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As my other post states, I'm trying to draw up an agreement....my ex supposedly says that he's fine with sole physical custody for me as long as we have joint legal. I will not state actual visitation times on this - it will just say that he will have "visitation as the parties agree" (unless anyone knows a better way to word it).<br><br>
Since my ex has been abusive to me in the past and is still verbally abusive, I really do not WANT him to have even joint legal custody. But I know he won't sign anything otherwise...and he might get that in court, anyway.<br><br>
I am just trying to avoid going the court route because as we all know, they all too often do NOT consider what a child really needs and are all too happy to grant even a bad father liberal visitation.<br><br>
I am wondering how much clout "joint legal" really has....<br><br>
Thanks again!
 

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Do you have any proof that he has been abusive towards you? Any police reports or restraining orders? If so, the courts may take that into consideration and grant him less visitation. I really can't say though, I've seen judges make some screwed up rulings. You might want to have visitation spelled out on paper to cover your butt, I know that my divorce agreement needs to have dates and times along with who will pick up/drop off. It makes for less arguing and need for negotiation between ex and I (my ex is also very emotionally abusive).
 

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I would strongly encourage you to set up scheduled visitation while you have the chance. Inevitably, either he won't want to see the kids enough, or he'll want to see them too much, and there will be a debate that will have to be settled in the courts anyways.<br><br>
My husband and I have joint custody, while I have primary placement. He has visitation every other weekend, and we're very lenient on the hours. Sometimes he'll pick the kids up at 9am Saturday, other times at noon. He'll bring the kids back anytime between 6pm and 10pm Sunday. If he wants to see the kids any other times, it's completely okay with me. I encourage him to have as much time with the kids as he'd like. Of course, he's a good dad. His parenting has never been a question.
 

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We have it stated that if we can't reach a decision, we MUST seek mediation first to work to resolve the matter before any legal action can be taken. If you aren't going to put in specific days/times, then I'd consider putting this in as a way to save some money down the road.<br><br>
Another consideration, is that if you don't have specific days/times for visitation, the police would be less likely or able to do anything in the instance of him not bringing back the kids.<br><br>
The courts are really encouraging parents to have joint custody, so it's difficult (unless you have hard, factual proof) to get full custody.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MsChatsAlot</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Another consideration, is that if you don't have specific days/times for visitation, the police would be less likely or able to do anything in the instance of him not bringing back the kids.<br><br>
The courts are really encouraging parents to have joint custody, so it's difficult (unless you have hard, factual proof) to get full custody.</div>
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I agree, CYA as much as you can. The more you have in writing the less negotiating you have to do with your ex. Agree on a schedule and get it in writing. If you don't put it in writing who is to say that ex can't fight you for 50/50, you would have a hard time proving which days each of you have visitation if you have nothing in writing. I also agree that courts hardly ever grant *no* visitation, even with newborns. Unless you can prove to them that not only is he an unfit parent but it will be DAMAGING for him to have visitation. It's pretty hard to prove. It sucks mama, but make sure you CYA and get everything in writing, down to the times pickup will take place.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MsChatsAlot</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Another consideration, is that if you don't have specific days/times for visitation, the police would be less likely or able to do anything in the instance of him not bringing back the kids.</div>
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Just what I was going to say. If he were to take the kids when it wasn't his *turn* or if he keeps them longer than you two agreed on it would be hard to get the kids back, just because it would turn into a "he said, she said" sort of thing. My custody agreement says "visitation as the parties agree" or something to that effect and I don't really like it. But it was done that way because the visits were changing so often (at first it was changing every couple weeks because he started off with 1 hour and was building up). What I did is when he first started his visitation I printed up a 1 page thing where it said what time he was picking up and dropping off ds, what days, and how long this agreement was going to last. Before he picked up DS for the first time I had him sign it (and I signed it too). I had 2 copies- one for him and one for me. Each time visitation changed I made up a new one (making sure to put the dates in there!) and we both signed them. That way if something happened I had at least a tiny legal leg to stand on.
 

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But as it stands - the police are going to side with the parent who has primary custody if it comes to a "he says, she says" - cause she's got primary.<br>
That is, if they get involved at all.
 

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Wording my lawyer tried (but x wouldn't sign):<br><br>
"If the parties cannot agree on any major parenting decision, they will first seek help through a mediator such as (insert mediator here). If, after two sessions, they still cannot agree, then (me), as primary physical custodian, will make the decision." Or something to that effect.<br><br>
I would definitely suggest some sort of guideline for visits -- you can always change it or be more liberal, but it's good to have those guidelines -- I often "let" x have more time because I have to work, but I don't HAVE to.<br><br>
Also, I've found that although I didn't think there was, it really does help my kids to have a regular visitation schedule when we can arrange it.<br><br>
HTH ...
 

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nak<br><br>
morgainesmama: what verbage did he agree on? i am dealing w/these issues right now. x is 2,000 miles away, has never met ds, only "plans" (says his attorney) on seeing him 4x a year but wants joint legal custody!!! does it seem possible that he could even get it????
 

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peacefulmommy,<br><br>
The distance and very unbalanced visitation were part of the factors considered in giving me impasse decision making power. I'd say that if he's never even met the child, has only a minimal intent on being a part of his life, and lives so far away (so doesn't know schools, etc.) that you'd have a lot of good points to argue on for full legal or impasse. Good luck!
 

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Thanks Jster...I'm hoping that's the case. He's also trying to get me to have to pay 1/2 of all his travel expenses to see ds (I should mention the cs he's paying is based upon him working 30 hrs/wk, not to his fullest ability. that was decided in divorce decree in different state), and trying to get me to change ds' last name from mine to his! argh.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>StephandOwen</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My custody agreement says "visitation as the parties agree" or something to that effect and I don't really like it. But it was done that way because the visits were changing so often (at first it was changing every couple weeks because he started off with 1 hour and was building up). What I did is when he first started his visitation I printed up a 1 page thing where it said what time he was picking up and dropping off ds, what days, and how long this agreement was going to last. Before he picked up DS for the first time I had him sign it (and I signed it too). I had 2 copies- one for him and one for me. Each time visitation changed I made up a new one (making sure to put the dates in there!) and we both signed them. That way if something happened I had at least a tiny legal leg to stand on.</div>
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That is a good idea. You might want to try this AND have the documents notorized, they will be more likely to hold up in court if they are notorized. Then you cannot be accused of forging a signature.
 

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I would go to court and get supervised visitation only. that is what my mother did with us girls.<br><br>
that is also what I am planning on doing with stbx too.
 
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