Giving 2.8yo CHOICES so far not working well

Thanks! As far as the pottying, we have been EC'ing him since he was 2mo so he's perfectly capable of going to the potty, knows what it's for, etc. He is for some reason just not yet potty-independent so we have to prompt him at regular times to go. I have tried to give choices with that when possible, like he doesn't have a choice not to go but he does have a choice WHERE to go.

Tooth brushing, I have forced it. Not a lot, but enough. One of the last times I did, I scared him so bad he was shaking, doing that hiccup whimper cry and said I didn't love him DH had to calm him down. I apologized and told him I would not do that again. I did end up doing a 'modified' forced brushing once again after that but still regretted it. I don't expect him to be able to brush properly for a long time, but I'm just wondering what kind of choices I can give him to get him more cooperative with us doing it. I did read ideas in a toothbrushing thread here recently.

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That doesn't seem like a choice to me. It seems like a threat. IF he doesn't go potty THEN you will withhold b00bie from him. A choice would be, "Do you want to go potty OR are you going to put a pull-up on?" Then, go with whatever one he chooses.

I'm not sure what choices you have tried with the tooth brushing. In our family, having help at 2 years is not in question. You could ask him if he wants you to brush his teeth, or if he wants to brush his teeth first and then you check them. Some kids also like the tablets that you can get to "show" the plaque.

Good luck!

Well, first off, a 2.8 year old is not old enough to be solely responsible for brushing his own teeth. He just doesn't have that ability yet. It's great that he's doing it on his own, but if you want his teeth to actually be clean, you probably need to do it again afterward. We did it that way (two steps - one by child, one by parent) for a long time.

How verbal is your DS? Does he tend to understand everything you say to him in general but just not get the choices conversation? Or does he still miss a lot of what you say? If he doesn't have great comprehension yet, you can still use choices; it will help him learn, but it will take longer, so be patient! If he does understand you well in general, then maybe you could try sticking more closely to what MSK said. For example, with the nursing/bathroom thing, you're setting up a situation you don't want to follow through on. So don't set it up. As another poster said, it's basically a threat anyway. A real choice would be the pull up one she suggested or perhaps would you rather go to the bathroom before you put on pajamas or after. Then if he doesn't decide (some people count to 10 to give a reasonable amount of time - up to you!), calmly make the decision for him, and carry him to the bathroom if needed.

For cleaning up, I would never expect a child of that age (or even a 3.8 year old) to do it all by himself. I wouldn't even offer a choice. I'd just say, "It's time to clean up! Can you grab that bin, and we'll put all the toys in it?" Then I'd cheerfully guide and prompt as needed - "Nope! We can't go off and do that yet. We have to finish cleeaning this up first. Could you grab those socks over there and put them back? Thank you!" At that age it's completely normal to have to sit and prompt every single step of the way. Yes it's tedious, but that's how he'll learn to do a thorough job. I still have to prompt some(though way, way less) with a 7 yo! They're still learning to even see the messes, let alone to realize that they didn't get all of it. And we get to help them learn.

You're offering a lot of choices for things that aren't really choices (like the nursing/potty thing). If something is non-negotiable, then don't offer a choice of whether or not to do it. Instead you can offer WHEN he does it or HOW he does it (with the hat on or not, for example). Save choices for things like whether he wants to go to the bathroom before or after pjs, whether he wants milk in the red cup or the blue one, whether he wants a sandwich or noodles for lunch, and so on. Whether or not he puts his shoes on is probably not a choice. The choice can be does he want to do it, or does he want you to do it for him. Then you calmly proceed to put his coat on him if he doesn't choose, telling him that you chose for him since he didn't choose. Or let him choose which pair of shoes if there are a couple of appropriate options. But set the acceptable choices (please just two choices at this age!) out for him, and then proceed. If he doesn't choose, you do. Just be careful to be sure you're offering a real choice - meaning you can be happy with either choice!

Also, it might help if you try not to see his behavior as defiant. He's two. Part of his job at that age is to figure out what happens when he does something. Sometimes that involves figuring out what will happen if he does what you say not to. He's learning, so make sure that what he's learning is a good lesson - that it's important to fix his mistakes (i.e. clean up the laundry he dumped) and that mama will help him fix his mistakes.

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Yes, I feel like it is a veiled threat also and don't like doing it and could not think of another way to word it or what kind of choice I could give him for that situation. I'll have to think of something else besides pull-ups though. Maybe I can do like during the day, give him an option to either use the toilet or bathtub.

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yes he has been pretty verbal for quite a while. He completely understands and almost always answers if it's a fun or good thing for him, like which way to go for our walks, does he want THIS treat or THAT treat, etc. It's the stuff he does not want to do that we struggle with. So I think he generally understands what I mean by choice.

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In the example I used, I did pick it up the first time not even asking him to, the second time I asked him to and told him I would help (and even started doing it) and he just ignored me and purposely did not make eye contact. So if I understand correctly, it's OK for ME to pick it up, and if he doesn't want to participate that is fine but he needs to stay with me until I'm done?

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I have been trying to keep this in mind but maybe I am not getting good enough at it yet

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For things like this example, it is extremely difficult. He is strong and we struggle and struggle. Even if I explain to him beforehand like you said, it doesn't seem to work. I have also tried letting it go and if he doesn't want to put it on fine, and he has done that and realized it was cold and then wanted his coat on.

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I am trying. It's so hard!

In my experience giving choices doesn't work every time and with everything. Often my three year old chooses "Nothing!" when given a choice between two jumpers, two chores or two methods of doing something!

For tooth brushing I often let them choose which voice I'm going to use to sing the "tooth brushing song" while I brush - the lion voice or the giraffe voice? But tooth brushing has been difficult for us too, as he will simply say "none" if he doesn't want to do it in the first place. The thing that worked best for us was actually buying an electrical toothbrush.

As for the "laundry dumping" I would ask him to pick up one particular item at a time, like "Can you put that blue sock there in the basket please?" and thank him if he picks up any - if he refuses I would just let it go. It's not as if he's never going to learn co-operation if he doesn't help every time. If he tried to dump them again (I'm assumng he's emptying out a basket of laundry on the floor?) I would say "No more, please, we don't want to pick it all up again", and move him or the basket away. It's not a big deal, they like emptying things out at that age, but he will eventually grow out of it.

About the potty question: I would let him wear a nappy at night if he doesn't want to use the potty. I think it's important that this doesn't come across as a "consequence" (punishment), though, it should simply be a choice, or he might just resent the evening potty even more as a result.

I agree with previous posters that giving choices can sometimes put too much responsibility on a small child. It's good to let them decide when possible, like what to put on his sandwich or which shoes to wear, but there are still quite a few decisions that have to be made by parents.

I understand that you're an ECing family, but I think you might need to find a solution that is a more absorbent bottom, because the "potty or no boob" thing is definitely a threat/punishment, and he's right at the age to start diggin in and resisting that. A choice of, "potty or these absorbant pants, because I don't want to have to have wet sheets" makes it an actual choice.

I also wouldn't give toothbrushing responsibility to a 2.8 yo, nd if after trying several ideas to make it consensual didn't work, I would make sure I compelled a brushing every few days (and I have done that for a brief time period wth both kids until they got OK with brushing again, and they did, on their own after they outgrew the stage)

and for the dumping laundry, so totally normal. I like the Pp idea of giving him specific things to clean up, like name each item, take turns, etc. but some children can need help cleaning up messes (accidental or deliberate) for years and years. My 2-1/2 yo is a more independent cleaner than my 5-yo. I can ask her to pick something up and she'll do it, so long as I'm giving her direction. I can do the same for DS, and he'll wail pathetically, "but won't SOMEONE *HELP* me?" as if he were sinking in quicksand or something

Also, I thought I'd mention that both of my kdis went through stages where giving them choices throughout the day made things worse than me *benevolently* making decisions for them (moreso my son than my daughter)...like, it was too much for them to think about when they were trying to learn so much else, that they couldn't handle "red cup or blue cup", and would start to freak out over things more easily. This is not to say that I didn't take their opinions into consideration or offer them choices *when* they expressed dissent, I just for a while didn't offer choices as a default because it was making things worse for us. It was more, "OK, time to go. Let's get shoes on." "NOOOO!" "We have to get going now - you can pick your shoes or I will, but we need to get going." and then within a minute or so if they didn't pick shoes I would, and would carry them to the car to get us moving. I would validate their upset and empathize and tell them next time they could choose if they wanted, but would gently move on with the day.

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Our kids too. Sometimes benevolent dictatorship relaxed them more.

My kids also went through a period (starting close to 3, so your son might be there), when they could spot a "false" choice that was trying to pacify them, and we had to give up the choices altogether. So, "do you want your water in the red cup or the pink cup?" was met with "I want APPLE JUICE and I don't care which cup!"

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Yep - us too.

The other thing you might think about is setting up some routines so that he knows what comes next. In the "It's time to go scenario" I would often say things like "It's time to go, what do we do first?" My kids like to tell other people what to do. If for some reason that didn't work, I could then get silly/playful and that often breaks the tension. "It's time to go, what do we do first?" no response. "hmm... do we put on our pajamas?" "NO!!!!"

For bedtime you could try that -- "What do we do first, first we go potty, then PJs, then stories, then we nurse, then we brush your teeth." And you can mix it up and see if he 'catches' your mistake. My kids love it when I'm wrong!

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Oooh, good examples! Those are the kinds of choices OP can really use! Excellent! The no potty, no nursing thing is too arbitrary (and kind of mean), I think.

Thanks! Maybe I am giving him TOO many choices. I do try to give him choices I can live with.

He does do better on a schedule, and for quite a while now we always try to let him know what is coming next. I'm in the process of purchasing a visual schedule, i had a hard time finding one but finally did so we can schedule out his day in pictures on a board. I'm also getting a clock from timetimer.com. He is pretty good at time limit warnings but it will still be nice to have.

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Seems to me I tried that and that doesn't always work well either. Just depends on his mood.

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Gee, now I feel worse than I already did I did mention a couple times I didn't know how else to get him to potty at night and was trying to think of other ideas and that I did not like it. Last night he did start to fuss and I told him we were doing something different and I will show him, so I managed to get his pants down, sat him on my lap and aimed him into the tub and he was OK with that (normally we use potty topper on the toilet).

Please remind me this high-spiritedness will be to his advantage when he gets older. I told DH last night that sometimes I'm so afraid he will be out of control when he is older, like I won't be able to handle him. I can hardly handle him now sometimes.

Totally silly thing that works for the potty here (dd has my huge bladder and can wait forever, but then she needs to go NOW at inopportune places and times )
is "I'm going to race you to the potty! *I'M* going to get to go FIRST!" Then she runs to beat us... Totally goofy and gets old, but works.

-Angela

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Thanks I will try that! Reverse psychology worked for us recently with the teeth brushing, it finally got him going again to at least get him to start brushing himself (and I'm trying to start in again about us doing it in addition). DH actually thought of it, but we were being silly about it and DS knows that but so far it is working.

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Sorry! I didn't mean to make you feel worse, but I did feel kind of strongly about the issue. I know you aren't trying to be mean!

I race my kid to do all kinds of things. He HATES to lose, so it works pretty well. Is your DS tall enough to pee standing up? I know my DS really liked to do that.

Also, think about this -- what are the logical consequences of not peeing before bedtime? Waking up and having to pee? Wetting the bed? What will happen if he doesn't try the potty before bed? I might be willing to let him go to bed without going, just to see what happens, but I'm weird that way (of course, I'd make sure his bed had a waterproof mattress pad on it!). My DS can go a long time without peeing. Maybe your DS is the same way.

I agree on dropping the nursing/potty connection. What if you bought him a little potty and he could choose from that or the toilet? The idea of a kid peeing in the tub really grosses me out. And if you get the Bjorn potty, you can even give him a choice of colors in the store!

I do agree with the posters saying you might be expecting too much with so many choices, though. My girls are highly verbal and really had a rough time with choices at that age. They sort of understood but didn't really *feel* it, KWIM? Sometimes they just got flummoxed and cried because they couldn't decide, sometimes they were OK.

Oh, and I know you said you tried the benevolent dictator thing and that didn't work, either. I think it's important to remember that at this stage, nothing is really going to "work" all the time. Sometimes you are going to be the best parent you can be, offer completely reasonable options, and your toddler is going to hurl himself on the floor and tell you "NONONONONO GO AWAY MOMMY!!!!!" as if you just tried to make him eat his own puppy.