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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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The 3rd to the last PP states that adults will soon be subjected to this also. I hope changes people's minds fast.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The 3rd to the last PP states that adults will soon be subjected to this also. I hope changes people's minds fast.
This paragraph?
The noose is tightening as providers are pressuring parents — and soon adults — to get all their shots regardless of the controversy, lack of safety studies and proper informed consent. It’s one nation under Pharma until the consciousness shifts fully towards health freedom, full medical consent and returns to medical ethics.
Since I started seeing a doctor I have gotten asked about vaccines a couple of times, but so far no problems about saying no thanks.
 
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That "independent journalist" doesn't know how to form plural nouns. Superb journalism skills.

Doctor lets everyone know up front that he won't treat patients who don't vax on schedule. That's his right. I'm sure there are other doctors in that area of California.
 

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Doctor lets everyone know up front that he won't treat patients who don't vax on schedule. That's his right. I'm sure there are other doctors in that area of California.
It does seem very upfront. You would know what you're getting.

I agree that private doctors can put any legal requirement they like on their patients (also presumably should be medically advised!).

Personally I think it's a mistake though and opens up a slippery slope. I think Doctors should treat everyone, and adults should be allowed to refuse recommended treatments.

That said Doctors are certainly should also be allowed/encouraged to repeat their recommendations on every visit. I get that that must be annoying for non vaxers to be repeatedly reminded they are going against their Doctors advice, but it must also be annoying for the Doctor to repeatedly have their advice dismissed.
 

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but it must also be annoying for the Doctor to repeatedly have their advice dismissed.

it's even more annoying for a patient to have serious concerns and questions about medical procedures brushed off by a dr, only to have life threatening complications of said medical procedure due to idiot dr NOT LISTENING TO HIS PATIENT
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It does seem very upfront. You would know what you're getting.

I agree that private doctors can put any legal requirement they like on their patients (also presumably should be medically advised!).

Personally I think it's a mistake though and opens up a slippery slope. I think Doctors should treat everyone, and adults should be allowed to refuse recommended treatments.

That said Doctors are certainly should also be allowed/encouraged to repeat their recommendations on every visit. I get that that must be annoying for non vaxers to be repeatedly reminded they are going against their Doctors advice, but it must also be annoying for the Doctor to repeatedly have their advice dismissed.
In the US there are close to 25,000 deaths per year due to antibiotic resistance. How many doctors make patients sign a contract to comply with the doctor's recommendations on antibiotics--as in not demanding them when the doctor suggests waiting to be sure they are needed? How many doctors refuse to treat patients who won't comply with medication schedules? How many doctors refuse to treat patients who won't comply with dietary requirements? How long does it take a physical therapist to kick out a patient who won't do their exercises?

Vaccinations seem to be a special category, where doctors go way beyond what is normally required from patients in terms of compliance with recommendations.
 

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It does seem very upfront. You would know what you're getting.

I agree that private doctors can put any legal requirement they like on their patients (also presumably should be medically advised!).

Personally I think it's a mistake though and opens up a slippery slope. I think Doctors should treat everyone, and adults should be allowed to refuse recommended treatments.

That said Doctors are certainly should also be allowed/encouraged to repeat their recommendations on every visit. I get that that must be annoying for non vaxers to be repeatedly reminded they are going against their Doctors advice, but it must also be annoying for the Doctor to repeatedly have their advice dismissed.
When I was pregnant with my eldest my husband lost his job and I was forced on to state funded clinic care, run by the only GYN practice in my large Upstate NY county. Part of their "standard of care" was that every patient help pay for their new ultrasound machine by having an ultrasound at the first visit to "establish gestational age", even though routine ultrasound was against all recommendations at the time.

I had been TTC five years. I had a pile of notebooks with calendars which contained every morning temperature for that time, every mucus observation, and every behavior that might possibly be related to reproduction, with time stamp. I also had xeroxes of the American Academy of Pediatrics, the AMA, and the CDC official positions on ultrasound during pregnancy. They refused to treat me, or even look at my materials. At all.

So yes, doctors may set any standard they like, and refuse to treat on that basis.

I encourage everyone to carefully consider whether they are really pleased about that.
 

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It does seem very upfront. You would know what you're getting.
It would be lovely if this up-fronted-ness could occur before Americans pay the typical $68-$120 USD exam charge, not after. It doesn't seem right to blindside patients with this requirement after they're already locked into paying.
 

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It does seem very upfront. You would know what you're getting.

I agree that private doctors can put any legal requirement they like on their patients (also presumably should be medically advised!).

Personally I think it's a mistake though and opens up a slippery slope. I think Doctors should treat everyone, and adults should be allowed to refuse recommended treatments.

That said Doctors are certainly should also be allowed/encouraged to repeat their recommendations on every visit. I get that that must be annoying for non vaxers to be repeatedly reminded they are going against their Doctors advice, but it must also be annoying for the Doctor to repeatedly have their advice dismissed.
I don't particularly like it either. I vax on schedule but would likely not choose a doctor with that kind of a contract. I just think that doctors, like film festivals or movie theaters, have a right to run their businesses as they see fit.

I read in the contract that if the patient/parents did not sign, they would not be seen in the office. I assumed that also meant they would not be charged. I agree that they should not have to pay if the doctor won't see them.
 

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@SchoolmarmDE

The exact same thing happened to me. Wouldnt even look at my charting. Low and behold their estimates were off by 2 weeks and mine were dead on. They also said they'd ask me to find another provider if i declined the 28wk rhogam unless i was a jehovas witness. Ive since educated myself and know a lot more now about the laws but still, medical choice is slowly getting eroded bit by bit. Even if you do fight it and win the right to choose would you really want that providor to care for you or your child?
 

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There are lots of worrisome & illegal things doctors offices & hospitals try and pull.

I recently helped a family member who had their identity stolen via their SS # . They had no idea they were not to give it to doctors offices & hospitals. One of the biggest states for ID theft is FL and via medical facilities, per the IRS agent we dealt with.

Just because they wear a white cost or sit behind a desk connect to a medical facilities doesn't mean what you are being told is valid.
 

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There are lots of worrisome & illegal things doctors offices & hospitals try and pull.

I recently helped a family member who had their identity stolen via their SS # . They had no idea they were not to give it to doctors offices & hospitals. One of the biggest states for ID theft is FL and via medical facilities, per the IRS agent we dealt with.

Just because they wear a white cost or sit behind a desk connect to a medical facilities doesn't mean what you are being told is valid.
Unfortunately and sadly, so many are believing that person in the white coat is the 'know all, go to' person, when that may not be the case at all. Very bad advice leading to death has come from a white coated person in that medical facility.
 

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@SchoolmarmDE

The exact same thing happened to me. Wouldnt even look at my charting. Low and behold their estimates were off by 2 weeks and mine were dead on. They also said they'd ask me to find another provider if i declined the 28wk rhogam unless i was a jehovas witness. Ive since educated myself and know a lot more now about the laws but still, medical choice is slowly getting eroded bit by bit. Even if you do fight it and win the right to choose would you really want that providor to care for you or your child?
In my case, it almost had me wind up with an unattended home birth. For my first. In February.

I'm pretty sure the legislators funding this character weren't picturing a doctor who made up requirements, against standard medical practice, to impose on patients.

Legislators are essentially conservative in outlook. Sometimes their imaginations don't reach to people who use their social position, including those as doctors or teachers, to just make stuff up. They have to be helped to see how often the Emperor needs a robe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
In my case, it almost had me wind up with an unattended home birth. For my first. In February.

I'm pretty sure the legislators funding this character weren't picturing a doctor who made up requirements, against standard medical practice, to impose on patients.

Legislators are essentially conservative in outlook. Sometimes their imaginations don't reach to people who use their social position, including those as doctors or teachers, to just make stuff up. They have to be helped to see how often the Emperor needs a robe.
Yeah, my experience is that both the public in general and legislators do not look critically at what comes out of the mouth of someone who is a medical professional.

I can give an example. Many years ago there was a battle in a local city over water fluoridation. At a meeting I attended a dentist spoke up and told a tragic story about a child with horrendous tooth decay who lived out in the country and drank well water. I pointed out that this wasn't science, it was an anecdote, and proved zilch. The dentist was seriously shocked to be challenged by a mere human. Several of the other people around the table were amazed at my daring at directly questioning a medical professional.

Hey. They are just people. They don't always know more than we know.
 
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Yeah, my experience is that both the public in general and legislators do not look critically at what comes out of the mouth of someone who is a medical professional.

I can give an example. Many years ago there was a battle in a local city over water fluoridation. At a meeting I attended a dentist spoke up and told a tragic story about a child with horrendous tooth decay who lived out in the country and drank well water. I pointed out that this wasn't science, it was an anecdote, and proved zilch. The dentist was seriously shocked to be challenged by a mere human. Several of the other people around the table were amazed at my daring at directly questioning a medical professional.

Hey. They are just people. They don't always know more than we know.
We are grateful for the dentist we have now. He's pretty laid back. We decline the fluoride, I only allow x-rays when we are there for an issue with the teeth (which is really rare since we stopped using fluoride coincidentally) and we have said no to having the third molars removed in our children. I tend to get more push back from the dental assistants. When I went in for my cleaning recently the DA said that I hadn't had x-rays for over 5 years so she was going to do some. I said "no thanks, I'm not having any issues so I don't see the necessity". She bristled. A dental assistant at different office would give me a hard time because I refused the fluoride treatment for my kids when they were younger. Yet my kids are in their late teens now and have never had a cavity. :serious:

But it makes me wonder: How many people would agree to a dentist requiring you to sign a contract that you would undertake all recommended procedures or be kicked out?
 

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Much of medical practice, if not outright patriarchal, mimics the patriarchy. Slightly related, this blog post mocks an honest-to-goodness sign posted in a Utah obstetrician clinic. http://www.theunnecesarean.com/blog...e-anti-doula-sign-in-the-utah-obstetrici.html

The reader-submitted changes are pretty funny. I'd love to see something similar done to the vax contract. :Sheepish

The bottom line is that health care consumers are getting sick to death of doctors trying to dictate or strongly manipulate what happens to their own and their children's bodies.

And contrary to the common strawman, nobody is contesting the "right" of these clinics to practice this paternalistic medical militarism.
 

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I agree that private doctors can put any legal requirement they like on their patients (also presumably should be medically advised!).

Personally I think it's a mistake though and opens up a slippery slope. I think Doctors should treat everyone, and adults should be allowed to refuse recommended treatments.
Agree. If doctors can "fire" patients for non-compliance re: vaccines, then I guess they have to fire the smokers, the obese, the drinkers, the non-exercisers, basically anyone who is not following the official recommendations re: what constitutes a healthy lifestyle. But then I'd question why they wanted to get into health care in the first place, if it wasn't to assist and support people in making "healthier" choices according to their personal situation.

I had an issue where I was seeing a specialist in 2014 and he recommended a course of treatment that is subject to a class action suit in the US and one is apparently in the works for this country. I declined his repeated requests that I agree to it. A patient should be allowed to refuse suggested treatment, if they have concerns for their own safety and well being.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Much of medical practice, if not outright patriarchal, mimics the patriarchy. Slightly related, this blog post mocks an honest-to-goodness sign posted in a Utah obstetrician clinic. http://www.theunnecesarean.com/blog...e-anti-doula-sign-in-the-utah-obstetrici.html

The reader-submitted changes are pretty funny. I'd love to see something similar done to the vax contract. :Sheepish

The bottom line is that health care consumers are getting sick to death of doctors trying to dictate or strongly manipulate what happens to their own and their children's bodies.

And contrary to the common strawman, nobody is contesting the "right" of these clinics to practice this paternalistic medical militarism.
We do, however, object when they do faked up "science" to justify their paternalistic medical militarism, or call in the army (government) to enforce their demands.

Free-market is the best way to do medicine. They demand. We leave.
 
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