[loraxc]

DD is 5 and has always been rather immature for her age. We have at times wondered about ADHD or Asperger's, but I don't think she's actually diagnosable with anything, just quirky and asynchronous. She took a LONG time to become interested in social play and friends (I think she was at least 4 before this happened) but now friends are very important to her.

She has a couple of sort of odd habits that other people are beginning to notice. At this point, it's really only older kids or adults who notice, but I assume kids her age will start noticing them soon.

First, she imitates the language and diction of other children a lot when she plays with them. I know this is normal to some extent, but she really takes it to an extreme, taking on speech impediments or baby talk and imitating exact tone. I am a little worried that kids will think she is making fun of them.

Second, she has a frequent and very exaggerated fake laugh that she does whenever anyone else laughs and sort of just at random. I can tell it quite easily from her real laugh; it's obviously fake.

Again, I'm thinking the kids don't really care at this point, but I have noticed other parents exchanging looks and sometimes people comment on the imitation thing.

I have told her a couple of times that the fake laugh and the imitating may make people feel uncomfortable, but have been pretty reticent to make any kind of big deal about it. Should I continue to offer this information or just figure she will get the message in time from other kids, if perhaps not very kindly?

In a way this is a broader question...I think she will continue to be a bit quirky and immature, and I wonder how much guidance one gives a child in negotiating friendship and popularity and how much one just steps back.

 

[meemee]

gosh you have asked the million dollar question.

i have no idea.

i try to figure it out for myself. should i or should i not help. i err much more on not. for instance my dd and her bf are in the same school, both first grade. he gets teased a bit because he is different and my dd furiously protects him chasing the teaser away. YET bf doesnt really care about the teasing. he just ignores it.

so there is a potential to get hurt. it may happen it may not happen. you just never know.

i am more about keeping the quirkiness. because they make such a huge difference to the world. my dd is one too - in a different way.

man if she continues she could be a fabulous stand up comedian. or even a unique poet - performing her poetry at open mike instead of just reading it.

i would say watch and see.

 

[kriket]

have you asked her why she mimicks people? Its quite a skill when you get to be an adult. Being able to adapt to the situation and blend seamlessly regardless of the crowd.

now, I will admit, as a child while you are 'trying on' other people, its odd.

 

[QueenOfThePride]

She sounds normal to me, but to answer your question, yes, children deserve to have social guidance.

 

[zinemama]

Yes, I would definitely talk to her about it. if it's something that is going to cause other people to think she's strange or want to avoid her, it's only fair that she should know. And who's going to tell her if not you? Probably another kid, who won't be as nice and understanding about it as you would be.

I was kind but very blunt with my son about his nose-picking. I told him flat-out that kids would tease him and call him booger-picker. That picking your nose in public is just not acceptable. And that it might haunt him the rest of his years in school. (I went to school with someone who never really got over the stigma of having been the chief booger-picker of first grade. Although he ate them too, which exacerbated things). I didn't want the same for my kid.

Quirky is one thing, but I believe that kids should understand if their behaviors are going to lead to social problems.

 

[heidirk]

First, she imitates the language and diction of other children a lot when she plays with them. I know this is normal to some extent, but she really takes it to an extreme, taking on speech impediments or baby talk and imitating exact tone. I am a little worried that kids will think she is making fun of them.

First, I do have ADD. But I also tend to pick up and mimic other accents, diction, expressions, etc while conversing. I am quite musical, and have a gift for languages. I do it without noticing, it's almost completely subconcious, and I definately don't try it. That particular thing might be a musical/language gift, but the rest of your post sounds a whole lot like me when I was a kid.

When you are relying on other people's reactions for your social clues you are going to be a beat behind everyone else, and laugh at strange times and in strange ways.

I don't know if saying anything to her would help or make her withdraw. In another year or two, you could have her tested for ADD/ADHD, it's noninvasive, and I actually enjoyed it when I was tested.

on a final note, ADD/ADHD are now on the Autism spectrum.

 

[loraxc]

I have been sort of leaning towards waiting to see if and when she gets into social trouble with this, because so far she seems to have friends and be fine. But then I wonder if I am just setting her up.

She is a very unique spirit. Very outgoing and extroverted. I think she actually imitates because she is trying hard to relate to the other kids and be liked. It's funny, because when she is playing with a bunch of 2 and 3yos I internally cringe at how immature she sounds, and then I see her playing with an 8yo at a very sophisticated level, so it goes both ways.

Another issue is that she's very, very friendly with other parents and tends to talk their ears off. She can be inappropriately physical with them, too (gets in their laps, leans on them, etc).

 

[joensally]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heidirk on a final note, ADD/ADHD are now on the Autism spectrum.

Do you have a cite for this? DSM-IV-TR has them as separate categories, so I'm curious if this is a change for the DSM-V to be released?

OP, I think it's good to provide positive social coaching. We do a lot of perspective taking here - "how do you think so-and-so felt when _____." Or when my child dislikes being on the receiving end of something they tend to do themself, I gently nudge them toward seeing that.

 

[heidirk]

It was in a Mothering Mag article last year. I can't find it right now, though.

hth

nak

 

[LauraLoo]

From medscape today:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/523295_4
"Review of AAP ADHD Guidelines--Evidence-Based Recommendations for Evaluation, Diagnosis, and Treatment Protocol Development
Diagnoses
Combining Diagnosis Factors: Multiple Settings, Subtypes"

Under the current DSM-IV criteria, if autism is present, clinicians cannot make a comorbid diagnosis of ADHD. However, because the treatments for ADHD are symptomatic and not diagnostically specific, some ADHD treatments have been used clinically to benefit some children within the autism spectrum of disorders as an off-label use.

joensally -- the new DSM V has a proposed component of relational disorder (issues between 2 significant members of a relationship such as parent & child or husband & wife) where the problem does not stem from one of the persons having an individual disorder: Both members are well individually, but together, they have a sick relationship. (I'm *REALLY* interested to see how this stuff gets diagnosed -- wowzie! )

Loraxc -- I've seen the book, "The Social Skills Picture Book," by Jed Baker be recommended a lot for children who are struggling with putting together social cues.

I'm a big believer in a little preventative, gentle help rather than waiting until a bigger problem develops.

 

[coffee.caugh]

we teach our kids everything, so yes i would give her social guidance. (not meaning to sound rude here at all but) i think it's mean to let her embarass herself until she's older and realizes people are looking at her/talking about her.

 

[LynnS6]

I'd give her guidance about the fake laugh, but leave the 'imitating' alone. Two thoughts on this. First, the fake laugh is clearly fake and it's more likely to trigger ridicule by other kids, and it's a sign that she's trying too hard. Second, she might not be able to help imitating. She probably will be a great language learner - several members of my family can do this, and it's quite a skill!

You might ask her if she notices it, and if so, what she thinks other people will think about it.

Having a socially awkward child myself, I'd vote for instruction before she needs it!

 

[joensally]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heidirk It was in a Mothering Mag article last year. I can't find it right now, though. hth nak

I think it might be this article:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...-families.html

I can't find anybody else except a left/right brain writing program designer who seems to be claiming that ADHD sits within the "spectrum" of pervasive developmental disorders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LauraLoo From medscape today: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/523295_4 "Review of AAP ADHD Guidelines--Evidence-Based Recommendations for Evaluation, Diagnosis, and Treatment Protocol Development Diagnoses Combining Diagnosis Factors: Multiple Settings, Subtypes" Under the current DSM-IV criteria, if autism is present, clinicians cannot make a comorbid diagnosis of ADHD. However, because the treatments for ADHD are symptomatic and not diagnostically specific, some ADHD treatments have been used clinically to benefit some children within the autism spectrum of disorders as an off-label use. joensally -- the new DSM V has a proposed component of relational disorder (issues between 2 significant members of a relationship such as parent & child or husband & wife) where the problem does not stem from one of the persons having an individual disorder: Both members are well individually, but together, they have a sick relationship. (I'm *REALLY* interested to see how this stuff gets diagnosed -- wowzie! ) Loraxc -- I've seen the book, "The Social Skills Picture Book," by Jed Baker be recommended a lot for children who are struggling with putting together social cues. I'm a big believer in a little preventative, gentle help rather than waiting until a bigger problem develops.

Lauraloo, I can't access your link unfortunately. I've done some further googling and what I can find is that DSM-V may allow for co-morbid diagnosis of ADHD/autism, which isn't supported by DSM-IV. This is a good move, as so many of these "disorders" are co-morbid and individuals deserve to have access to the full range of treatment, funding, support, understanding etc.

As for this relational disorder, in these here parts that's just called "a bad match."

OP, sorry for dragging this so OT. I just got stuck on the notion that ADHD was now sitting under PDD diagnostically as that would open a whole new world in the diagnostic sphere. I don't think it's going to under DSM-V though.
http://psychiatry.org/MainMenu/Resea...oupReport.aspx

heidirk, not picking on you

. I was very curious and suffer from need to know-itis.

 

[oceanbaby]

I do believe in giving children guidance, but ultimately it's their decision how to handle it. For instance, one thing my older son was doing when he first met a group of kids (like soccer practice) was to act real goofy by throwing himself on the ground, and doing a whole physical comedy routine. But I could tell that many of the other kids, who had never met him before, just found it plain weird. So I explained to him that while there is nothing wrong with being goofy or trying to make other people laugh, that he should think about how he wants to present himself to people who don't know him yet. I explained that if he's not acting how he normally does, it makes it harder for new people to get to know him.

 

[ericswifey27]

Quote:

Originally Posted by loraxc I have been sort of leaning towards waiting to see if and when she gets into social trouble with this, because so far she seems to have friends and be fine. But then I wonder if I am just setting her up. She is a very unique spirit. Very outgoing and extroverted. I think she actually imitates because she is trying hard to relate to the other kids and be liked. It's funny, because when she is playing with a bunch of 2 and 3yos I internally cringe at how immature she sounds, and then I see her playing with an 8yo at a very sophisticated level, so it goes both ways. Another issue is that she's very, very friendly with other parents and tends to talk their ears off. She can be inappropriately physical with them, too (gets in their laps, leans on them, etc).

I'd say if you have any concerns about her, it couldn't hurt to bring her in for a free evaluation through your local school district. Don't wait, really- you can always reevaluate later on, but you can't go back to those earlier years.

A lot of what you said rang a bell with what we are seeing with our 5 year old, and we are just now going through the assessment process, after he started struggling in a new school setting. I really really wish I had started this earlier, when I first noticed he needed some guidance in certain areas... the ironic thing is I work as a speech therapy assistant and work with kids similar to my son all day long, but it's harder when it's your own child, I just brushed it aside until other people started saying things about his behavior. We are looking into/ have considered ADHD, Sensory Processing Disorder, with some Asperger's tendencies...

 

[loraxc]

I should mention that when I've talked to her about these things, she doesn't seem interested or concerned and pretty much just ignores me. I've been pretty low-key about it, though. If I ask her if she knows she does it or why she does it, she says she doesn't know and also says she doesn't realize she's doing it. She always says that the fake laugh is not fake.

Again, she actually seems to be doing just fine socially right now, so I can't really back up my claims that her behavior may make people feel uncomfortable. However, she is currently in a preschool class with ages 3-5 and for various reasons (mostly to do with gender and preexisting friend groups) she tends to hang out with kids who are 3 and 4. I think things may be different next year in K.

The laugh drives me crazy, actually, and I'd love her to stop it because it grates on my nerves, but I've been trying not to harp on it because it feels pretty mean/controlling to tell DD not to laugh!

 

[leighann79]

My DD1 started using a fake laugh when she started school. I'm not sure why. I do know that now that she is homeschooled she has stopped using it. I am not saying that public school was the reason. I think though it may be a way to try to fit in.
I tried and tried to get my DD to stop laughing like that (it grated on my nerves too) and it did no good. She just finally stopped on her own. Since we also changed to home schooling, I have no idea if that made a difference or if she would have out grown it anyway.