Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey midwives....I have a question. The last birth I attended as a doula the OB and nurse kept telling my client to GET ANGRY...PUSH THAT BABY OUT!!!<br><br>
I was totally pissed. My client did not seem bothered by it and did not mention it as something that bothered her. I am big on not introducing negativity to someone who feels good about their birth experience, so I did not bring it up to her. Some people are just not bothered by the same things that bug me, but I was really really upset by that.<br><br>
She did have an epidural, but she was pushing beautifully without the 'get angry' chant. I just kept quietly telling her you are doing it! to try and counter act the get angry crap.<br><br><br>
Anyway, I brought it up to my midwife as something I didn't like as I am expecting now. She asked me if she had and epidural and then DEFENDED it saying you need to really get people to push hard yada yada yada. I really like my midwife a lot, but I was surprised by this and told her it wouldn't work with me.<br><br>
What the hell is that? Anyone??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,651 Posts
If I'm angry, then I have a lot more adrenaline going through me, and suddenly, a lot more strength. By telling someone to get angry (you don't have to be angry at anyone in particular, or even really angry at all) it helps them get to those extra reserves, and push harder. I can see someone telling me to get angry in labor as being helpful. It's a way of channeling your strength and feelings to your pushing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
Saritabeth, I understand where you're coming from. I wouldn't be into the get angry stuff either. I choose to see birth as something we know how to do, that we can do, that is beautiful and empowering, and that gives us strength while at the same time requiring us to call upon all of our reserves, draining and sustaining at the same time. I don't think it is something that requires anger or competition to accomplish. Others think differently, I guess. Pregnancy and birth bring us closer to our wise women ancestors, closer to our deepest selves, closer to the power of Creation, with the raw energy that makes up our existence, and to me, getting angry to get to that place doesn't quite click. Of course, I'm sure there are plenty who may read this and think "crazy lady", and that's okay. I just wanted to let you know that in my definition of "normal", getting angry to get your baby just doesn't fly (or getting angry at much of anything, for that matter....too many Thich Nhat Hanh books, I guess).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeah....I am really big on intention. I just feel like our intentions are communicated to all those around us whether we are aware or not. I never felt angry when laboring with my daughter except when people were YELLING at me while I was pushing....I felt really distracted and annoyed that I was being pulled away from my place of concentration and focus. If someone told me to get angry I may have ordered them out of the room.<br><br>
I just don't find it a helpful intention to bring to labor. It is totally one thing if it is working for the laboring mom....I have a hard time getting that, but Im not going to try and make someone elses birth match my ideal....<br><br>
I still just wonder what the idological obstetric roots are....I just see it as really really rude.<br><br>
Im a bit concerned that my midwife didn't seem to think it was werid...<br><br>
ugh... Im getting nervous about my own birth and Im only 13 weeks...I just really don't want to repeat the same birth experience I had with my daughter. Im waaaay off topic now!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,444 Posts
It's all about channeling energy, as a pp said. When someone says that, they don't want the mom to get angry at herself, at her baby,at herbirth. They want her to channel energy. Get adrenile flowing. Movethings along. This is especially true of epidural moms who often have no urge to push and don't know how or when to push anyway. Giving them a direction like "get angry" helps them to focus and put energy where it's needed.<br><br>
Would it make me upset to hear someone say it? Yeah. And I've heard it said and it mademe upset until I thought about it as an energy thing. I have perosnally never said sucha thing inmy life to a pushing mom.<br><br>
Namaste, Tara<br>
mama to Doodle (7), Butterfly (2), and Rythm (due at home 1/06)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
I've used it before myself, but only when I have a mom that's flat exhausted (usually with an epidural) or is saying "I can't do this anymore" or "I don't want to do this anymore".<br><br>
I have seen it overused, and it doesn't make much sense to me with a woman who's pushing just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
Yeah, I've heard nurses say that and it really bugs me. I understand what they're getting at, but it still bugs. If you <i>have</i> to say something, I would much rather hear a reminder to dig deep and find your power, but then with a mom who is FEELING her pushing that is so unecessary anyway. I think that advice is about as appropriate for a normal birth as an epidural is. I think if you don't have the natural action-reaction pattern happening between the muscles and the hormones and the brain in pushing then you can't rely on the body because the communication is hampered...so you have to tap into something else, i.e. adrenaline, which is also harder to feel with an epidural. So....although it grates on my ears when I hear it, if for some reason it helps mom to "get mad at the pain" and get motivated to push baby out, then so be it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> but for the record it <i>really</i> bugs me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,440 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saritabeth</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I still just wonder what the idological obstetric roots are....</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Well, probably the same one's that think that having an epidural and laboring flat on your back are a good idea in birth. The one's that see no connection between intention and birth, or any connection between how our births effect our lives.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">If someone says it to me I will kick them.</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> You go girl!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,598 Posts
As a birthing mom I wouldn't like that at all. I understand where they are coming from and I've never had an epidural....but words are really powerful IMO and I wouldn't want to have "Anger" to have anything to do with my birth experience. I think that there are a lot of other things to say to people to get them really going without bringing anger and its negativity into the mix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,651 Posts
I guess it depends on whether you view anger as a negative emotion. I associate anger with the dark side of human nature, but that side is equally "good" as the light side, provided it stays under control. Anger is a neutral emotion, just like all emotions are. We tend to get afraid of such a destructive force though (and see that powerful force as negative), and assign a negative value to it. My dh is a pro at avoiding angry feelings. So, I don't think of it as bringing anything negative into the birth space at all. I'm not sure I'd ever USE it at a birth, unless I felt the mother could benefit from it, because like others have said, there are other ways to harness that energy, but I wanted to explain myself a lil better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Persephone</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">We tend to get afraid of such a destructive force though (and see that powerful force as negative), and assign a negative value to it.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
For me personally, I felt powerful when I was laboring with my dd. I felt like I was doing good hard wonderful work. I was tired, I was excited, I was at times frustrated with my progress....but within all of that I was joyful.<br><br>
I never felt angry at my body, angry at my contractions, or angry while pushing. For myself, I just think its weird to bring anger into the mix at all....<br>
why should I be angry Im in labor and pushing?? Its like saying...."come on run up that hill get mad at it" to a marathon runner....mad at the hill for existing?? Mad at your body? Mad at pushing....I think its totally F'd up.<br><br>
I get that with an epidural you need to be really motivating to help the mom push.....in the case I described before she could feel the pushing...she had a really light and well placed epidural. She was pushing great!! Why be angry?<br><br><br>
I just have never used anger to motivate anyone to do anything.<br><br>
Im now beating a dead horse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,651 Posts
I"m talking about the emotion of anger as a destructive and powerful force, not the force of birth. Birth is quite powerful, but the opposite of destructive in my mind!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
658 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The bottom line is no one should be telling anyone how to feel while in labor or ever. Get angry is just as nutzo as saying "be happy, be happy...push push push"<br><br>
No one likes to be told how to feel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,864 Posts
When I've seen this phrase used the women are usually in the beginning to middle stages of pushing. Some are pushing fine, others(usually first time vag births) aren't pushing as effective as they could be. The phrase usually gets the mothers to push harder resulting in the baby being born faster. I can see how it would help with mothers who are tiring out, have been pushing for a very long time, not pushing effective but I also see it being part of the ob's timeline on how long it should take before getting out some tools.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
419 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Get angry is just as nutzo as saying "be happy, be happy...push push push"</td>
</tr></table></div>
Saritabeth~ I completely agree with you! There is no reason to ever use anger as a motivator, there are many other "tools" that can be used. I am definitely a believer in the babe being concious during birth and 'feeling' whats going on with mom and being imprinted with those first words and "get angry" is a terrible start. The providers that I have seen use this (only one), I have to say I am not impressed with. Your midwife should agree to not use that while your in labor because its your birth and words can be very powerful.<br><br>
My Reiki master teacher told a story to us about going through his training and getting to this point where he always felt like giving up and could not work through it. His teacher worked with him until during a session he realized that his mom was yelling "I can't do this, I can't do this" the entire time she was pushing him out. This became the core of his attitude and once he realized this he was able to work through it. (Its been awhile since I heard him tell that story so I hope I have it right).<br><br>
I am a student nurse, midwife, and I work as a birth assistant. The midwives I work with would never say that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,434 Posts
The wat I see it, birth is not a sport. You don't need a coach and you don't need cheerleaders. On the birth plans I make for my clients, I have a spot where they can choose to not have the nurses cheer when she is pushing. I agree, it's bizarr to me...HOWEVER, if the woman asks and says she likes that kinda thing, then by all means, get out the pom poms!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
727 Posts
IME it's much more helpful for the attending to place fingers just inside the vagina so she knows where to push to and to encourage her by telling her how strong she is and how much power is within her, telling her to picture each contraction going down and out reminding her to breathe and push as she exhales. I would never tell a client to "get angry"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
871 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>saritabeth</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">kept telling my client to GET ANGRY...PUSH THAT BABY OUT!!!<br></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I hate that too! Power and anger don't neccessarily go hand in hand. Plus if you believe babies are sentient beings, is anger the environment you want to create for him as he's coming into the world?<br><br>
going back to read the other responses now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,165 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The bottom line is no one should be telling anyone how to feel while in labor or ever. Get angry is just as nutzo as saying "be happy, be happy...push push push"</td>
</tr></table></div>
Yeah. With my first birth when I was in the midst of horrendous back labor the midwife was telling me "You must learn to love your contractions. Give them little kisses." This was totally dismissive of what I was experiencing, implying that I wasn't doing it right because I wasn't acting like the sweet mellow women in Spiritual Midwifery. It really pissed me off.<br><br>
Which, FWIW, didn't make it easier to get the baby out, it just made me more stressed out. Adrenaline is <i>counterproductive</i> for most of labor, and only the body knows when it's the right time for adrenaline to be released. It's no more appropriate to try to induce second stage (which is essentially what encouraging adrenaline release is doing) than it is to induce first stage.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">If I'm angry, then I have a lot more adrenaline going through me, and suddenly, a lot more strength. By telling someone to get angry (you don't have to be angry at anyone in particular, or even really angry at all) it helps them get to those extra reserves, and push harder. I can see someone telling me to get angry in labor as being helpful. It's a way of channeling your strength and feelings to your pushing.</td>
</tr></table></div>
True. But it's still unnatural and unnecessarily interventive. A woman who hormonal process is unhindered and undistrubed doesn't need to make herself angry in order for the baby to be born.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">IME it's much more helpful for the attending to place fingers just inside the vagina so she knows where to push to and to encourage her by telling her how strong she is and how much power is within her, telling her to picture each contraction going down and out reminding her to breathe and push as she exhales.</td>
</tr></table></div>
This may be so if we're talking about an epidural birth (honestly I don't know.) But instinctive spontaneous birth does not require that the mother be helped to know how and where to push. Even in a managed birth where a mother has lost sight of her instinct I would be concerned that the inhibiting effect would work counter to the direction.<br><br>
Personally, ick. I just can't imagine having someone's fingers in my vagina while I'm giving birth.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top