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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So today a "friend" came over (she has 1 girl) and I was changing Caden's diaper and she said "you DIDN"T circumcize him! He is going to hate you for that!!"....I was just stunned, since first of all, I thought she was very aware of stance on circ'ing, bc I never shut up about it. So I told her that there was no way I was going to perform cosmetic surgery on my 2 day old baby boy so that his penis would look like what I was used to seeing. She again told me he was going to be mighty upset with me when he grew up, and I informed her that if he did decide that he wanted to be circ'ed as an adult, he could very well do it. This was followed by "well that will hurt really bad".

WHAT THE HECK!!!!!!!!! Why is everybody in the world so ignorant!!!! and I have already talked to her about this (I swear I did) so she must have totally ignored me the last time I mentioned it. I just told her it hurts whenever its done and dropped the subject, bc I was getting so pissed. I never will change anyone's mind around here...seriously!! I have only convinced one friend about not circ'ing and she isn't even close to having kids...everyone else listened but still made the "right choice for our family". Blah! Sometimes I feel like I am on the losing side here...and I know its the right side, but its just so hard to deal with day after day, hearing the same idiot comments again and again!

Okay, rant over!! Just needed to get that out.
 

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I know what you mean, its like talking to brick walls. They don't want to listen at all, why would anyone want to change their view point on anything?! Thats how they should look, so lets just fix it now so he doesn't remember the pain, its easier that way and it will be so much easier to care for. AAHHHHH!!!! God forbid we should let the boy make his own choice.
 

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You never know who you reach. They may not agree in the moment, but maybe it starts them thinking, and maybe next time they hear about it again they are a little more open. You are doing the right thing and you might be making more of a difference than you know.
 

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you are not on the losing side...you are on your son's side. The concept of an Intact penis is still fairly new to people in the US. In 50 years it wont be so new to people anymore. We are paving the way for our children and our grandchildren to have a different expierence than we did. Your decision & philosophy will without a doubt influence countless generations to come in your family and in the culture at large. It has taken 100 years for circumcision to take hold of 90% of the culture. It has taken 20 years for it to fall to 55% nationally. Give it some time. By the time we are gramdma's a circ'd baby WILL be in the minority nationally. It's hard to be a trailblazer I know, but you have all of us on your side and the babies too.
 

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I'm sorry, I am so, so sorry.

I know how you feel, I am right there in the trenches with you. All I can say is that when our kids are in the locker room there's gonna be an awful lot of talk about whose missing their foreskin. And those parents are gonna have to come up with answers. Because the tide is changing, and you are a part of that.

You should be proud.
 

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No wonder you had to post!!! I never thought to say that ds could choose circ when he was older..good point..Actaully my close friends husband was telling us a story about how he is intact and recently had an issuse down there...he had the choice of getting circd at age 22 and said NO THANKS!!!!


On the pain thing-
There was something on TV about how you have to get your son circed before they are 4 days old
: because after that the dr gives anesthesia! I guess babies feel no pain until 4 days old..who comes up with this stuff!

I am beggining to realize that many people don't like to think about what they do and just follow along with the crowd.....I never researched circ though because my mom did not circ my brothers and when people commented on that she would tell them it was equivelent to child abuse. Go mom!

Jennifer
 

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Now see, I am praying for someone to say something so blatantly stupid & offensive so I can just GO OFF
.

My luck it'll be someone that that would be the social kiss of death to, like a neighbor or relative or something. I'm sure I'd be polite(ish), but I'm also sure I couldn't hide my horror & disgust while doing so.
 

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Melissa,

You and your son are winners because you decided to let your son have his whole body and your a winner because you stand up to family and society pressure .

I think if ppl realized how truly a child hurt with pain even with local afterwards they are forgetting about afterwards when most child doesn't get any pain medcine for about 7 days -ten of healing process plus the risk of hidden complications that the doctors don't even talk about including death and that is unneccessary elective cosmetic surgery .

I know my son's generation will be changed because hopefully he will see how I saved him and his future son's from scary circumcision . Plus , hopefully when more foreskin is there and parents are saying no to 'cut happy doctors' they are going to have to 'really research more on foreskin'.

Find the truth to make the world a better place for others than just themselves.
 

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When people tell me that he will resent me for not cutting his body I reply: "If he ever expresses concern and I can afford it I will gladly pay for this cosmetic procedure when he is 18 and can make his own decision."

Its a lot easier to reverse the decision to leave something alone than it is to reverse the decision to cut something off.
 

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I am so sorry, what an awful thing she said to you.

I know people often say: "If he wants to he can have it done when he is an adult." And I agree, this works and makes sense with people who are just sure any intact boy will be traumatized, ashamed and teased. Considering that's what they think, it's a reasonable response.

But maybe we could formulate something even better. Because saying "he can have it done as an adult" minimizes the foreskin, puts it as less-important than other body parts. Like it's optional, instead of standard. If I ever hear that, I'm going to say "Not my son. He'll be raised with pride in his body, knowing he is whole! He can get a nose job or pec implants or any cosmetic surgery he wants when he grows up, but I can assure you he'll be proud to be intact."

Of course an adult can choose to be circumcised, but I think by only saying "Well, he can do it if he wants" and leaving it at that, we're almost admitting that there might have been an error in leaving him intact, kwim?

I mean, what if my daughter is pissed that she gets my hips or my butt? She probably will, cause it's been passed down for generations! I'm not going to say "I'm so sorry honey, it's my fault that you look that way, I'll pay for liposuction!" Having my hips would be as natural as being born with a foreskin.

I don't feel I'm explaining what I mean well; I do fine with facts but when it comes to any real writing I am hopeless.
Maybe if someone gets what I mean they could explain it better?
 

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I agree with the PP who said that you and your ds are winners because you left him intact. Good for you!

Do you by any chance live in the Midwest? If so, I feel for you, because I live where the circ. rate is 84%, and I feel like I can't get through to people, either.

Keep talking about it, though. Who knows? You may not get through the first time, but you might the third or fourth time.
 

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Quote:
Of course an adult can choose to be circumcised, but I think by only saying "Well, he can do it if he wants" and leaving it at that, we're almost admitting that there might have been an error in leaving him intact, kwim?

I don't feel I'm explaining what I mean well; I do fine with facts but when it comes to any real writing I am hopeless. Maybe if someone gets what I mean they could explain it better?
Kristi-

you said it perfectly! It is an excellent point too!
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lula's Mom
But maybe we could formulate something even better. Because saying "he can have it done as an adult" minimizes the foreskin, puts it as less-important than other body parts. Like it's optional, instead of standard.
you make some very good points. Sometimes I phrase it as "If he wants a circ or a nose job (My family is "blessed" with big noses) when he gets older I will try to pay for it for him.)

But I agree I should watch my language and make sure I phrase it so it sounds as rediculious to a pro-circ person as it does to me. It is supposed to be an obvious empty threat because everyone knows most grown men would not submit to something like that.
 

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That's it, Shaggydaddy, that's what I was trying to say!
I knew y'all would get it. To us it is an obviously empty threat, a silly thing to even suggest, so sure, whatever, he can have it done.

But those people are coming at it from the opposite view, that the boy-man will be as repulsed by his own foreskin as they are. So when we say that, obviously expecting our sons would never want to be circ'ed, those people hear "Well, as a consolation, he'll be able to have it cut off after he is out from under my insane iron rule!" And they picture your son running to the nearest surgeon when he turns 18. They don't really consider that the boy-man will be happy he's whole, and I think they need to have that explained to them.

And yeah, as a disclaimer, I know there is some slight possibilty that no matter what I tell my boy, he may decide he prefers himself to be circumcised. Or rhinoplastied, because he has his father's large (and handsome) nose. But I'm sure not going to present either one as a favorable option to him myself!
 

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I know it's very hard to come up w/ something on the spot, but keep this in the back of your head to the ignorant remark:

(the ridiculous "he's going to hate you" crap):

* "Well, tell that that to the circumcised men who have killed themselves because they felt so horribly violated (and didn't know about foreskin restoration)!"

* "Well, if you want him to risk possible penis amputation, you'll have to wait until he's 18 and can decide for himself what happens to his own body (I don't think he'll care what you think by that age, though)!"
 

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By protecting your son against this sad and horrific practice, which does permenantly disfigure children and subject them to extreme and traumatic pain and agony, you have done the right thing.

He will be able to grow up with a whole and intact body, because you chose to protect his human rights as a person. I know people, do not listen at times. I have talked to other people about this topic, and some refuse to speak to me about it or discuss it with me, or act as though I am intruding into what should be "their" decision. I dont think it should be their decision to amputate healthy parts of their childs body. If someone held down an adult and without their consent started cutting off parts of their body, the perpetuator would be charged with a crime. Yet, we allow this very thing to be done to children, and some people seem to think its ok to mutilate and assault the body of a child.

I am circumcised, and i am VERY unhappy and upset about it. I hate it and wish it had never been done to me. I think the chance is far greater that your child will be happy that you left him intact instead of being genitally mutilated and having his body cut up without his consent. I dont have any freedom to get what I have lost back.

I know, from personal experience, that circumcision is a terribly cruel, disfiguring, harmful and traumatic practice. I am a victim of it, it was inflicted on me as an infant. Just learning that a part of my body, the most intimate part and most sensitive part, had been amputated, HURT me very badly. I have been very distraught and upset about and have cried about it. I have also experienced negative psychological effects which seem to be related to circumcision have and have actual memory of it.

I first heard about circumcision when I was 11 or so. I assumed when I had heard about it, that my parents would not have allowed such a thing to happen to me. I felt right away this was a wrong and an evil practice, and was and am appalled and dismayed that such a thing would be done to children. I finally found out the ugly truth months later, when doing more reading about it. The notion that someone had stolen this very private part of my body and mutilated it was shocking to me, I was devasted, it was like getting hit by a tonne of bricks. I still cry about it to this day. The body is sacred, and a person has a basic right to a whole body, and to not have parts of it cut off without their consent, or without an actual, present and current medical condition that severely threatens the health of the child and when there is no lesser invasive option available. Amputation of body parts must ONLY be a last option, to treat a truly severe present abnormal verifiable medical condition. The foreskinis not a disease but a totally normal and healthy part of the body. The body is normally in a healthy state, and does not need parts of it amputated that are healthy. All children are not born with a defective body, most are born with healthy bodies and do not need parts amputated from then. I am appalled at how paediatricians, some of them, in the US try to push this horrific and disfiguring procedure that destroys most of a mans sensitivity on vulnerable and defenceless children, when there are less invasive options avialable, and in most cases, any problem can be fixed without circumcision. It seems as though the medical profession tries to find any excuse it can to mutilate children, as if they actually want to cause the child a life of sensory deprivation and lost pleasure and joy, and even psychological harm and unpleasant memories, and want to torture and traumatise the child.

Since I was 7 or 8 (years before I knew what circumcision was), I seemed to have memories of circumcision itself, which include my arms and legs being unable to move, since they were strapped to a plastic restraining device. This comes with accompanying emotions and feelings that I find difficult to put into words, they are so extreme. it is a feeling of helplessness, mutilation, violation, suffering, I also get a choking and gasping for air sensation along with this. It is indescribable feeling of raw and brutal suffering. It is a terribly painful and traumatic experience, with pain like this, it fills your entire existance. It makes me very upset that children today are STILL being subjected to this torture! It is a terrible feeling, that ones human rights as a person have been ignored, as if one is not a person, it is very dehumanising. It makes one feel as though your feelings, comfort, human rights, dignity, and emotions have been ignored, disregarded and shown indifference. It must be a lot like a feeling of rape, even worse, since the most sensitive part of my body has been destroyed, stolen from me. It feels as though my human rights have been tossed into the garbage along with the most pleasure sensitive part of my body, a part I will never know and feelings I will never experience.

Prior to learning about circumcision at 11, I had a sense of mutilation, resentment and betrayal, which must have been coming from this deeply buried trauma from the event. I felt this against my parents, as if they had allowed something to happen to me. I knew that something had happened to me, that some terrible wrong or evil had been done to me, but I was not quite sure what it was. After I found out about what had happened to me, it all makes sense now. I also noticed, before I was 11, and thus this seems to show an authentic knowledge of the loss of sensory pleasure seperate from knowing about circumcision consciously (although I had massive subconscious and conscious awareness that something had happened, obviously, I just didnt know exactly what it was) and a pre-existing awareness or expectation of a certain level of pleasure, i seemed to notice that there was far less pleasure there and for some reason I was missing something. I became very frustrated, as there was some sort of apex of pleasure and joy, and the expectation to feel it, yet, it was not there. It was as if there was something beautiful and wonderous, that I was expecting, and all I got was, nothing. I cannot find words to describe the sense of frustration and even agony this caused. This for me, tosses the notion "they wont know what they are missing" into the garbage. I have felt defective in some way, before I knew what I was missing. Today, I still know that I should be able to reach some sort of level of pleasure, but can never get there. There does seem to be some sort of spiritual or psychological need for this pleasure, and when it is not there, it seems all sorts of things may go wrong psychologically. it is a terrible form of sensory deprivation, and a sensory castration, is what it is. I became very frustrated, and even depressed about it. Today I have very little senstitivity at all left, this is depressing to me.

I cannot stand the knowledge that today, innocent, defenceless and helpless infants still are being subjected to this violent mutilation, assault, torture and massive suffering that I was subjected to. I hope that people will wake up and finally realise that it is perverted, barbaric, cruel and brutal to mutilate the bodies of children.

You have made the right decision by allowing your child to remain intact and to keep his whole, natural body. He most likely, will be glad that you did. I wish I had been allowed to keep mine. There is no way now for the damage to me to be undone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks all! I totally get what you are saying about not emphasizing he can do it when he gets older (bc I totally don't think that is a choice he would ever want to make anyways). I was just so out of sorts bc of the way she came out and told me so vehemently how my son would hate me (and I know that is not true at all of course, but this is supposed to be one of my better friends). Circ. sure brings out the ugliness in people. If she ever has any more children, I will surely be bombarding her with more info on the evils of circ. but I don't get a very good feeling that she will even read or listen to any of it. Its just frustruating!
 
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