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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've always used Frontline for my cats and I've been happy with it. Last month my cat, Josie, developed bald sore spots here and there and the vet we took her to, who happened to be a 'natural healing/homeopathic/chiropractic' vet said it was a reaction to the Frontline. He also said he will no longer prescribe any of those treatments because he's seen many animals sicken and/or die from them and that's it's extremely toxic to the liver. He gave us some homeopathic pills to use instead (and they were very inexpensive, I think $3 for 30) and some non-toxic type flea powder. He said he's lost alot of clients because people love the ease of the topical treatments but he can't in good conscience sell them anymore.<br><br>
Since I have not personally seen or heard of any problems with Frontline etc. I was wondering what you all think? Has anyone had any bad experiences?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk">:
 

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Here's a summary of <a href="http://www.advocate-spot-on.com/fileadmin/media/advocate/pdf/Advocate_TM_3_Safety_Studies.pdf" target="_blank">safety studies on topical flea treatments</a>. No adverse affects. The document is from a manufacturer of flea treatments, but it is extensively footnoted with journal articles, FWIW.<br><br>
They've been in use for 10 years on millions of pets; if they had adverse effects, it seems that it would have been pretty evident by now. certainly the FLEAS can have adverse effects -- my cat was infected with tapeworms by fleas before we controlled them, and they can carry other diseases, plus making your pet miserable.
 

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There's also this <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16228278&dopt=Abstract" target="_blank">journal article</a> on PubMed, which is informative but depressing since they killed the cats involved. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> However, the medication had no ill effects.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I want to believe, mostly because they are so dang convenient, but my instincts tell me that how could anything that permits your pet's skin/blood to be TOXIC TO INSECTS be a good thing?<br><br>
Does that make sense? On a purely gut instinct level it scares me since the vet told me about that.
 

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I don't know; the insects themselves are pretty dangerous, and I guess my question would be -- how does he know that it was the flea medication that caused the liver damage or the illness? The research just doesn't seem to bear it out. I would like to know something about his credentials and the evidence he used to derive his conclusions.<br><br>
A flea powder that kills insects is just going to end up inside the cat anyway, since they groom constantly, so I don't see how that's a less alarming option, you know?<br><br>
I also, personally, question the whole validity of chiropractic for CATS, which would lead me not to use this guy as my only source of information when making decisions about treatments.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Right, I agree with that, I wouldn't use a flea powder, either. At least not a conventional one, but he gave us a 'non toxic' one along with homeopathics.
 

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But how do you know it's nontoxic and effective? Either it IS toxic to insects, or it doesn't work, right?<br><br>
Do you know the ingredients?
 

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I can imagine that they are dangerous to some pets. I use them...but sparingly (only about every 45-60 days). My smallest dog who is only 5 lbs. threw up the other day when I put it on him...so no more for him. He didn't lick anyone else or get it in his mouth...it was just from getting into his system that caused him to vomit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I will let you know about the powder when I find it. Right now it's put away somewhere, I don't know where, or I'd give you the info. I suspect dh is to blame for that one!<br><br>
The homeopathic pills he prescribed say (in illegible doctor handwriting <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> ) "SI HEEL" on the envelope.<br><br>
And we haven't tried it, so I can't say if it's effective or not unfortunately. This vet, however, has a very good track record with me so I do trust him, or at least I always have to date. He did talk to us about other things we can do to help with fleas, like brewer's yeast in their food, garlic, diat. earth, borax, treating their bedding with essential oils etc.<br><br>
I do realize that nothing is probably as effective as the topical treatments like Frontline et al. but I would be OK with less effective (and not NOT effective) if these are in fact dangerous. But honestly, I have not made up my mind.<br><br>
If that made sense. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy">
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Thalia the Muse</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8220405"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But how do you know it's nontoxic and effective? Either it IS toxic to insects, or it doesn't work, right?</div>
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Oh, back to that...<br><br>
No, now that I've thought about it I don't think that necessarily has to be the case. Before Frontline etc. were around it wasn't as if all animals were dying of flea infestations - there have been ways to handle fleas for many years and not all have been toxic.<br><br>
toxic to fleas, yes, but I am not worried about them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
It's like saying the choice is either using pesticides etc. when farming or letting the bugs and weeds attack your crop. Aren't there always safe/organic options? Maybe they do not work as quickly as frontline etc. but that doesn't have to mean they do not work.
 

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I´ve always fronlined my dogs (all 5 of them) and I´ve not noticed any reactions in them. My elderly lady who has long since passed away DID get really panty when you applied it.<br><br>
However....I think it is more toxic for cats as there are warnings on the dog frontline not to use it for cats (I don´t think it´s just a dose thing) and I seem to remember some controversey over cat deaths in the UK when it was launched. Though presumably the makers would have tried to deal with that.<br><br>
I´m all for more natural remedies, but I´ve yet to find one that is anything like as effective - we have goats, if the dogs are not frontlined they are covered in ticks. Remember fleas also bring worms, and that can make your animal sick.<br><br>
Sadystar x.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Thalia the Muse</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8220405"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But how do you know it's nontoxic and effective? Either it IS toxic to insects, or it doesn't work, right?<br><br>
Do you know the ingredients?</div>
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Diatomaceous earth can be used as a flea powder. It's completely non-toxic, can be fed to pets (1 teaspoon per 10 pounds) to control intestinal worms, and kills crawling insects, including fleas. It has tiny chystals that cut their exoskeleton and they dry out and die.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sadystar</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8221003"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I´ve always fronlined my dogs (all 5 of them) and I´ve not noticed any reactions in them. My elderly lady who has long since passed away DID get really panty when you applied it.<br><br>
However....I think it is more toxic for cats as there are warnings on the dog frontline not to use it for cats (I don´t think it´s just a dose thing) ...</div>
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For Frontline TopSpot, Frontline Plus, Advantage, and Revolution, it IS a dose thing. (Advantix is another formula, this does not apply to it.)<br><br>
I deal with large numbers of cats. I use Frontline Plus. An extra large dog dose makes eight cat doses. I measure it in syringes to get it right. It cuts the costs dramatically. PM me if you want more information.<br><br>
Advantage extra large dog dose makes between 5 and 10 cat doses, depending on the weight of the cat. The largest Revolution dose makes 4 cat doses and one kitten dose, and is also the most expensive.<br><br>
I do minimize our use of Frontline. It is effective against fleas for three months, according to the packaging. So we generally use diatomaceous earth as flea powder in spring and fall, and one dose of Frontline during the very hottest (and therefore most flea-ridden) part of the year.
 

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I know that Frontline and Advantage are the "new guard" of flea treatments, and are much safer than standard flea collars and powders using organophosphates. The latter are toxic to all living things and you don't want them around small children and pregnant women in particular.<br><br>
The very first time we used Advantage the cats had a terrible flea problem which natural remedies didn't cure. I applied it too low on Em's neck and she immediately licked off a big mouthful. She freaked and salivated and ran around the room foaming at the mouth! I was really upset and called the vet who said cats do that whenever they lick something bitter/chemical, but she would be fine. She was fine, and after that I applied it way up on the neck, almost between the ears. No more problems. They had three treatments total and the flea's seem to be gone for good.
 

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I used Advantage when I had an infestation here and it worked great. I will use it if absolutely necessary but I will NOT use any of that stuff just as a monthly preventative. I am not going to put chemicals on my pets every month any more than I would dose my kids with it once a month. *I* do not feel that they are safe to use on a frequent basis. It doesn't make sense to me how dosing any living being with chemicals every month can be safe or healthy. Anything that goes on skin is in every major organ of the body within a minute. Notice it tells you to wash your hands thoroughly after using and most say to wear gloves when administering it to your pet. As a general rule, if I can't use it neither will my pets. Only in emergencies here, otherwise I am a DE user. *I understand that infestations occur and it can, at times, be very necessary and works well and quickly*
 

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Sad story: A friend of mine had put some flea drops on the back of her cat's neck (I don't know what brand it was. Something from a local store, so I doubt it was Advantage or Frontline.). When she came home from work, she discovered her cat on the floor having a severe reaction. She took it to the vet, who told her that he frequently sees this problem with those type of flea treatments. They did what they could for the cat, but it was too far gone, so she made the decision to PTS.<br><br>
I fortunately have never had to use those products on my cats. I am not crazy about using pesticides on my pets. However, there are always situations that warrent their use (like infestations that are not responding to natural methods), so I'd recommend use them sparingly if needed, and use well-known brands such as Advantage. I personally feel that the bugs will eventually develope a resistance to the products if used too frequently.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Zamber</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8243866"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Sad story: A friend of mine had put some flea drops on the back of her cat's neck (I don't know what brand it was. Something from a local store, so I doubt it was Advantage or Frontline.). When she came home from work, she discovered her cat on the floor having a severe reaction. She took it to the vet, who told her that he frequently sees this problem with those type of flea treatments. They did what they could for the cat, but it was too far gone, so she made the decision to PTS.<br><br>
I fortunately have never had to use those products on my cats. I am not crazy about using pesticides on my pets. However, there are always situations that warrent their use (like infestations that are not responding to natural methods), so I'd recommend use them sparingly if needed, and use well-known brands such as Advantage. I personally feel that the bugs will eventually develope a resistance to the products if used too frequently.</div>
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Oh, those over the counter flea drops are DEADLY! I'd never, EVER use any of them. The only ones I'll consider are Frontline (TopSpot or Plus), Advantage or Revolution.
 
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