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How many of you mamas have actually seen the devastating effects of some of the diseases vaccines were created to "cure"?<br><br>
How many of you have actually seen effects from the vaccines themselves?<br><br>
I am currently a Vax-ing mama, I had all my immunizations (twice!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">), but my cousins aren't vaxed, so I like to think I am not a blind sheep, not even knowing that it's an option.<br><br>
Anyway. I lived in Romania for four months, and while there I saw some of the horrifying and devastating effects of diseases such as polio, meningitis, whooping cough, et cetera. Those diseases scare the pants off of me. I have seen what it is like, and I have seen the devastation caused in a country where the disease have not been contained.<br><br>
On the other hand....I also admit that there are consequences to vaccinating. For example, I was more then a little disturbed when I asked my ped why the polio vaccine was no longer oral, and she replied, "it caused kids to get polio" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"> (This particular vaccine I had THREE series of.......)<br><br>
My gut and heart tell me that the diseases are worse then the vaccines, but the numbers tell me I shouldn't worry about them here in the U.S. so I am more then a little torn about this.
 

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remember that in Romania what you were seeing was also not westernized medical care for such diseases as pertussis. i have seen the cp, measles and pertussis, in america, with good medical care, while definitely uncomfortable and sometimes painful, they were managed well and left no long lasting effects.<br>
i will not vax my kids. i have seen the effects of vaccines, in my first born who has gut imbalance, eczema, and asthma.<br>
no one in my family will ever get a vaccine again. not worth it to poison my kids.
 

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I have seen in my own extended family ... Mumps, measles, chicken pox whooping cough and chicken pox. Everyone did well and only my cousins ds was even hospitalized but he was 3 months old and was in the hospital for 7 days. Everyone who had the diseases were vaccinated but recovered 100%
 

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I have actually seen chicken pox, whooping cough, and meningitis. I know someone who had tetanus and fully recovered (although the story is very scary to me...this person does not regret not vaxing). I don’t have to look far to see vax reactions all around me including in my own family.<br><br>
I try to take the fear out of it when thinking about vaccines. Yes, polio is scary and I would never wish it on anyone however, 95% of cases are asymptomatic. Of the 5% who show symptoms, only 1% of those have permanent paralysis or death. We have not had a case in the US in over 30 years so IF my son EVER came into contact with polio, he has a very good chance of either not knowing he had it, or recovering fully.<br><br>
I have also researched treatment of the diseases in case DS ever got them. I know how to treat measles and I’m not all that scared about it. Mumps and rubella do not scare me at all. Diptheria is scary but again…no cases in the US and if DS ever did get it, it’s treatable in the hospital. Meningitis is the least of my worries because IMO the vaccine does not work at all. Whooping cough is still a concern for me since DS is only 6 months but the vaccine isn’t effective either. I think some reports say the efficacy is as low as 35%. Tetanus is more of a danger to adults over the age of 60 with poor circulation.<br><br>
It’s a personal choice and obviously seeing the diseases first hand would leave an impression in your mind but if you take the fear out and try to think logically about both sides, you should be able to come to a logical solution that you are happy with!
 

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I was vaxxed and had whooping cough. I also apparently had rubella as a baby (unless my mom misdiagnosed roseola which is possible).<br><br>
My sister and I both had chickenpox (hers was the worst case the dr had ever seen...in her throat, ears, eyelids, etc) but it wasn't a miserable experience. We actually got popsicles and LOADS of books, etc!!<br><br>
My sister got the measles...I didn't.
 

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Read my siggy.<br><br><br>
We have a couple of posters who grew up before the MMR, etc. My own mother said that everyone she knew got the measle, mumps, and rubella and did not suffer any after affects. She also had paralytic polio as a child and later became a competitive figure skater.<br><br>
Ds and I had whooping cough; both of us were currently vaccinated. I forgot, I also had chicken pox (forgot that is a VAD now).<br><br>
The chance of suffering short term or long term reactions from vaccination are greater than suffering moderate or severe complications from VADs. VADs can be treated, vaccine reactions...not so much.<br><br>
The affects of most VADs are mitigated by good sanitation, hygiene, a well fed well rested "host", and avoiding inappropriate treatment (like aspirin for measles).<br><b><br>
Tetanus</b><br><br>
In the United States, tetanus is primarily a disease of older adults. Persons greater than or equal to 50 years of age now account for over 70% of reported cases. An average of 43 people per year contract Tetanus and there are 0-2 deaths out of a population of 301,139,947 in the US. (<span style="font-family:Arial;"><span style="font-size:small;">(FEMA) estimates there are 200 deaths and 750 severe injuries from lightning each year in the U.S.</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial;"><span style="font-size:small;">).</span></span> A Tetanus vax is supposed to be a booster to those current on vax and TIG (tetanus immunoglobulin) is for the unvaxed.<br><br>
It is not the rust that causes tetanus, so a rusty nail in and of itself is not the issue. Tetanus needs an anaerobic environment to thrive. A wound that has bled is not typically that environment. Keep it clean and covered.<br><br><span style="font-size:small;"><b>Caring for a puncture wound</b><br>
Several times a day for four or five days, soak the wound in warm water. Use a bathtub or basin if the wound is on the foot or leg. Soaking helps clean the wound from the inside out.<br><br>
Monitor carefully for signs of infection. Because puncture wounds go deep, an infection may not become visible for several days after the injury.<br><br><b>When to seek immediate medical help</b><br>
When the wound becomes infected. Signs of infection include pus, increased pain, swelling, redness, tenderness, a sensation of warmth or visible redness radiating from the wound, or a fever of 100 degrees F or more.</span><br><br><br><b>Meningitis</b><br><br>
Meningitis is an infection that causes inflammation of the membranes covering the brain and spinal cord. Non-bacterial meningitis is often referred to as "aseptic meningitis."<br><br>
The most common causes of meningitis are viral infections that usually resolve without treatment. However, bacterial infections of the meninges are extremely serious illnesses, and may result in death or brain damage even if treated.<br><br>
Meningitis is also caused by fungi, chemical irritation, drug allergies, and tumors.
<blockquote>
<ul><li>Bacterial meningitis is most commonly caused by one of three types of bacteria: <i>Haemophilus influenzae</i> type b, <i>Neisseria meningitidis</i>, and <i>Streptococcus pneumoniae</i> bacteria.</li>
<li>The bacteria are spread by direct close contact with the discharges from the nose or throat of an infected person.</li>
<li>Bacterial meningitis can be treated with antibiotics.</li>
<li>Prevention depends on use of vaccines, rapid diagnosis, and prompt treatment of close personal contacts.</li>
</ul><p>
Bacterial meningitis is a serious infection of the fluid in the spinal cord and the fluid that surrounds the brain.<br></p></blockquote><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>What is bacterial meningitis?</b></span><br>
Meningitis is an infection of the fluid in the spinal cord and the fluid that surrounds the brain. Meningitis is usually caused by an infection with a virus or a bacterium. Knowing whether meningitis is caused by a virus or a bacterium is important because of differences in the seriousness of the illness and the treatment needed.<br>
VIRAL MENINGITIS is usually relatively mild. It clears up within a week or two without specific treatment. Viral meningitis is also called aseptic meningitis.<br>
BACTERIAL MENINGITIS is much more serious. It can cause severe disease that can result in brain damage and even death.<br><br><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>What bacteria cause bacterial meningitis?</b></span><br>
Bacterial meningitis is most commonly caused by one of three types of bacteria: <i>Haemophilus influenzae</i> type b (Hib), <i>Neisseria meningitidis</i>, and <i>Streptococcus pneumoniae</i>.<br><br><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>Where is bacterial meningitis found?</b></span><br>
Bacterial meningitis is found worldwide. The bacteria <b>often live harmlessly in a person's mouth and throat</b>. In <b>rare instances,</b> however, they can break through the body's immune defenses and travel to the fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord. There they begin to multiply quickly. Soon, the thin membrane that covers the brain and spinal cord (meninges) becomes swollen and inflamed, leading to the classic symptoms of meningitis.<br><br><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>How do people get bacterial meningitis?</b></span><br>
The bacteria are spread by direct close contact with the discharges from the nose or throat of an infected person. Fortunately, <b>none of the bacteria that cause meningitis are very contagious</b>, and they are <b>not spread by casual contact or by simply breathing the air where a person with meningitis has been.</b> (So 'just living in the doormrooms is not enough).<br><br><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>What are the signs and symptoms of bacterial meningitis?</b></span><br>
In persons over age 2, common symptoms are high fever, headache, and stiff neck. These symptoms can develop over several hours, or they may take 1 to 2 days. Other symptoms can include nausea, vomiting, sensitivity to light, confusion, and sleepiness. In advanced disease, bruises develop under the skin and spread quickly.<br>
In newborns and infants, the typical symptoms of fever, headache, and neck stiffness may be hard to detect. Other signs in babies might be inactivity, irritability, vomiting, and poor feeding.<br>
As the disease progresses, patients of any age can have seizures.<br><br><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>Who is at risk for bacterial meningitis?</b></span><br>
Anyone can get bacterial meningitis, but it is <b>most common in infants and children</b> (not college students). People who have had close or prolonged contact with a patient with meningitis caused by Neisseria meningitidis or Hib can also be at increased risk. This includes people in the same household or day-care center, or anyone with direct contact with discharges from a meningitis patient's mouth or nose.<br><br><span style="font-family:Arial;"><b>How common is bacterial meningitis?</b></span><br>
In the United States, <b>bacterial meningitis is relatively rare</b> and usually occurs in isolated cases. <b>Clusters</b> <b>of more than a few cases are uncommon.</b><br><br><br>
Most people with viral meningitis usually start getting better within 3 days of feeling sick and recover within 2 weeks. Bacterial or severe viral meningitis may require treatment in a hospital, including:
<ul><li>Antibiotics: Antibiotics are given only when bacteria are causing the infection.</li>
<li>If meningitis is causing pressure within the brain, corticosteroid medicines such as dexamethasone may be given to adults or children.</li>
<li>Measures to reduce fever.</li>
<li>Measures to prevent seizures.</li>
<li>Oxygen therapy.</li>
<li>Monitoring fluids. Liquids are given into a vein (IV) if you have an infection and are vomiting or are not able to drink enough.</li>
<li>Monitoring blood chemicals. Frequent blood tests are done to measure essential body chemicals, such as sodium and sugar in the blood.</li>
</ul>
A person who has severe meningitis may need to be treated in the intensive care unit (ICU) of a hospital.
Here is the information on the Switzerland <b>Measles</b> outbreak:<br><br><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2007/070726.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2007/070726.asp</a><br><br>
483 cases total.<br><br>
Quote:<br><span style="font-size:xx-small;">Six percent of the 445 cases for whom a detailed questionnaire had been submitted were vaccinated against measles (18 with one dose and nine with two doses), 87% were unvaccinated, and the vaccination status of the remaining 7% was unknown. There were 43 cases (10%) requiring hospitalization. Among 445 cases for whom information about complications was available, four cases were reported with encephalitis (1%), all among children, 29 cases with pneumonia (7%, median age 10 years), and 31 cases with otitis media [earache](7%). No deaths were reported.<br><br>
Huge outbreak of measles in one of the cleanest, healthiest countries in the world!<br></span>
 

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YOur info on switzerland is not complete. This year alone so far, as of february, there have been more than 300 cases. in 2007, there were more than 1000 cases. This has been going on since 2006:<br><br><a href="http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news_digest/Measles_continues_its_forward_march.html?siteSect=104&sid=8780994&cKey=1203963529000&ty=nd" target="_blank">http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news_dig...63529000&ty=nd</a>
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>carriebft</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10697709"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">YOur info on switzerland is not complete. This year alone so far, as of february, there have been more than 300 cases. in 2007, there were more than 1000 cases. This has been going on since 2006:<br><br><a href="http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news_digest/Measles_continues_its_forward_march.html?siteSect=104&sid=8780994&cKey=1203963529000&ty=nd" target="_blank">http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/news_dig...63529000&ty=nd</a></div>
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<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> The report I posted is from November 2006 to July 2007, so for that time period it is complete.<br><br>
Though I'm interested in reading more, that article does not provide any detailed information about the cases, just that there are more of them...
 

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<a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edition/v13n08/080221_1.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp</a>
 

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Seen 'em? Hell, I had 'em!<br><br>
Guess that's why I don't fear 'em.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>carriebft</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10697902"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edition/v13n08/080221_1.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp</a></div>
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<br>
I actually just read through that twice before you posted, but don't see information about complications as provided in the first link.
 

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see table under figure 3
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>carriebft</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10697979"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">see table under figure 3</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/duh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="duh"> Ok, so...
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;"><a href="http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edition/v13n08/080221_1.asp" target="_blank">http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp</a><br>
Switzerland Measles Outbreak - From Nov 2006 to Feb 2008:<br><br>
"1405 cases<br>
1319 cases for which detailed information available**<br><br>
Hospitalizations** 104 - 7.9%<br>
Pneumonia** 63 - 4.8%<br>
Otitis Media (ear aches)** 62 - 4.7%<br>
Encephalitis** 6 - 0.5%<br><br>
The proportion of vaccinated patients has been low for all ages (Figure 4). There were 104 cases (8% of 1,319 cases for whom information about hospitalisation and complications were available) who required hospitalisation. Six cases were reported with encephalitis or suspicion of encephalitis (0.5%), all among children. No deaths have been reported." The average age is eleven.</td>
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>suschi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10697932"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Seen 'em? Hell, I had 'em!<br><br>
Guess that's why I don't fear 'em.</div>
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Me too <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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Also interesting to note romania hasn't had a polio case since 1995 (when there were 5)<br><br><br>
But, we are selective and delayed vaxers. But i respect both sides. We do MMR, DTaP, Polio and Hib (and pox if we cant get immunity naturally). Our reasons are mixed from travel to school etcetc, but fear is not a huge one for us.<br><br>
I try to be level headed about my decisions. We recently dealt with rotavirus in both kids, but once I stepped back from the situation, I realized I still did not have enough information on the vaccine to subject the new babe to it.<br><br>
I was one of those few children who suffered major issues with chicken pox (right down to eye problems and limb numbness) and was hospitalized for a while. But, again, my cooler head prevails and I see the benefits in this case to natural immunity.<br><br><br>
I can't judge when one family says "the measles complication rate does not bother me". It's their family, their risk assessment, their situations-- I know nothing about these-- and even if they are relatives or friends, so I know a little, I still cannot completely grasp all of the factors for someone else's family.
 

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Yes, I've seen many. It's not the straightforward cases of measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. that scare me, but the complications of them (which are the ones I tend to see, so my experiences are admittedly somewhat biased).<br><br>
I haven't seen any really serious vaccine reactions-- I've only seen mild fevers. But many people on this forum would label anything happening to a child within weeks of vaxxing a 'vaccine reaction' so it's a little hard to define.<br><br>
But it takes more than anecdotes about the diseases and the vaccines to sway me, and before vaxxing my kidlet I researched the vaxxes and spoke to 3 pediatricians (one of whom also has an M.Sc. in immunology) before making my decision.<br><br>
We vax, but on a slightly modified schedule.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>suschi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10697932"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Seen 'em? Hell, I had 'em!<br><br>
Guess that's why I don't fear 'em.</div>
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<br>
Me too!! Fully vaxed except Cp (didn't have it back them) and still got measles, Mumps, Rubella and CP.<br><br>
Why bother with the poison and the disease?
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>suschi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10697932"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Seen 'em? Hell, I had 'em!<br><br>
Guess that's why I don't fear 'em.</div>
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Same here! And I was born and raised in post-war Europe. But I don't think we were ever as poor as Romanians are. They are by far the poorest people in Europe. Vaccines would not make one bit of a difference. They need food, housing, jobs, some little bits of happiness. Kids are abandoned, how could injecting them with neurotoxins and carcinogens benefit them?
 

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Hepatitis- a friend in high school had it for months<br><br>
Polio- my paternal grandfathers sister died from it, and my maternal grandfather almost did<br><br>
Meningitis- I know a lady who had it a few months ago<br><br>
Measles- grandparents had it<br><br>
Chicken pox- I had it, and everyone I knew had it<br><br>
Mumps- grandparents had it<br><br>
Diptheria- have not seen personally<br><br>
Tetanus- have seen on tv, but that is all<br><br>
Rubella- have not seen, but I am no longer immune to it<br><br>
Whooping cough- I'm immune to it, so apparently I've had it even though I was never diagnosed with it. I also believe my daughter's croup as a baby was WC.<br><br>
Flu- I've had it twice (both those times I had the shot too!) and people in my family have had it<br><br>
Rotavirus- <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> Yeah, I think almost everyone I know has had that<br><br>
What am I leaving out here? I know there's a million on the schedule but I've lost track.<br><br>
I agree with the pp's...it all depends on where you live, how you eat etc. Comparing Romania and US is like comparing panties to boxers.<br><br>
ETA: We stopped vaxing 2 years ago.
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Kimmiepie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702826"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Comparing Romania and US is like comparing panties to boxers.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Isn't that the truth! That is part of what I was asking....the only time I have seen these diseases is in a country with virtually NO decent medical care....so it would be a lot different here in the U.S.<br><br>
I think I will be a lot less freaked out by the diseases if I learn a lot more about how they are treated.<br><br>
Thanks for all your answers, they are definitely giving me things to think about!
 
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