Gearing up for battle

1053 Views 21 Replies 17 Participants Last post by ColoradoMama, Mar 29, 2006

pumpkinsmama

Discussion Starter · Mar 27, 2006

DH has strong views on circumscision, all based on nonsense. Basically he just wants his sons to "look like him". I refuse to let this baby be circumscised if it is a boy. I am hoping to find out sex at the twenty weeks scan, but wanted to start researching now, just in case.

If you have BTDT and talked your husbands out of it, what worked for you?

If you ended up just having to tell the doctors you refused, regardless of what your DP/DH wanted how did that work? If one parent denies what happens then?

I wasn't well informed with DS, but I was against it anyway. It didn't feel right or necessary and I had friends who were uncircumscised and weren't "ostrascised" or suffering any stigma. I kept telling DH not to let it get done, but respected his views entirely too much. This time, if it is a boy, I'll take him to court before I let him choose that for another son.

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gridley13

· #2 · Mar 27, 2006

I would take the stance that he will have to talk YOU into it, not the other way around. The default should be the way he is born so if he wants to do something different he should have to prove HIS case.

baby's up, gotta go!

Paper-Bag-Princess

· #3 · Mar 27, 2006

I asked my dh to watch a short video on circ. and to look at some pictures of the procedure. I know the one that sealed the idea to keep our son intact, was a black and white photo of a baby whose mouth was wide open from screaming and crying, while someone's hands were using instruments to cut. That was all it took (well that and me telling dh that it would happen over my dead body!).

I also like the idea of getting your dh to tell you why it is necessary. You are not the one advocating to circ., he is. Let him try to prove his case.

Hang in there mama! We are given these instincts for a reason!

Galatea

· #4 · Mar 27, 2006

I told him I would divorce him first and that made him understand my seriousness and then he read the stuff I had.

willowsmama

· #5 · Mar 27, 2006

the baby is his son - not his carbon copy. There is NO WAY a newborn's penis is going to look an adult's penis to begin with. Amputating part of it will not help that.

If that is his arguement- print off some restoration info and tell him to get started.

pinkmilk

· #6 · Mar 27, 2006

I think another way to go about it is to also reassure your husband that you love his penis.(Sounds funny but they really need to hear this). and that it is not personal. I think alot of circumsized men take it personally when we tell them not to cerc. They get their back up and feel like we're rejecting them and their penis because we want to leave our sons intact. This is often an unconcious feeling that men have but it should be delt with gently. He may have lots of surpressed emotion regarding his own childhood torture and often men hide behind the thought of wanting their son to look like them but I don't think this is the real issue. It goes way deeper than this and isn't even conscious.They may feel shame and anger. And be so in denial of these feelings that they are willing to allow history to repeat itself. Reasure your hubby that you just want to do what's best for your little boy. Be gentle with him. Give him the facts. The video idea is good too. Goodluck to you.

TortelliniMama

· #7 · Mar 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkinsmama
I am hoping to find out sex at the twenty weeks scan, but wanted to start researching now, just in case.

I just wanted to suggest that you settle this issue with your dh (obviously I mean settle his mind as to the fact that you're not going to circ!

) no matter what the u/s says. They can be wrong, and I'd hate to see you in a vulnerable postpartum state with a "surprise" boy, and without the strength to stand up for him.

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sunnysideup

· #8 · Mar 27, 2006

I think many men are not initially receptive to the idea that there's something wrong with their penis. Lots of men are concerned about their son being 'normal' (and by that they mean 'like most people'). So, keep the argument simple. Say something like-- people used to circ because they thought it was necessary, now we know it's not--it's an unnecessary surgery with risks--and that's why most people nowadays don't do it.

My dh was very receptive to this argument. He still doesn't really believe that circumcision causes damage, but he could easily see that it was unnecessary.

hummingbear

· #9 · Mar 27, 2006

Good Luck to you

I havn't been there but have been quite inspired by the posts of mothers on this forum who have.

If you search I am sure you can find a bunch of posts from mothers with one son circumcised and another not. In fact, I think I remember a thread sometime in the last month specifically about this.

Your intention is obvious....... you will find a way!

liseux

· #10 · Mar 27, 2006

Another thought, don`t the loose ones they do now look very little like dad anyway? How much does your first son`s penis look like his dad`s? I have such a hard time with that reason, yet it's the most common reason. There is nothing I would cut off my daughter to make her look like me, if I had a daughter. Once he gets past young childhood, its pretty doubtful that they will spend much naked time together anyway.

boingo82

· #11 · Mar 27, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunnysideup
I think many men are not initially receptive to the idea that there's something wrong with their penis. Lots of men are concerned about their son being 'normal' (and by that they mean 'like most people')...

This is a good point. A lot of the DHs want their son to "look like everyone else..and everyone I know is circ'd".
Yeah, and everyone you know is in their 20s-40s, right?
People are not doing it anymore - the national rate is right around 50/50. Your son will be "normal" no matter which you choose, so why not choose the painless, reversible option?

sunnysideup

· #12 · Mar 28, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by liseux
Another thought, don`t the loose ones they do now look very little like dad anyway? How much does your first son`s penis look like his dad`s? I have such a hard time with that reason, yet it's the most common reason. There is nothing I would cut off my daughter to make her look like me, if I had a daughter. Once he gets past young childhood, its pretty doubtful that they will spend much naked time together anyway.

I always find this argument strange. My daughters are not confused because their genitalia looks very little like mine. A child's genital's just don't look like an adult's no matter what.

nd_deadhead

· #13 · Mar 28, 2006

If "looking like Daddy" is his main argument, you can take one of two directions, whichever you think would be more effective.

1. Ask him if he plans to shave his pubic hair and pack his shorts with ice until Junior reaches puberty, so their genitals will match.

2. Ask what other cosmetic surgery he has planned for Junior, if he happens to have different eyes, ears, nose, feet, or hair color. If DH has a beer belly, or is heavily muscled, ask how soon he will start Junior drinking beer/working out so that they match. Ask him if he will love his son less if their eyes don't match. If facial features aren't important, how important can genitals be - when they are covered up most of the time?

Ask him if he knows for sure if his father is circumcised. My DH and his brother were certain that their father was (since they both are), and only learned 3 years ago that he had ben intact. He fell prey to the horror stories while he was in the Navy during WWII - in spite of the fact that he never had any foreskin problems himself.

Good luck getting him to change his mind. Some moms in your situation have had success trading naming rights for no circ.

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2babybees

· #14 · Mar 28, 2006

DP had the same crap in his head too. I laid out these guidlelines...That *if* we were going to do it he would have to accompany his son for the procedure and then he'd be responsible for care and treatment afterwards solely. Also we would have to wait until the babe was at least a few months old and done by someone who used anethesia. Mostly I was banking on the notion that once the babe arrived and he bonded with him that circ would never come up again. And it didn't. I simply gave him the options to make him feel better. I honestly knew he'd never go for any of those circumstances based on his devotion for our first child. Not the most enlightened route I realize but it what was worked for him.

pumpkinsmama

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 28, 2006

Thanks all for the replies!

You know, I never thought that it could be considered an attack on the way DH is configured. I absolutely can see it floating around in his subconscious. Interesting food for thought!

We've been hashing out other stuff recently, I am probably going to bring it up next week. I'll let you know how it went! Thanks again!

sahli29

· #16 · Mar 28, 2006

Keep the baby with you.Sign decline forms.There are some online. Lame that men want their boys to have half-you know what,but some just won't relent no matter what you show/tell them.My dh has been the same.

"No son of mine is going to have half is penis lopped off for dh,family,or God. "

I stand by that,and so far ds is normal. I wish dh were normal too.Darn his parents for cutting him at 5!

pumpkinsmama

Discussion Starter · #17 · Mar 29, 2006

Argghhhh. I broached the subject with him minutes ago. Amongst the lame arguements: he has to look like his brother, you don't want to cause self esteem issues. I want my son to look like me (again, didn't even flinch when I asked as pp suggested if he were going to shave and pack on the ice until DS was of age for them to remotely look alike) Agreed completely that it was all about how he views his own penus etc.

Arghhhhh. I am going to have to decline, etc. I have seven months to keep working on him, but I guess I will maintain that as plan A.

pumpkinsmama

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 29, 2006

I just went through the web resources area and started reading things out loud. It is frightening how uneducated DH is on the subject! He even suggested I find a site that had both pros and cons... I replied that there are none! There is NO pro to circumscision! I think I have him convinced to try and look at it scientifically instead of emotionally, we will see.

Quirky

· #19 · Mar 29, 2006

I would say keep it as unemotional as possible - tell him to look at the medical organization websites that are posted on this board. Not only the AAP but also the Canadian, British, and Australian medical associations.

If the AAP has come out and said that routine infant circumcision is "non-therapeutic," i.e. the potential benefits don't outweigh the risks sufficient to recommend it as a routine procedure without any medical indication, then why risk all the complications, up to and including death, for cosmetic surgery??

Bia

· #20 · Mar 29, 2006

My bro and sil are expecting another baby any day. Some things that convinced my bro not to circ if it is a boy:
1) Being told that our mother is very sorry it happened to him, and wouldn't have allowed it if she had known what the procedure really was.
2) Being told that it is not extra skin... that they have to rip away the foreskin before cutting it off, and still often don't use any pain reliever. This made him wince like he could feel that pain! I also told my bro that he is purely lucky if he isn't suffering any lasting ill-effects, and that there is a good chance his baby wouldn't be as lucky. (I didn't want to distract him with feelings of defensiveness, so this kept his pride intact while letting him focus on concern for his child.) I said these things right to his face, rather than suggesting he do his own research, despite his wincing and not wanting to hear it.
3) Being told that circ rates are dropping and it is "pretty normal" to not be circ'ed these days.

Good luck convincing your dh!

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