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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We just had some new friends over yesterday and we exchanged books-- I gave the new Neudstaeter (sp?) and received:<br><br>
(drum roll please-- for our side)<br><br>
"What Every Parent Should Know about Childhood Immunizations"-- Jamie Murphy<br><br>
Yes, I know it was published first in 1993 and the edition I read (stayed up most of the night) is the Fifth Printing in 1997, but I did a search on this site and found it mentioned once in a great biblio by "cobluegirl", and once in a post by "ifixbacks" back on sept. 12, 2000-- neither had any details.<br><br>
I've read a few books but this was the most concise 150 pages (192 with citations) on the entire topic that I have seen.<br><br>
Great basic immunology, great info on breastmilk, there are thousands of quotes that jumped out at me from the page as I read that I wanted to put here but I'll just do the table of contents:<br><br><br>
1. What every parent should know<br>
2.The power of human immunity--( and it is powerful!)<br>
3.Immunization versus natural immunity<br>
4.The making of a Vaccine (uggggghhh)<br>
5.Vaccination and animal experimentation<br>
6.Witch's Brew: Toxic chemicals in vaccines<br>
7.The provocation effect of vaccines and other drugs<br>
8.the decline of childhood diseases before vaccination<br>
9.Whooping cough in vaccinated and unvaccinated children<br>
10.the adverse reactions to vaccines<br>
11.measles in the 1980's<br>
12.the myth of vaccine immunity<br>
13.Vaccination and the Law<br>
14. How to Legally avoid Immunization<br>
15. the protective factors in breast milk<br>
16. An open letter to parents<br><br><br>
On page 26 it had the "smoking gun" I've been looking for with casein (the milk protein) allergy:<br><br>
"Tetanus toxins are produced in a culture broth of dextrose, beef heart infusion, sodium chloride, and casein." (it gives citation)<br><br>
"Diphtheria toxin is produced in a similar culture."<br><br>
"The killed whole cells of pertussis bacteria are the final component of the DPT vaccine. The organisms are grown in a medium of hydrolysate of casein..."<br><br>
Now, the only recent change I am aware of is the move from whole cell pertussis to acellular, but whether or not the initial phase of culturing is different is the next question.<br><br>
Irregardless, there is plenty of probability for casein in the final product.<br><br>
For the life of me, I cannot imagine anyone reading this book and vaccinating--- I just can't!!<br><br><br>
Don't just procreate, disseminate!,<br><br><br>
Ray
 

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sounds like a good book! i think i am askin for that one on the "swap" thread <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
...mom2tig99Nroo03,<br><br>
I couldn't resist popping back to put out a little info from chapter 15----<br><br>
yeah you guessed it--<br><br>
BREASTMILK!! (I think we should appeal to whomever to make it one word!! give it the respect it deserves and a new place in the dictionary.<br><br>
p.147-- Antibodies or isoagglutinins have been isolated from breast milk in response to the following desease organisms: tetanus; pertussis; pneumonia; diphtheria; polio virus1,2,and 3; mumps; Coxsackie and echo virus; smallpox; and influenza organisms."<br><br>
AMAZING how these are the exact things that they want to vaccinate for-- it looks to me like breastmilk makes vaccines completely unnecessary.<br><br>
And this reference for those interested is Arnold Goldman and C. Wayne Smith, "Host Resistance Factors in Human Milk", Jouirnal of Pediatrics 82, no. 6 (1973): 1083<br><br>
Unbelievable--- 1973!!! Way back when. So while Nestle, etc. (correct me if I'm wrong) is "pumping" it's formula all over the world, and all the pharmaceutical "pushers" are developing their vaxes, this information is sitting there all along.<br><br><br>
"The protective antibodies in colostrum and in later breast milk are derived from all classes of immunoglobulins, especially IgG, IgM, and IgA. The greatest concentration of antibody in breast milk is IgA."<br><br>
No wonder my son's measles was so easy! He was getting this from Mom, plus more IgA from the yogurt.<br><br>
"The secretory immunoglobulin found in breast milk is thought to be produced in the mammary gland of the mother. SIgA greatly benefits breast-feeding infants because it coats their intestinal tract with an "antiseptic paint", thus protecting the infant from bacterial and viral invasions from such pathogens as E. coli, poliovirus, streptococci, staphylococci, and pneumococci."<br><br>
Great image in that "antiseptic paint"<br><br><br>
There's so much more that made this goodpapa proud.<br><br>
My advice to some of the dws out there who have dhs that don't quite get the picture is to get him a copy of this book--<br><br>
its that thorough and convincing.<br><br><br>
This train's gotta leave the station!,<br><br>
Ray
 

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I think this was the very first vax book I read. It not only convinced me not to vax, but convinced me I needed to keep on reading!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/jaw.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="dropjaw">
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
William Blake, Etched about 1790-1793<br><br><br>
Plate 4<br><br>
The voice of the Devil<br><br>
All Bibles or sacred codes have been the causes of the following Errors:<br><br>
1. That Man (read humans) has two real existing principles: Viz: a Body & a Soul.<br><br>
2. That Energy, call'd Evil, is alone from the Body; & that Reason, call'd Good, is alone from the Soul.<br><br>
3.That God will torment Man in Eternity for following his (her) Energies.<br><br>
But the following Contraries to these are True:<br><br>
1. Man (humans) has no Body distinct from his (her) Soul; for that call'd Body is a portion of Soul discern'd by the five Senses, the chief inlets of Soul in this age.<br><br>
2. Energy is the only life, and is from the Body; and Reason is the bound or outward circumference of Energy.<br><br>
3. Energy is Eternal Delight.<br><br><br>
Feed your head,<br><br>
Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
...you were very lucky to pick it up first thing.<br><br>
My reason for squawking about it is that it only took me one issue of Mothering to get the message, but most people don't have the time or energy or even power of conviction to do all the "digging." I'm a powerfully self-motivated "gotta know" kinda guy that goes full tilt at whatever I'm doing whether it's heavy machinery or research.<br><br>
I was a big Sherlock Holmes fan as a kid-- detective stories morphed into a search for "truth" early on, started the rocky road of "excess that leads to wisdom."<br><br><br>
But I know a good story when I read it, and Jamie Murphy did a damn good job-- not just blasting the vaxes but giving good, sound info on the POWER of our exquisite human bodies.<br><br><br>
I just bought two copies on amazon,<br>
one for my re-reading pleasure, one to lend out,<br><br><br>
Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
...so sorry-- you don't get off that easy (LOL)<br><br>
Any response as far as I'm concerned has to be a line by line, inch by inch, yard by yard...<br><br>
...commentary<br><br><br>
Actually, the above (and even only one small aspect) has EVERYTHING to do not just with "vaccination in the medical sense", but with the entire friggin mess that western "civilization" (even N.Z., where ever it considers itself to be)<br>
is in the grips of--- and from which maybe we won't escape.<br><br>
But just the fact that I had to annotate it, says to me that maybe, just maybe, we're on track (remember my train.)<br><br>
The thing is (and I know you know this) it ain't over 'till it's over--<br>
that's "hope, faith and activism."<br><br>
I really want to say more, but for the sake of the greater good...<br><br>
... and the fact that I don't feel you read Sparrow closely enough or my poems for that matter...<br><br><br>
TO THE TEXT!! (letter and spirit are One),<br><br><br>
Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
...from the Murphy book.<br><br>
P.151 Section titled "Breast Milk Kills Polio Virus"<br><br>
runs a full page of info and citation:<br><br>
"The colostrum milk that was drawn two to six days postpartum had an 84% success rate in neutralizing polio virus. Even late breast milk that was drawn six to twelve months postpartum had a 73% neutralizing effect on the polio virus."<br><br>
In summary at page bottom:<br><br>
"These studies elucidate that human colostrum and mature breast milk, produced in lactating mothers two days to twelve months after delivery, have a very strong anti-viral activity against polio virus. They also demonstrate that breast milk has an anti-viral activity against many other viruses, independent of the presence of antibody to that virus in blood."<br><br>
Wow-- "independent of the presence of antibody to that virus in blood"-- truly amazing!<br><br><br>
Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
...practice what you preach<br><br>
I've seen plenty of extraneous info flooding into this place from your keyboard<br><br>
I may be new here, but I have MY WAY of doing things as well<br><br>
and I have every right to represent my perceptions of the Vaccine HOLOCAUST in the multiplicity of ways that I choose.<br><br>
A Book-- a single solitary item-- that people can peruse that has well written rhetoric can be more effective that any number of<br><br>
PILES of tomes!<br><br>
I liked this book, and I think it is quite useful for those who want to see the forest, rather than become a tree!<br><br><br>
Here's a flag for MY NEW "colonization:<br><br><a href="http://www.foundingfathers.info/stories/gadsden.html" target="_blank">http://www.foundingfathers.info/stories/gadsden.html</a><br><br><br>
Read it and heed it!!<br><br><br>
Ray
 

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goodpapa -<br><br>
Thanks. I'm definintely going to check that one out. It'll be nice to have something introductory and concise to hand to my mother when she finally finds out we're not vaxing at all.<br><br>
Personally, I don't have the time or inclination to track down, read, try to process, and archive a lot of medical studies or other high-end information. I don't need that information to make me feel comfortable about my decision. I know in my heart it's the right thing and that's all I need. Anyone close to me who needs to be comfortable with my decision can use this and other books as a jumping-off point in their own research.<br><br>
Just my .02.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
....I want to mention again the best 25 bucks I've ever spent:<br><br>
"Prescription for Nutritional Healing" (Third edition, BTW) by Phyllis A. Balch, CNC and James F. Balch, M.D.<br><br>
I got it at my local Whole Foods.<br><br>
Great details (almost 800 pages) of the relationship between our Human Form Divine and just about everything -- good and bad-- that goes into them in the course of a lifetime.<br><br>
Think of it as a Bible for the New Eden.<br><br><br>
Don't just Procreate, Disseminate!<br><br><br>
Ray
 

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Hilary,<br><br>
How many times have I seen mamas come into this forum and ask what they should tell their pediatrician about their decision not to vaccinate? And how many times has the answer been that they have no obligation whatsoever to explain or defend their decision to their pediatrician?<br><br>
So which is it?<br><br>
And is my ability to quote medical journals really going to be the difference between CP being called in or not? It seems to me that a doctor who wants to call CP based on non-vax is going to do so no matter what I tell them.<br><br>
And for those of us without an encyclopedic knowledge of vaccine-related research, if you would be so kind, what is the best source of the latest information, with medical journal refs of course?<br><br>
Do you think it would be sufficient for me to print out or copy and include these in a notebook to hand to the doctor, or is it vital that I commit it all to memory to be able to recite it when confronted?<br><br>
Thank you so much.<br><br>
Natalie
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
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...is simply an excellent introduction to parents who are trying to sort the vax mess out.<br><br>
It works beautifully because it provides BASIC knowledge -- simply a starting point-- of the human immune system, esp. breastmilk-- allowing anyone who reads it that doesn't know these things previously to feel comfortable in taking no action with regard to vaxes, and perhaps simply making sure there bodies are healthy.<br><br>
The more quickly one decides on not-vaxing, the more quickly they can turn to researching and studying their bodies systems, which in my experienced opinion is time far better spent as an IMMEDIATE next step.<br><br>
As far as CPS is concerned or standing in a court of law you two are just FEARMONGERING. It may have happened, but there are a hell of a lot of people out here refusing vaxes to the medical professions face and moving on to the next step.<br><br>
You know why I know that? Because I'm out in the street meeting them.<br><br>
What a couple of Patriarchal Pedants!<br><br><br>
You become what you behold,<br><br>
Yeah, that's ole Blakey again-- you'd do<br>
yourselves a service to check it out<br><br><br>
Ray<br><br>
P.S. Hilary, it's Hilarious that you complain about my writing style, 'cause it was good enough for the University of Michigan to give my a full fellowship for my graduate study!
 

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Hilary, I apologize for my sarcastic tone. I realize it doesn't accomplish anything constructive. Obviously I don't consider myself an expert.<br><br>
However, I'd just like it remembered that not every mother is going to approach this issue the way you do. Some of us have to argue not only with pediatricians, but with mothers, fathers, grandparents, and other assorted relatives and friends.<br><br>
So don't discount the role that books like Jamie Murphy's can play in those situations. I can hand those people all kinds of journaled research but they wouldn't read it and probably couldn't make any more sense of it than I could.<br><br>
It's not necessarily "better" to have specific, higher-end information, as opposed to someone else's thoughts. It just depends on the purpose you intend to use them for. I appreciate book recommendations such as these, and I'm sure a lot of other people in this forum do, also.<br><br>
Amnesiac - thanks for the Medline and MMWR suggestions. I'll definitely check those out.<br><br>
Natalie
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by amnesiac</i><br><b>Personally, I don't think there is an adequate single printed source. For me, a Medline search is the quickest & easiest way to find things. Also, I find a lot of things in MMWR.</b></td>
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Where can I access Medline? And does anyone have a list of useful articles found there?
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by goodpapa</i><br><b>As far as CPS is concerned or standing in a court of law you two are just FEARMONGERING. It may have happened, but there are a hell of a lot of people out here refusing vaxes to the medical professions face and moving on to the next step.</b></td>
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Ray, they're not fearmongering. Things can go from fine to horrible in a snap. All it takes is one trip to the ER where there's a doctor who thinks non-immunizing people are the devil, and you can have a mess.<br><br>
It took my son 4 years, but he got sick enough to have to go to the hospital, and had I not known some things I needed to, I'm honestly not sure where we'd be right now. And I learned to be prepared because I wasn't when my dd was born in a hospital, and that was a nightmare experience. It doesn't hurt to have a game plan.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><i>Originally posted by Hilary</i><br><b>The THIRD situation however, is quite different. This is the situation where maybe you are in hospital with a child who has a deep gash on their leg, or is seriously ill with something, and then they hoe into you as to what sort of negligent mother you are, who would not immunise.<br><br>
THIS is where you need a high level of knowledge, IF you are going to survive a visit to hospital, with anything like the personal satisfaction that you have proven that you have spent a lot of time, energy and brains on the issue.<br><br>
Under these circumstance, to give them Jamie Murphy's book, will simply reinforce their view that you have been led by the nose by someone who in their eyes, counts for squat.</b></td>
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This is so true. ER's with five doctors peering at you demanding why you don't want them to shoot up your child is pretty awful. Add panic, stress and sadness to the equation because your child is sick, and you have a nice mess.<br><br>
They don't care about your religious beliefs for not vaccinating. Or books or pamphlets or anything. They are in charge, you came to them for help. All they know is that you are there with a child who has an infectious disease or something serious that they could have been vaccinated for. So you shouldn't be sitting there, in the doctor's minds. You are a horrible, neglectful, crazy parent. Crack mothers get treated better.<br><br><b>Not every mother will approach the issue as I do. But every mother I have ever had dealings with in my years of doing this slog, who has got themselves into a situation where the "power" transferred to the medical profession, and they were "captive" in that situation and had no verbal comeback, has wished they did.<br><br>
Every single one of them. Without fail.</b><br><br>
This is so true. My first experience in a hospital with not vaccinating was horrific. But it made me realize I needed more knowledge and a better game plan. The second time I went in, it wasn't pretty, but a much better experience. I knew my rights, I knew what was going on. All I had to do was stay up for about a week straight. And argue (calmly of course) and then argue some more.<br><br><b>All I want people here to do, is to take every possible scenario, and work out what they would do, what they would need to know, and how they would go about protecting their child's interests.</b><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br><b>Because the immunisation issue CAN be as simple as "What do I want to know?", but it can also turn to custard, and become "What should I have known to prevent that happening?"</b><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nod.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nod"> See, if we could always know what was going to happen, where would the fun be? It's when you least expect it that you end up in these type of situations. So it's at least advisable to have some kind of plan.<br><br>
If I've repeated myself eight times, I'm sorry. I've been up for 32 hours, things don't make sense. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">
 

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I imagine that many people here know Sandy Mintz and her Vaccination News page. One area of her page is called Literature Searches and has groups of citations on various topics.<br><br><br><br>
I feel as though the argument on books vs medical literature is an example of people talking past each other.<br><br>
Books are useful: they can give an overview of a topic, point to areas for further research, raise questions and so on. As has been pointed out, correctly, a book is no substitute for the literature citations when the medical profession and CPS are leaning on you. So read books for general info and collect medical citations so you have your ducks in a row (just in case, plan ahead, they really are out to get you).<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"><br><br>
Deborah
 
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