car payments. And Japanese cars tend to be much less expensive to fix (Toyotas and Subarus are the most cost-efficient according to our mechanic in general). I am surprised a 94 Outback is already outdated....Bummer.
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M
We recently became a 1 car family and so far, so good. We have a 2002Dodge Grand Caravan and love it. We get really great gas milage, low insurance (56 a month for full coverage), low payments, and can fit everyone in. We bought it with less than 10,000 miles on it, but because it was used then we paid much less than for brand new, we purchased it the beginning of 2003. Our payment per month is $278. It hurts a bit, but we are all comfortable in our van and have been happy with our purchase since we got it.

To be totally honest, you don't need to be able to tow anything yet. If you want the space, I would seriously look into a minivan, knowing that you would have it paid off 5 years from now.... about the time that you need to tow. Then you could always look into a 4wd towing truck that you use just for towing stuff.... it could be used and fairly cheap. That is our plan for once we get a farm. We are planning on that in about 3 years from now, but we won't buy a vehicle for it now because the payments would crush us and the vehicle would be that much older by the time we actually needed to use it.

It sounds to me like if you got a cheaper vehicle, you would be able to keep your car? Honestly, if it was me (and I know it isn't), I would get a nice minivan for under 20,000 and not worry about an SUV or towing vehicle until you really need it.
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K
9


I guess I asked for it! Thanks for all the advice and opinions. They are exactly what I was looking for. You have given me some more things to consider.

I've responded below - just took quotes - sorry I didn't have the time to respond you each of you by name.

Quote:
If you think you'll have another baby, I'd say save your money until you can pay cash for a different car.
Yes, I think part of the problem is that we always have bought used and driven them into the ground. Part of me feels that if we're going to spend this much on a car, or even buy one new, that it will be our last car purchase for a long, long, time, so I wanted to make sure it would fit our likely upcoming needs. But I guess that doesn't make sense. I need something we can afford *now*, not something we *might* need later.

And besides, if we have another baby, we are going to have it at home, and I want to have all the money for the birth set aside while I'm still pregnant. I had a crash c-section with my first, fought like heck to even get to try a VBAC with my second, and finally ended up switching to a midwife (duh!) late in pregnancy and having my daughter at the birth center 18 minutes after we arrived.
After that car ride, I'll just stay home next time, thank you very much! So, it's very important to me if we have a third child to have the opportunity to have it at home. If we bought a new car, I bet we wouldn't have a third child because we wouldn't feel we could afford it right away - and with my husband being almost 46, and me almost 32, we want to be finished having our kids before I'm 35. That doesn't leave a lot of time.

Quote:
And, as for selling the old Subie, consider donating it to charity. I think you can get a tax deduction for the blue book value of your car. That may make it worth more than if you sell it. (A friend did this with a broken down car. It was kind of cheating on her taxes though...)
That's definitely something to consider. But, I think the laws have changed and IIRC, now you have to wait until they sell the car and you can only deduct the price they sell it for. But I'll check into that and see for sure.

Quote:
drive the cars you have until they die.

but we have a pathfinder...I hate it hate it.
Great truck, great on gas...but can I say everything is sooo expensive on it?
The bumper (we've been hit 3 or is it four times?) 1200 plus each time.
See, the Subaru IS about to die and if we're thinking about replacing it anyway, I'd rather put the $1500 toward a downpayment than back into the moneypit just to keep it moving so DH can get to work. That's what gets me about repairs - they can be so expensive and it just feels like money down the drain to me. With my Honda, I change the oil and That. Is. It. No mechanical problems - at least so far. But then, I had a mechanic friend test it out before we bought it, so I was reasonably sure there was nothing major wrong, at least to start.

Quote:
I feel for you, I'm fortunate enough that DH and FIL are both mechanically inclined and when something goes out, we only have to buy parts. Going from 2 cars to one is tough, I hated not being able to go anywhere and we wasted so much money in extra gas by me taking DH to work and back most days.
It is soooo funny that I hate going to mechanics, since my dad is one! (I certainly don't hate him.
) But he is an old-time mechanic and works for a masonry company repairing their semis, line equipment and construction equipment. BIG engines where you can work with BIG hands. He hates the newer "computer" cars and pretty much won't work on them except to change the oil. Says he can't fit inside to work on them.


The extra gas is a point too. Even though he's only a 5 minute drive - having to get the kids around that early would really be a pain - even some days.

Quote:
Does blue book on your current cars add up to $10,000? And even if it does, can you GET that for them?
Well, the blue book is actually higher. 10K is what I feel we could reasonably get for them, given their current condition (which is very good for the Honda, and serviceable for the Subaru - for now. =)

Quote:
Oh, and as far as something that can fit three kids and tow a horse - for a move that is five years down the road and a third kid that you don't have yet - I wouldn't factor that in too heavily. Dh INSISTED we needed the expensive tow package on my SUV - for the boat he wanted to buy. Seven years later, still no boat, and he is starting to eye new SUVs. Good thing we paid extra for the bigger engine to tow that boat!
This had me laughing so hard! You are so right. We should get something that fits our needs now - whatever they may be - and avoid paying extra for something we may never use. I just thought I was being thrifty thinking this would be our last car for a long long time, so I wanted it to fulfill our future needs. I guess if we buy a lesser used car, and save up until we buy it outright, then it won't seem like such a burden to later sell it IF we decide we need somthing different. Sigh. I just liked the Pilot so much on that family trip!


Quote:
Or hey! Buy your sister's from her used in a couple of years when they come out with new bells and whistles on the newer models and you convince her how nice it would be to have the 2010 model!
I'd love to. But my sister is smart. THEY bought this brand-spankin' new super-duper vehicle outright. Paid cash. Now they are making a "car payment" back into their savings every month. Smart, smart, smart. They aren't going to part with their car any time soon.
And besides, my sis puts A LOT of miles on her car, up in the mountains, and in the snow. I don't think I'd want it after just a few years.


Well, this is getting really long and DS needs some playtime. I'll respond to the other posts a bit later. Thanks so much for the input! I think you guys almost have me convinced to save for a much cheaper used car and just plan to save for a mechanic's stipend. I guess if I had the money for expected repairs set aside, it wouldn't bother me so much to have them done.

Krista
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K
7
Quote:
Wait.

Wait.
Okay, we're waiting for now. Not sure what we're waiting for, but I guess we'll deal with it whenever IT happens.

Quote:
~You can get a used Durango for like 8,000
~It will haul a horse trailer with 1.5 cords of wood not problem. It hauls our 24 foot camp trailer no problem.
Yeah, my brother has a Durango - but he says it gets terrible gas mileage and he's been in for repairs a few times already. But, I guess they weren't really bad ones. And, you can buy a lot of gas for $13,000!
It does have a lot of room inside, just not quite as nice as the Pilot's setup. But, if I can't afford the Pilot, why lust after all the bells and whistles anyway, eh?

Quote:
But I'd say put aside the money see if it doesn't 'hurt' or sell the 2 cars and get the durango! But really the cars you own outright are the cheapest cars you will ever buy!
So true. I really need to do some checking on other vehicles to find out what else would fulfill our needs, because just about anything that is not a Honda or a Subaru around here is going to be a heck of a lot easier to find used. (That's why I'm pretty confident in what we can sell our vehicles for - these cars get snapped up quick around here and if you set a good price, you don't deal with much haggling.)

Quote:
The point? We're down to one car and we make it work. Also, an old used car usually costs us about $4000 INCLUDING its first major repair that we always run into in the first 3 months. After that, I'd say our old cars average $800 a year in repairs for the 5 years. That totals $8000 plus much lower insurance since it's old and great gas mileage since it's a Subaru. Where else can you get a car for $1600 a year for ownership and maintenance?
That's a really really good point. I guess I just needed to see the numbers down in black and white for that to make sense. Like I said in my PP, if I had a good idea of how much money to set aside for repairs, I think I'd be a lot happier with a cheaper car that might need some more repairs. Any other people have experience with how much your used cars have cost to maintain?

Quote:
I'm sure some people do even better than that, but that's certainly much less than car payments. And Japanese cars tend to be much less expensive to fix (Toyotas and Subarus are the most cost-efficient according to our mechanic in general). I am surprised a 94 Outback is already outdated....Bummer.
Yeah, we've been rather surprised too. But, when my husband bought this vehicle, it did have higher than average miles on it and I think it had been driven pretty hard. But, it was cheap and it was the only small vehicle he could find that would carry around his big russian bass instrument. His one big requirement in a car before he was married and had kids.
When we started getting such high repair estimates we shopped around with some mechanic friends and we're pretty sure we were getting a fair deal as far as the repair price. It just stinks that the car has needed *these* particular repairs. Still, we did some big ones, so maybe, just maybe it is good for a while now.
:

Quote:
To be totally honest, you don't need to be able to tow anything yet. If you want the space, I would seriously look into a minivan, knowing that you would have it paid off 5 years from now.... about the time that you need to tow. Then you could always look into a 4wd towing truck that you use just for towing stuff.... it could be used and fairly cheap. That is our plan for once we get a farm. We are planning on that in about 3 years from now, but we won't buy a vehicle for it now because the payments would crush us and the vehicle would be that much older by the time we actually needed to use it.
Yup yup. Good points. Besides, I did mention that I have an *old* horse didn't I?
Unfortunately, he may not make it those 5 years. Or, at least, I might not want to be moving him off mom and dad's farm at that age. He'll be 18 in June. Not ancient for his breed (Hannoverian), but 24 will be. Gee, I hadn't really thought about that.
As far as the minivan goes - from what I've been able to find, their gas mileage is not that much better than a mid-sized SUV, and we really do want the road clearance right now so we can go visit my sister in the winter wonderland. They get huge drifts in the roads, so it is a lot more difficult to drive a car or a minivan, even if you have 4WD. And, right now, you can get slightly better deals on SUVs since, with the rising gas prices, everyone is offloading them or not buying them in the first place. But, if you do the math, you're not likely to spend as much more in gas as you'd spend on a higher-priced more fuel efficient car. Did that make any sense?
In other words, you might be buying a more fuel-efficent car, but if you spent $5000 more for it, you're not likely to spend that much more buying gas for a slightly less efficient car, if you'd kept it in the first place.

Thanks and thanks again for all your advice. If you have more ideas on other family-friendly vehicles, I'd love to hear them. I guess it's back to the drawing board for us. Time to do some more research.

Krista
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kerc
chiming in late to add that we have a used 99 accord we bought as a lease return. I dunno if they even lease the pilot. But...a lease is typically like 2 -3 years at 12 k miles per year. People who lease cars are often people who drive to/from work and that's it. So it was a good thing for us. We wanted a standard transmission honda and we had the dealer find one for us. We didn't get the deal of a lifetime (since he looked for us) but we did get a decent deal.
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D
So you want to spend over $600 a month for a new car to hold the baby you don't yet have, tow the trailer you don't yet have, and fit in all the people you take on a once- or twice-yearly vacation?

I wouldn't do it. No way.

Wait until you actually have the kid and the trailer. In the meantime, rent a Pilot when you go on vacation.

Namaste!
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C
If you want a larger car, I would look into the Honda Odessey. It gets about the same gas mileage as the Pilot, has the same engine, and costs about $5000 less. Also, it's much more kid friendly. We looked at both. You can't get to the third row of seats in the Pilot without folding a second row seat forward and climbing over. In the Odessey, since there's only 2 seats in the second row, you can squeeze back to the 3rd row. This is something to think about, if you plan on having 2 carseats in the second row and a third in the 3rd row. With the carseats installed in the Pilot, you wouldn't be able to flip a seat forward to easily access the 3rd row. If 4WD is really important, take a look at the Toyota Sienna. You should be able to easily find a used Sienna or Odyssey for a reasonable price.

Also, check out edmunds.com. They will be able to give you really good estimates as to what your cars are worth based on location, mileage, condition, accessories, color, whether you sell outright or trade in. They can also tell you what you should expect to pay for a used vehicle with the options you want, your location, etc. Perhaps then, you can make a better informed decision.
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