Gifted with ADHD maybe Asperger's

4748 Views 31 Replies 13 Participants Last post by DaMama, Aug 11, 2011

CassandraD

Discussion Starter · Jun 9, 2011

Anyone else out there with this? My eight-year-old has ADHD w/giftedness. Her neurologist thinks maybe Asperger's too. I'm having a hard time managing behaviors. Any suggestions?

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joensally

· #2 · Jun 9, 2011

Welcome!

What sorts of behaviours are you struggling with? And what kind of input are you looking for - experiential advice, books, strategies??

Also, is the neurologist experienced with giftedness? What tests/assessments were used?

CassandraD

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 9, 2011

Yes, my daughter is seeing a pediatric neurologist who is the first person (other than myself and my daughter's regular doctor) to suggest that she may be gifted. She was given the Stanford Binet-V and scored 139. Her achievement was very high as well. We used the BASC-II and Conner's along with the Quotient test for the ADHD diagnosis. Her meds help A LOT but she is behind her peers socially and most people in the school feels that because she is so smart, she should be better behaved. She cries a lot and over small things. She has a difficult time making friends. She has a misconception of what 'fair' is. And this is the biggest thing...and I don't know what to do about this, sometimes she feels that people are staring at her and she will yell for them to stop and they weren't really doing anything to begin with.

She has made great progress seeing a therapist, but I guess I'm looking for suggestions and maybe just to know that I may not be alone in this. Most of the gifted students in our school are super well-behaved. It would be nice to know that I'm not alone and hear what helped others. Thanks for your response.

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joensally

· #4 · Jun 9, 2011

I've got some great resources for you. Many of them are offered on google books with a large preview so you can get a sense of the book before trying to hunt it down at the library or buying it.

The Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults, Webb et al. (not saying your DD is misdiagnosed, but this book does a great job of describing things. It's hard teasing out what's what when a child is multiply complicated).

The Mislabeled Child, Eide and Eide. (Great descriptions of how certain diagnoses manifest and remediation strategies).

Kids Caught in the Syndrome Mix

When the Labels Don't Fit (I just really like this book, and again it's filled with strategies, including living in your world with a SN kid).

The Oasis Asperger's book

I really like Smart but Scattered - it's about Executive Functioning, which kids with AS and ADHD struggle with. It helps determine which areas your child is struggling in and offers strategies to build these skills.

It sounds like she needs some help with perspective taking. Winner's work (socialthinking.com) is amazing. We've used the SuperFlex curriculum with great success at home, and her other materials are also wonderful.

Do you have access to social skills groups? These are extremely helpful.

What kind of school does she attend? I'm curious that the impression is that you know who all of the gifted kids are, and that they're all well-behaved, and that everyone else knows your DD is smart but assumes she should "behave." It sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. Lots of kids act out, especially in early elementary when they don't have developed self-regulation strategies.

Is your daughter receiving any therapies? Does she have sensory issues? Sensory and anxiety can form a loop that leaves a child rigid in their thinking and limited in their ability to see others' perspectives or reasonably respond to stimuli.

There are a number of parents here with kids who are gifted and have an ASD, or who are "neurologically atypical" but without an ASD. My son's in the latter category, but the strategies that work for kids with AS complexities work with him.

If you're googling, "twice exceptional" or 2E refers to being gifted with another complexity.

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CassandraD

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 9, 2011

I really appreciate your reply. I actually have the Dual-Diagnosis and Mis-Diagnosis; it was recommended by her neurologist. I also bought one called Parenting the Child with ADHD that was great. I think I will look into the when labels don't fit, and Smart but Scattered.

My daughter goes to a public school. She was refered to SAT earlier this year for behavior problems. After several meetings with 10+ school officials and some from county level, I had to take her and have her privately tested. I know who the other kids are because I am also a public school teacher. I just don't have all the answers. I know that my daughter has made a lot of improvement (no thanks to the school), but she still has a way to go. Unfortuneately, they expect a flip of a switch change and are not recognizing that change comes over time.

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hergrace

· #6 · Jun 9, 2011

The books recommended by joensally are great. 2 of my kids are gifted with aspie-like quirks, one of those is on ADHD meds. They both have sensory processing issues. My other 2 kids are more "ideal gifted students" from the school perspective - well behaved at school and not desperate for more advanced material to stay well-behaved.

I am in the thick of trouble-shooting myself, but I am happy to discuss specific issues if you care to share them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joensally

I've got some great resources for you. Many of them are offered on google books with a large preview so you can get a sense of the book before trying to hunt it down at the library or buying it.

The Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults, Webb et al. (not saying your DD is misdiagnosed, but this book does a great job of describing things. It's hard teasing out what's what when a child is multiply complicated).

The Mislabeled Child, Eide and Eide. (Great descriptions of how certain diagnoses manifest and remediation strategies).

Kids Caught in the Syndrome Mix

When the Labels Don't Fit (I just really like this book, and again it's filled with strategies, including living in your world with a SN kid).

The Oasis Asperger's book

I really like Smart but Scattered - it's about Executive Functioning, which kids with AS and ADHD struggle with. It helps determine which areas your child is struggling in and offers strategies to build these skills.

It sounds like she needs some help with perspective taking. Winner's work (socialthinking.com) is amazing. We've used the SuperFlex curriculum with great success at home, and her other materials are also wonderful.

Do you have access to social skills groups? These are extremely helpful.

What kind of school does she attend? I'm curious that the impression is that you know who all of the gifted kids are, and that they're all well-behaved, and that everyone else knows your DD is smart but assumes she should "behave." It sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. Lots of kids act out, especially in early elementary when they don't have developed self-regulation strategies.

Is your daughter receiving any therapies? Does she have sensory issues? Sensory and anxiety can form a loop that leaves a child rigid in their thinking and limited in their ability to see others' perspectives or reasonably respond to stimuli.

There are a number of parents here with kids who are gifted and have an ASD, or who are "neurologically atypical" but without an ASD. My son's in the latter category, but the strategies that work for kids with AS complexities work with him.

If you're googling, "twice exceptional" or 2E refers to being gifted with another complexity.

heatherdeg

· #7 · Jun 11, 2011

As I understand it (based on feedback thanks to my own 7yo gifted-and-flagged-for-both-ADHD-and-Asperger's), ADHD and Asperger's can be misdiagnosed as one another and/or co-diagnosed often. In my son's case, he has no concept that the person that held him down against his will is NOT his friend... so I don't really so much question the Aspie dx; and there's no way I could possibly question the ADHD.

Mine is homeschooled and we don't have the perceived staring thing unless he's super stressed (and often, that's when we're attending something with a group of kids he doesn't know and they're not exactly ushering him in/holding his hand to introduce him to the group vs. just being kids). Does your dd do this when she's not stressed out? Because it could possibly just be a stress response.

joensally--thank you for that list of books. I really need some of those (some I already have "on the list") I'm currently reading "Driven to Distraction" but I have both a ds AND a dh with AD(H)D. Shoot me now...

I'm with the pp in being very happy to talk about specific behaviors and compare notes. But no--you are by no means alone. I was a ps teacher and I also hated the assumption that "gifted" kids should fit a specific profile. But then I also find that they often label high achievers as "gifted". And there's a significant difference.

Oh! And you might want to look at some of the resources here: SENG Institute (Serving Emotional Needs of the Gifted) I keep referring it out and really need to go there myself. A parent of one of my son's classmates at a play-based drama class told me about it and said they had some videos and stuff that were really helpful, but I keep forgetting to look there myself.

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joensally

· #8 · Jun 11, 2011

Read here ----> http://neurolearning.com/Library/

The Eides literally changed my whole view of my son, for the better

. Ok, that's an exaggeration. I already thought he was super cool

, but they helped me put the quirks in context and to have a balanced view of his strengths and challenges.

CassandraD

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 13, 2011

To Heatherdeg,

Are you still working? I've thought of homeschooling, but can't afford to quit my job to do it : (

heatherdeg

· #10 · Jun 14, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassandraD

To Heatherdeg,

Are you still working? I've thought of homeschooling, but can't afford to quit my job to do it : (

Well, before I was a ps teacher I was an IT manager and project manager in banking in NYC and made more money than dh. I lost my job pre-child and we managed to adjust over the course of a few years without losing our house. It was ROUGH. But we are now able to be minus an income for me. To be honest, the whole experience of adjusting to the change in income and how it allowed me to be home when my ds was younger and had some PROFOUND developmental problems (seriously--just beyond belief) has put us in a mindset where we'd soon cram the 4 of us into a 2br apt. for me to be home than have our house. But dh and I are very much on the same page about it. We've seen what my being home has done for our son (granted--he was in a way different place than what we're discussing here... where his is now is a HUGE, HUGE improvement to where he was).

If you and your dh/so feel strongly that homeschooling is what you need, sit down and figure out how to make it happen. Working together, you can figure something out. And nothing says you have to give up work altogether to homeschool. You could certainly work (even if only PT) as long as you could find care for your kids while you're working. The beauty of homeschooling is that you're on your own clock; and that includes nights and weekends. When I did home instruction, the school noted that you could cover an entire week of high school in 4 hours teaching one-on-one. And you know what? They were right. I looked at my classes and how long it took for them to settle in, everyone get to a specific point, etc. and man--talk about a lot of wasted time. You don't need 6 hours/day to homeschool your child.

And look for things you can do from home. Can you do curriculum development? Do you have any certifications that make you a good candidate for consulting/mentoring/tutoring? Have you been teaching long enough & have a Master's such that you might be able to teach college level education courses? Maybe even as an online instructor? These things might supplement enough of your current income to allow you to be home.

If you really want it, seek out the answers! And that's really for anyone that wants to be home for their child--homeschooling, newborn, whatever.

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LittleBitQuirky

· #11 · Jun 15, 2011

I can really relate to this! My daughter has Asperger's and is probably gifted (she was last test 2 years ago before kindergarten in the 95 percentile). She would tantrum over little things--sometimes bizarre little things. She also had a hard time making friends and playing well with other kids. We did behavior therapy which worked wonders with her. She's now learning to manage her emotions better and has many friends at school. She's starting a new school next year (a gifted magnet). At the open house, I thought she was one of the more outgoing kids entering into the school.

Go figure!

Cheryl

Little Bit Quirky

CassandraD

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 15, 2011

Came home from the doctor yesterday with an Autism Dx.

LynnS6

· #13 · Jun 15, 2011

Have they directed you to any resources to help? My nephew is gifted + Asperger's and has really benefited from social skills groups and individual counseling. I think some OT for his sensory issues would help too, but they've gotten him into swimming, which is really good for him.

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heatherdeg

· #14 · Jun 16, 2011

More hugs. Don't be afraid to take some time to get your head around it before moving on. You might even feel like you are mourning a loss--the loss of what you thought life would be with your child. And if nobody's shown this to you before, I hope you will take comfort in it: Welcome to Holland.

CassandraD

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 16, 2011

I actually have seen that before and think its great. I'm not sure that I'm mourning...am I supposed to be? I feel kinda flat and unsure. She is the same kid--very bright and very creative. She has some awesome talents. If given the choice, I would not change her to neurotypical. I think this is a part of who she is. I guess I'm just wondering how to help her and how to get her teacher's to understand her, and how to get her to understand expectations. And I guess, I feel a little guilty that I don't have the answers. I am a special education teacher who is working on an autism certification; shouldn't I be prepared for this? ...but knowing what I don't know makes me feel powerless. Does that make any sense?

Her actions and reactions are sometimes very illogical, but for all of her intellegence, I cannot get her to understand. She cries a lot.

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heatherdeg

· #16 · Jun 18, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by CassandraD

I actually have seen that before and think its great. I'm not sure that I'm mourning...am I supposed to be?

No, you're not SUPPOSED to be in mourning; but if you felt that way-- a lot of people feel guilty or confused if they DO feel mourning.

CassandraD

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jun 20, 2011

I think what I was trying to convey (though not well) is that I felt confused. I feel a little better now though.

karne

· #18 · Jun 20, 2011

When we got the Add/ADHD dx for our child, and meds were very clearly the route to go, I cried, a lot. It was part saddness, but a bigger part relief because finally, it was a validation that there was something beyond "poor choices" being identified. DH and I have no more special tricks for making sense, or working with our kids issues than anyone else, precisely because they are our own kids. We struggled with feeling like we should have the answers, and we felt like other people felt like we should have the answers, but truthfully, we are walking the path right along with our kids, and it's confusing and difficult at times.

RiverTam

· #19 · Jun 20, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by karne

When we got the Add/ADHD dx for our child, and meds were very clearly the route to go, I cried, a lot. It was part saddness, but a bigger part relief because finally, it was a validation that there was something beyond "poor choices" being identified. DH and I have no more special tricks for making sense, or working with our kids issues than anyone else, precisely because they are our own kids. We struggled with feeling like we should have the answers, and we felt like other people felt like we should have the answers, but truthfully, we are walking the path right along with our kids, and it's confusing and difficult at times.

It is confusing.

After a disaster of a school year, I took DS1 for an ADOS and a WISC-III on Friday. I did the ADI-R on Thursday. We're waiting on the results. I am completely freaked out, anxious and sad. I could just sit and cry and cry and cry. At the same time, watching him take the ADOS was a really good experience. He actually did very well. I can see where he has some trouble, but he has improved his social skills and communication skills so much in the last two years.

karne

· #20 · Jun 21, 2011

I wanted to add, on a positive note, that dx and beginning to have a framework for my child's experience, has been very powerful, and ultimately positive, both for him, and us.

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