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Okay, so my son got into this gifted pull out class even though I'm still not convinced he's gifted. Probably nobody in the whole school is in the 99.9 percentile, but anyways, the things he's been learning and telling me are very odd.<br><br>
Last night I was sitting quietly reading a book and my son tells me that gifted grown ups don't read. So the first think I told him was that I'm not gifted and then I said that I'm sure that gifted grown ups read. Then he said that his GT teacher told him that gifted children read early and often, but then they grow up and write books. Gifted grown ups become authors in order to guide gifted kids and so that non-gifted grown ups can understand the world because otherwise they would be lost. She said that those who read books almost always have lower IQs than the authors. She also apparently said some other odd things like non-gifted people should be forbidden to publish because that will spread poorly thought out ideas. Not surprisingly this GT teacher is an author.
 

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I have to say that has nothing to do with a Gifted Pull-Out and everything to do with a wacky-doodle teacher. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">
 

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Sounds like gifted teacher sits on a pretty high horse. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"><br><br><br>
Seems as though this teacher needs some lessons taught to him/her by the 'normal' kids.
 

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Whaaaa???<br><br>
I might actually pull my kid, or at least initiate a conversation with the teacher. Could your son be getting this wrong?
 

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Oh my, that's not a mentality I'd want around my kid. How ridiculous that gifted adults don't read. I had the label as a kid and I read tons and write nothing lol. There is a good example of a pull-out done poorly!
 

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The teacher is out to lunch on this one.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>connieculkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15405945"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Okay, so my son got into this gifted pull out class even though I'm still not convinced he's gifted. Probably nobody in the whole school is in the 99.9 percentile, but anyways, the things he's been learning and telling me are very odd.</div>
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FWIW, most gifted programs look at the top 2% or so, so you are going to find a lot of kids who don't look gifted to you if you consider gifted to be top .1%. My school district has a separate school for top 2% and pull-out gifted programs at the home school for the 3% below that.
 

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I would be taking that to the principal as it's both encouraging discrimination and inflammatory, and is likely a breach of the code of conduct. It might be worth talking to the teacher first to clarify, but if you're pretty sure that while your son may have some of the details a bit off but got the spirit of her sentiments correctly, I'd go to admin.
 

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There is probably <i>some</i> misinterpretation and simplification going on on your DS's part, so I would start simply by letting the gifted teacher know about how what she has been saying is being interpreted. Making an appointment to tell her about this would give you an opportunity to meet her and find out whether she really is as nutty as she sounds. If she isn't actually completely nutty, then she will want to set things straight, so she needs to know how things were interpreted.<br><br>
On an aside, I find it concerning that you don't believe that your DS is gifted. Children tend to either live up to or live <i>down</i> to our expectations of them. Just have faith that your DS is indeed gifted, even if you don't quite get it.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>eepster</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15407605"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
On an aside, I find it concerning that you don't believe that your DS is gifted. Children tend to either live up to or live <i>down</i> to our expectations of them. Just have faith that your DS is indeed gifted, even if you don't quite get it.</div>
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I really don't think he seems gifted though. I mean maybe I'm supposed to, but I just don't. He told me with some shame that he is the smartest boy in his class and I guess part of me sort of doesn't believe it because he doesn't seem that smart to me. I think part of it is that we don't do academic activities all the time so I don't see that side of him first hand. I did try a few times to teach him some advanced math and I have to say I was impressed at his speed and accuracy and also his ability to just get the answer without having to write down notes like I have to do. But he's not one of those driven genius kids who has loads of curiosity and doesn't stop talking about their latest interest. He just reads a lot and does legos, seems intense and angry about being a nerd and a 'wimp'. Maybe his IQ is 135 tops, but I haven't gotten an exact score yet.
 

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yikes! regarding that teacher.<br><br>
and have you read some about giftedness in kids? one thing that stands out in my memory is how common it is for parents to not realize the giftedness... they are used to it as "normal" either because they are also gifted in some areas or because that's just always been the way their kids operate.<br><br>
just found this: <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20010610giftediqsidereg8.asp" target="_blank">http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...iqsidereg8.asp</a> some numbers to compare, and a bit about giftedness not just being about intelligence testing scores. hth!
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>eepster</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15407605"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There is probably <i>some</i> misinterpretation and simplification going on on your DS's part, so I would start simply by letting the gifted teacher know about how what she has been saying is being interpreted. Making an appointment to tell her about this would give you an opportunity to meet her and find out whether she really is as nutty as she sounds. If she isn't actually completely nutty, then she will want to set things straight, so she needs to know how things were interpreted.<br><br>
On an aside, I find it concerning that you don't believe that your DS is gifted. Children tend to either live up to or live <i>down</i> to our expectations of them. Just have faith that your DS is indeed gifted, even if you don't quite get it.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that"><br><br>
I would assume some weird misunderstanding and talk to the teacher. If it was something she said that was misconstrued she needs to know that so she can clarify and explain herself better in the future. If it wasn't a misunderstanding you'll get that vibe in the meeting with her.<br><br>
I'd also suggest some reading about giftedness. You seem to have a number of hangups and miscomprehension about giftedness in this and other threads. <a href="http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/" target="_blank">Hogies gifted</a> is a good place to start.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The reason why I don't believe my son is gifted is because I have read those lists and he doesn't have some of the characteristics of the gifted kids such as a 'rage' to learn, curiosity and a preference for adult interaction. He does have other gifted characteristics though such as he's silly, doesn't work that hard yet does well, self-critical, gets involved mentally.<br><br>
He didn't get into the pull out because of a test score, but rather the principle put him in because I was concerned about his self concept of being a nerd and a 'wimp' (his words, not mine).<br><br>
The reality is that my son is a lot like I was, in some ways his experience is uncannily identical. And I did not get into the gifted program at my elementary school so I keep thinking that he's probably like me, somehow a little bookish, but not outstandingly brilliant.<br><br>
They say that being mildly/moderately gifted (Is this really gifted?) doesn't hinder social success, but that hasn't been our personal experience. My son socializes with the other kids and seems like he fits in on the surface, but if you talk to him he will tell you that he is 'unpopular', nerdy, etc. Why is this happening (even though I've focused so much on teaching him social skills)? Could it be that he really is popular, but somehow feels different from the other kids and doesn't know how to express that? I'm not excited about the gifted pull-out because the teacher sounds odd and because I don't think that it is giving my son any sense of fitting it..I even wonder if it could just exacerbate the problem.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">The reason why I don't believe my son is gifted is because I have read those lists and he doesn't have some of the characteristics</td>
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Those lists can have as much to do with personality as giftedness. On one of the main lists that float around, both my kids falls into the "high-achiever" or "bright" catergory on much of the lists when in fact, when they tested they were in the very highest percentile of giftedness. I find these lists too simplistic and romanticised.... things like "bright kids answer the questions, gifted kids ask the questions." I also find a bias against kids who follow the rules even when bored, work well with others, do well in school, ect.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>connieculkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15408680"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The reason why I don't believe my son is gifted is because I have read those lists and he doesn't have some of the characteristics of the gifted kids such as a 'rage' to learn, curiosity and a preference for adult interaction. He does have other gifted characteristics though such as he's silly, doesn't work that hard yet does well, self-critical, gets involved mentally.</div>
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Gifted children have different interests, of course. Not all will be the stereotypical gifted child racing through sets of encyclopedias. He may be passionate about interests that he has yet to discover.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>connieculkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15408680"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The reality is that my son is a lot like I was, in some ways his experience is uncannily identical. And I did not get into the gifted program at my elementary school so I keep thinking that he's probably like me, somehow a little bookish, but not outstandingly brilliant.</div>
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Our children will not necessarily have the same IQ's that we do. I have long realized that my 5 year-old is much smarter than I was at his age and will probably be a smarter adult. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> I encourage him to work up to his own potential, not my potential.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>connieculkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15408680"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">They say that being mildly/moderately gifted (Is this really gifted?) doesn't hinder social success, but that hasn't been our personal experience. My son socializes with the other kids and seems like he fits in on the surface, but if you talk to him he will tell you that he is 'unpopular', nerdy, etc. Why is this happening (even though I've focused so much on teaching him social skills)?</div>
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Social "success" is dependent on so many factors, though, not just on intelligence. It's depedendent on personality traits, what is valued in the community, etc. If academic success is not valued & viewed as "nerdy" in the school community, then he may be internalizing that. Fortunately, not all school communities are like this. Is he enjoying the gifted program?
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw"> Wow, just wow. FWIW, I'm a book worm AND I have a number of published papers, so you can totally do both! But I agree with PP's, talk to her. Maybe (hopefully?) it was some sort of misunderstanding? I sure hope so because seriously, that's messed up (and oh so wrong!).<br><br>
That being said... I'd encourage your to read up more on giftedness. Hoagies includes a number of personal stories and that might help you to get a better grasp on what it means to be gifted. NOT every gifted student is nerdy. Our homecoming queen at my HS was accelerated 2 years above grade level in math. I was also pretty "popular" in both HS and college even though I would've met the cutoffs to apply to Davidson. DH is the same and actually had an offer to go semi-professional in a rock band but yet he's gifted. The only thing I've seen in common amongst gifted children and adults is that they are oh so different from each other. Get a bunch of gifted adults in a room and try and get them to agree on something (even something trivial!) and it's like herding cats. I've known a lot of gifted individual in my liftetime and they are all so different from each other. You do have some stereotypical geeks but I've also met a number of "cool" guys who'd you'd never guess were science professors!<br><br>
I'd also caution against deciding if your son is gifted or not from your own personal experiences. IQ is not an exact science. On my dad's side where there are 6 siblings there is one PG and the rest are more likely MG/bright. Just like you could have one super tall siblings amongst shorter one (the PG one happens to be about a foot taller than the rest <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">).
 

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My thoughts on the whole questions you have about weather or not your son is gifted are basically "Is what you are doing working?"<br><br>
If he's gifted or not are the accommodations you are making for his learning working? If they are why does it matter what his IQ is?<br><br>
If he's gifted or not is what he's doing failing to meet his needs? If they aren't what does it matter what his IQ is?<br><br>
My son barely made the ability score he needed for the full time gifted program though his acquirement score showed that a regular 1st grade classroom wouldn't have been a good fit. So we made the jump with a grade skip into a full time gifted program even with his borderline ability score. You know what, It's working for him. I wonder if he's really just barely gifted or if we had a bad testing day or what. But, I eventually concluded that if what we did is working for him and what we were doing before wasn't working what does it matter what his scores say about him? I need to meet his needs. If something I try in order to meet those needs doesn't work I need to try something different. A gifted program isn't going to work for every gifted kid, a regular classroom won't work for every child of average ability. Their IQ is only one piece of the puzzle that makes certain situations a good fit or not.<br><br>
So I guess if I were you I try not to get hung up on weather or not he technically qualifies for he gifted label to be in the class. Often times a gifted pull-out is much more social and enrichment than real differentiation. So it sounds to me like the principle is trying to see if that social component will be a good fit for him. I guess I don't see much wrong with that as long as he can keep up with the work in the program.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for the replies. You've given me some things to think about. Would a full time gifted program be a good fit? I think at this point I'll just give it a few years and see what happens. There is a public gifted magnet middle school that seems promising, but I've heard there is a lot of homework, like 3-5 hours a night starting in six grade. But maybe if a child is really smart they wouldn't have to study as much and so wouldn't have as much work.<br><br>
I suppose it's possible for my son to be gifted even though I'm not. I ended up opting for a sperm donor to father my child. The sperm donor I chose was a bilingual engineer who graduated #3 from his class in engineering school and was valedictorian from his high school. The profile didn't mention giftedness and I've always thought that intelligence was more influenced by the environment anyway, but I figured I'd choose somebody who seemed intelligent so as not to handicap my child in any way.
 

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In my own experience, I find that a lot gets lost in translation. Sometimes my child comes home with some very strange reports about what went on, and when I do follow-up with the teacher, I get a different story -- it reminds me of that game we played in school where one person whispers something to the next, and so on, and the last person repeats what (s)he heard and it's something markedly different than the original sentence, though you can see the origins. Of course, the teacher COULD just be really strange.<br><br>
How old is your child, if you don't mind sharing?<br><br>
My oldest is 10 and his teachers go on and on about how bright he is, when the child cannot make a bed properly and has gotten in the car to go to school only to realize he isn't wearing shoes. I take it with a grain of salt. I KNOW he has a super high IQ, but I also feel like he struggles with his EQ; and the common sense factor isn't always there.<br><br>
Anyway, at 10 he still has a lot of interesting interpretations of what happens in school; I usually shoot the teacher an email describing what he told me, then wait to here the official version. More often than not it turns out to be a humorous misinterpretation.
 
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