[crunchyconmomma]

I know that many of you on here know a zillion times more than any of the docs we found for my son, so I need to get some MDC wisdom.<br><br>
My just-turned-3yo has horrible seborrheic dermatitis on his scalp and some patches of eczema type stuff behind his ears among other issues, like constant "cold" symptoms, lots of diarrhea/loose stools, etc.<br><br>
Conventional doc said "Seb. derm., here's steroidal cream. It's not related to eczema and I don't know the pathogenicity of seb. derm." and I said, "<b>Why</b> did I go see him?"<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"><br><br>
Found an immunologist with repuation for 'getting' food allergies, nutrition-health connection.<br>
He said, "Dairy allergy. Classic, down to kid's temperment as nursling. No dairy at all, 2 months, come back."<br>
He also said, "No substitutes - no almond milk, soymilk, etc."<br><br>
I didn't ask why then, and later I just assumed it was because he's only 3, he might get confused when someone babysits, something like that...<br><br>
But now he goes back to daycare when my classes resume and they want to give soymilk. Called Dr. to ask why he said no substitutes and his receptionist (you know the poor girl - the one who got the job because she just isn't quite bright enough to do much but look pretty at the desk taking insurance forms and scheduling?) returned the call and said, "Because it's all dairy."<br><br>
Well, no, sweetheart, soymilk might be <i>crap</i>, but it isn't dairy. But the doc didn't get back to me and now I am tweeked because I have no answer for the daycare AND I am beginning to think this doctor could actually think that that is the reason not to give nut/soymilks. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he just said no to those because almost all have added sugars, or chemical "vitamins," or the soy is not fermented in soymilk, or because they are also highly allergenic foods. But since I can't get him yet, I am left feeling skeptical.<br><br>
Why do you suppose he said it?<br><br>
Also, how long off dairy before I notice improvements in eczema stuff?

 

[kjbrown92]

I have no idea why a doctor would tell you no substitutes. That doesn't make any sense at all. Rice milk doesn't have added sugar. It has added calcium and vitamins if you get the enriched stuff! I wouldn't give him soy, because there are so many kids who have a problem with milk that ALSO have a problem with soy. And maybe the almond milk is a nut thing?<br><br>
I would say that a week or two on a skin issue. Just because it sounds like it's been there a while. My daughter still has a little behind her ears, but not like when she had it before I took her off her intolerance foods. But the diarrhea/loose stools probably won't take as long (maybe 3-4 days?). As long as dairy is the only thing he's reacting to AND is THE thing he's reacting to (could be most any food really).<br><br>
If nothing gets better, then I'd say start a food diary. My dd's pediatric gastro doc. said 6 months off the food to heal the lesions in the intestines and give the immune system a chance to reset itself....<br><br>
Kathy

 

[crunchyconmomma]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kjbrown92</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10264643"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I wouldn't give him soy, because there are so many kids who have a problem with milk that ALSO have a problem with soy.<br></div>
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Wow this is interesting! I wonder if it is something protein-related? A certain enzyme lacking needed to digest both? Not that it matters much, just something that gets my curiosity going.<br><br>
As for the time until you see change, it's been since the 17th of December and absolutely NO improvement in his scalp or any of his skin issues. So I do think it is something else.<br><br>
I wonder about everything now, soy, wheat, eggs? The wheat is big because he gets bread and pasta, LOVES bagels and bread and all sorts of stuff....and he gets so crabby, like maybe the wheat is affecting his mood.

 

[mtn.mama]

Hi Kate-<br>
I say follow your intuition. If you think it might be wheat then do an elimination trial! But I would stay off the dairy too for now, it might not be all the way out of his system yet. FWIW, eggs turned out to be the big culprit for our cradle cap, rashes and eczema. And I would start a food diary now. Is he using probiotics, essential fatty acids, etc?<br>
Lisa

 

[crunchyconmomma]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mtn.mama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10265232"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hi Kate-<br>
I say follow your intuition. If you think it might be wheat then do an elimination trial! But I would stay off the dairy too for now, it might not be all the way out of his system yet. FWIW, eggs turned out to be the big culprit for our cradle cap, rashes and eczema. And I would start a food diary now. Is he using probiotics, essential fatty acids, etc?<br>
Lisa</div>
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well, I don't actually know anything about that stuff, and this is the first time it has really become a necessity to learn. He complained a week ago of his penis hurting and the tip was all red. I looked on the circ forum and saw a suggestion to get some liquid acidophilus and have him...ahem, dip his stick<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> so I also gave him some on applesauce (1/2 a cap) for a few days. But there are so many strains and brands! Whew...I don't know where to begin!<br><br>
How did you figure out it was eggs for your kid(s)? Just eliminate and go from there? What do you look for in a food diary? How soon do things worsen or improve after eating or not eating something? Boy this seems overwhelming...especially when the next semester starts in 2 days!

 

[Panserbjorne]

soy and dairy are cross reactive. Many stipulate it is a matter of the proteins being quite similar.<br><br>
Eczema can be produced by an allergic reaction to ANYTHING. Dairy is the number one culprit, but it's followed (closely) by soy, egg and gluten.<br><br>
I second the probiotic and EFA suggestion. A high vitamin CLO is your best bet, and for gut healing you want a bifidus strain in whatever you get. Natren makes a dairy free bifidobacterium probiotic IIRC.<br><br>
I am confounded by your docs statement. The alternatives are cr*p as far as I'm concerned, but he didn't lecture you about all hte other evils out there, just the replacement milks. Weird. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
You should expect to see *some* improvement within 6 weeks if you eliminated the right thing. Often people see quicker results, but it's a very individual thing.

 

[crunchyconmomma]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10265969"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">soy and dairy are cross reactive. Many stipulate it is a matter of the proteins being quite similar.<br><br>
Eczema can be produced by an allergic reaction to ANYTHING. Dairy is the number one culprit, but it's followed (closely) by soy, egg and gluten.<br><br>
I second the probiotic and EFA suggestion. A high vitamin CLO is your best bet, and for gut healing you want a bifidus strain in whatever you get. Natren makes a dairy free bifidobacterium probiotic IIRC.<br><br>
I am confounded by your docs statement. The alternatives are cr*p as far as I'm concerned, but he didn't lecture you about all hte other evils out there, just the replacement milks. Weird. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
You should expect to see *some* improvement within 6 weeks if you eliminated the right thing. Often people see quicker results, but it's a very individual thing.</div>
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Man the MDC mamas are gooood!<br><br>
I have the HVCLO and HVBO from WAPF recommendation...(Green Pastures, is that the brand...-in fridge upstairs)...anyway, I can't get him to take the fish oil AT ALL! I was desperate and would try holding him down and forcing it to the back of his throat like people do with their pets but that felt just as wrong for his little system - all that stress and the bad vibes.<br><br>
He probably won't take it now, but still want to know...if he can't have dairy, do I avoid giving the butter oil, despite what Price says about the synergy of the HVCLO and the HVBO and the fact that he is probably only allergic to pasteurized dairy?<br><br>
Someone told me of some brand of CLO that comes in little squeeze packets and it's creamsicle flavored (this is a WAPF-knowledgable/following-type friend, so I don't think they're all artificially flavored or anything, but not 100%). But I don't know that it's HV, like the stuff from the WAPF site. Is any that he will take better than none?<br><br>
in the line about the probiotic you recommend, what is IIRC?

 

[Panserbjorne]

IIRC=if I remember correctly (always an issue nowadays!)<br>
Anything is better than nothing in terms of CLO as long as it's free of additives (and doesn't have A and D stripped and synthetic counterparts added back in) and batch tested for quality (mainly heavy metals and PCB's)<br><br>
Most kiddos will take Carlson's lemon flavored-my kids LOVE it. Nordic Naturals isn't bad, but has virtually no vitamin content. Both have vitamin E sourced from soy if that's a problem.<br><br>
I would avoid BO at this point. You don't know the degree of his sensitivity (or even if it is dairy) at this point. It doesn't have protein in it, in theory, so you may try introducing it later AFTER the eczema is gone. Then you have a baseline and know if it's a problem. Now all you'd see is his eczema NOT clearing. Not helpful.<br><br>
Pasteurized dairy is nasty, but if you are allergic to the protein then it's unlikely to change. Yes, pasteurization scrambles the proteins some, but I've yet to see someone with a true casein allergy be able to tolerate it.<br><br>
If it's a different issue (like an enzyme problem) then he may be able to do it. Again, wait until his reaction has cleared 100% to attempt a challenge.<br><br>
I'm not a huge fan of WAPF's stance on dairy and allergies in general. There are better places to learn, for sure. They tend to wear blinders.

 

[kjbrown92]

If you want to do a food diary, I have two versions as excel spreadsheets (and sad to say, I've been handing them out a lot on here) that I used for my dd at different times. PM me with your email, and I'll send them as attachments. One is just more detailed then the other. If he's been off dairy that long and there's no improvement, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's NOT dairy, but could be dairy AND something else. Personally I'd try milk and soy for a few weeks. And if no improvement, I'd take out all top 8 allergens for a few weeks.<br>
Kathy

 

[crunchyconmomma]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10266396"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm not a huge fan of WAPF's stance on dairy and allergies in general. There are better places to learn, for sure. They tend to wear blinders.</div>
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Yea, I just don't know any of them yet!<br><br>
I'm off to some other threads to look for packed lunch ideas.

 

[MamaMamaMama!]

I just wanted to mention that a year ago my 9 mo old had a similar kind of rash around her ears and chin; everyone kept telling me it looked like an allergy so I tried all kinds of things but after struggling to cure it for MONTHS and having different doctors give me every reason under the sun for the rash, it finally popped into my head to get a swab test done. Turns out she had four different kinds of bacteria swimming around on her face, including staph. An antibiotic cream cleared it right up. Your issue might be totally different but I just wanted to throw that out to you as an idea.

 

[crunchyconmomma]

that's an interesting case. I do wonder if there is something other than food, like stress, or chemicals with my son. I do have my thoughts that I have definitely created this because of my beliefs, that everything we eat is wrong and every product we use is wrong and everything we breathe is wrong and wrong wrong wrong! So lo and behold! I have a super-sensitive kid who needs a super special environment to be "well."<br>
I'm meditating and EFT'ing my butt off on this stuff right now!

 

[LovinLiviLou]

Have you looked into oxalates? Wheat is high, and oxalate issues are related to problems breaking down sulfur a lot of times. Eczema, cradle cap, and penis pain are classic signs (but I know that eczema and cradle cap are classic signs of a lot of things - the penis pain is what caught my attention).<br><br>
General info:<br><a href="http://www.lowoxalate.info/" target="_blank">http://www.lowoxalate.info/</a><br><br>
Also, there is a yahoo group called "trying low oxalates"<br><br>
If you join the group, it's a lot to wade through at first, but I've noticed A LOT of references in messages to penis pain being a sign that parents have learned to pick up on.<br><br>
I'm obsessed with oxalates lately as we've recently learned that it does appear to be one of my daughter's issues (she had really high oxalic acid levels on her OAT test), so I may be projecting, but I just thought I'd throw it out there . . .<br><br>
Oh, and at the risk of getting flamed, I found that my daughter does much better on regular clo (nordic naturals) than the high vitamin. The high vitamin was actually NOT good for her with all the other things going on with her oxalate levels. It's hard for me to admit that since I thought high vit CLO was THE gift from all heavens after doing endless research on it and reading all the WAPF material, but alas . . . I must admit I was wrong about it (at least for her - it's still great for me). Lesson learned - each body is unique and needs different things!

 

[Panserbjorne]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LovinLiviLou</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10292114"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br><br>
Oh, and at the risk of getting flamed, I found that my daughter does much better on regular clo (nordic naturals) than the high vitamin. The high vitamin was actually NOT good for her with all the other things going on with her oxalate levels. It's hard for me to admit that since I thought high vit CLO was THE gift from all heavens after doing endless research on it and reading all the WAPF material, but alas . . . I must admit I was wrong about it (at least for her - it's still great for me). Lesson learned - each body is unique and needs different things!</div>
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Do you know why that is? There is no biochemical cross between oxalates and vitamin A in terms of pathways. One thing has nothing to do with the other as far as I know. Do you have any leads? I wonder if it was a poor choice because of other issues?

 

[Maggirayne]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>crunchyconmomma</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10264810"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I wonder about everything now, soy, wheat, eggs? The wheat is big because he gets bread and pasta, LOVES bagels and bread and all sorts of stuff....and he gets so crabby, like maybe the wheat is affecting his mood.</div>
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Hi, I was on an ED for dairy, wheat and sugar because of thrush, lots on stuff on here, and one of the things about Eczema (which can be related to yeast/thrush) was that often a trigger food is something you love/crave. So I would say definitely go for eliminating the wheat. Are you near a Trader Joe's? I heard on here they had really good food.

 

[LovinLiviLou]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>firefaery</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10293072"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Do you know why that is? There is no biochemical cross between oxalates and vitamin A in terms of pathways. One thing has nothing to do with the other as far as I know. Do you have any leads? I wonder if it was a poor choice because of other issues?</div>
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I suspect it was the vitamin D causing the problem. I would need to go back to my notes and check exactly what the reaction is, but I think I'm remembering that D interferes with calcium's ability to bind to the oxalate and help it exit the body. I think after we get things a bit under control, she may be able to use it again, and just space it out to not be with cal/mag with food, but for now I couldn't find a spacing that worked. However, you could be right that it is something completely unrelated to the oxalate issue. She has so many things going on that it is hard to isolate things sometimes. I have taken it out of her diet several times and added it back in (trying to control for all other things as much as possible), and it does seem to be that she is better without it or with the nordic naturals.

 

[Panserbjorne]

Duh. Sorry. You're right. Vitamin D would prevent the calcium from attaching to the oxalates. I haven't slept in 3 days and it's showing <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
I couldn't get past vitamin A on that one. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[DreamsInDigital]

My DS2 had severe food allergy related eczema as a baby and once I started on the elimination diet his skin cleared up completely in about 2 months. I noticed an improvement within 2 weeks though. Good luck, it's a really tough change to make but SO worth it once you see how much of a difference it makes in your child.

 

[mamaverdi]

Borage oil is excellent for applying directly to sebb. derm.<br><br>
Sunlight can also be good.<br><br>
The antibiotic cream could have worked because often skin irritation turns into secondary infection, especially if scratched.

 

[crunchyconmomma]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Maggirayne</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10293401"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">and one of the things about Eczema (which can be related to yeast/thrush) was that often a trigger food is something you love/crave.</div>
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This isn't the first time I had heard this one - commonly accepted thinking in this realm is that anytime we can't handle a food (allergy/addiction/intolerance) we crave it, hence the reason I did elimination on sugar/flour so many times (and still fall off the wagon every so often!)<br><br>
But you made me think of it again and it's been a burning question: <i>why</i> does that happen? anyone know the physiology of craving that to which we are allergic/intolerant?<br><br>
and no, we aren't near a TJ's anymore, but yes, they were great and pretty cheap. For now, I just buy whole foods and for the few processed type things, I go to a local HFS.<br><br>
And....GREAT NEWS!!! Now that I understand that soy and dairy are cross reactive and have elminated both, the eczema does seem to be noticeably less severe. Fingers crossed!<br>
And, he's eating so much better because now I am in control of his school lunches and snacks and the works!!!!<br><br>
Also, that oxalates issue is extremely interesting, I'm glad you brought it up, LovinLiviLou.