[North_Of_60]

I'm hearing about this book - Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, by Marc Weissbluth, and it seems a lot like Baby Wise. I haven't read it, but from what I hear, I don't know if I want too. It talks about scheduling feedings, not feeding babies as young as 2 or 3 months in the middle of the night, and of course, crying it out, or, as this author puts it - "extinction".

I just don't understand how not feeding a hungry child, and forcing them to sleep when they're not tired, promotes "healthy" sleep habits. I want my daughter to learn that sleeping is a pleasant state to be in, and to not dread bedtime, as I did as a child.

What am I missing? Because according to fans of this book I'm going to have a sleep deprived insomniac of a toddler who has difficulties focusing or socializing.

I don't get it.

 

[momtoNatalee]

I have not heard good things about that book! and I am going to be seeing someone tomorrow who has used that book. God grant me the strength to keep my mouth shut!

 

[JamieCatheryn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by momtoNatalee ... God grant me the strength to keep my mouth shut!

...the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage the change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference...

Obviously working with your child's needs, giving them food when hungry, closeness when lonely, and calming to sleep when tired, works much better. But some kids do get worn down by this training and get more convenient to their parents through it, hence the assumption it works. Not to mention the holdovers from generations where most moms were afraid to spoil their babies.

 

[momtoNatalee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieCatheryn ...the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage the change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference

yes, thanks for finishing

 

[Qestia]

I'd actually seen this book recommended here, and when I read it that just blew my mind. As far as I could tell the author's solution to everything was to put your child to bed earlier at night, and if they didn't like it, let them cry. Or if they're getting up too early--let tham cry.

:

 

[Jazzmin]

I read the book and I did not take away the same feeling you ladies did. He does talk about "extinction", but that is not the only method he advocates. He stresses doing what is right for the family (even co-sleeping), comforting your child (even with the breast), and respecting your childs need for sleep. There are sections in the book that deal with sleep problems and in those sections he talks about extinction as one possible solution. I thought the better parts of the book where the ones that dealt with the neurology of sleep and biological rythms. It gave me more of an insight on sleep patterns in young children. As for his sleep methods, well I wouldn't try CIO because I already have something that works for me

 

[momtoNatalee]

What does he mean by "extinction"?

 

[runes]

a neighbor gave me this book, and although i was horrified by the recommendations that he makes (cio etc), it actually has some interesting information regarding infant sleep physiology. so i just took the information and ap-ified it. it was reassuring to me, for instance, to know that when dd was newborn that they really need to sleep every 2 hours (i was afraid she was sleeping too much back then). it also helped me to structure my days with outings and errands etc. keeping this info in mind.

i would not have purchased this book if it wasn't given to me and overall, i would not recommend it.

 

[henhao]

Jeez Louise, I'm shocked at how many people say this book is no good when they haven't read it.

Read it and then make your decision.

This book has a lot of good info. He gives no-cry, maybe-cry and let cry solutions. Do i want to do CIO? NO. Do I endorse CIO? No.

However, this book taught me to recognize sleepy signals and also taught me about the typical sleep cycle of a baby (when they have 3 naps, 2 naps, 1 nap) and a lot more. I found it very useful.

And the parts I didn't agree with? Well, I just didn't follow that advice.

If you don't want to support the author by buying it, then get it from a friend or the library.

 

[squeakermansmom]

ITA - i read it and even though i think it was poorly written i think it had a ton of great info about sleep physiology. he's not all CIO. and he's not against cosleeping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by henhao Jeez Louise, I'm shocked at how many people say this book is no good when they haven't read it. Read it and then make your decision. This book has a lot of good info. He gives no-cry, maybe-cry and let cry solutions. Do i want to do CIO? NO. Do I endorse CIO? No. However, this book taught me to recognize sleepy signals and also taught me about the typical sleep cycle of a baby (when they have 3 naps, 2 naps, 1 nap) and a lot more. I found it very useful. And the parts I didn't agree with? Well, I just didn't follow that advice. If you don't want to support the author by buying it, then get it from a friend or the library.

 

[dove]

My SIL is a big fan of this book and was trying to get me into his line of thinking. I read it and was disturbed. While the info about the physiology of sleep is interesting, he seems to rely heavily on insisting that an "unhappy" baby is somehow the result of nighttime parenting failure (as in, you just need to stop giving in to those darn nighttime needs already!!!). Everyone that I have talked to that has been a follower/proponent of his ended up doing CIO in the end. While he doesn't say that CIO is the only way, it seems that what he says and suggests eventually leads to parents becoming anaesthetised to their babies' legitimate nighttime needs and they eventually allow CIO. I think he overall erodes a (fatigued, stressed) parents' ability to remember that sometimes as an adult we need to back off from our own needs and attend to our babies physiological and emotional nighttime needs. Parenting does not end at 8 pm and begin at 8 am.

 

[AmieV]

Ditto Jazzmin et al. There are parts that are useful and very helpful, and non CIO. But there are parts that are very disturbing as well (he has no limit on how long you should let a baby cry at night, because supposedly if you cave at 40 minutes, tomorrow night they'll realize they just have to cry for 40 minutes and you'll get them...

: that I don't buy, and it's terrible advice for parents and babies)

The one thing I don't like about it is what dove was saying...there is a lot of crap in there about how you're "damaging" your child if you don't get them to sleep enough, and he even throws out a stat that lack of sleep as a child leads to criminal behavior later in life.

: I was having horrific issues with my DD when she was about 5 or 6 months old, and she DEFINITELY wasn't getting enough sleep but nothing I did was helping (and ultimately nothing did except for time)...so this book made me feel like a bad parent for not wanting to do CIO, and like I was somehow going to hurt her later in life for not "training" her to sleep better. I don't like parenting books that use guilt as a method for selling their ideas. I think as parents we all harbor enough guilt that we don't need anyone else pushing it on us.

 

[henhao]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dove Everyone that I have talked to that has been a follower/proponent of his ended up doing CIO in the end.

Sure, if someone is a "follower" of his, they will do cio; followers follow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dove I think he overall erodes a (fatigued, stressed) parents' ability to remember that sometimes as an adult we need to back off from our own needs and attend to our babies physiological and emotional nighttime needs. Parenting does not end at 8 pm and begin at 8 am.

What I see a lot on this board and others is that a lot of people -- mostly mothers in my experience -- have backed off their needs to the point of desperation. You can just read any of the top 10 posts in the nighttime board here at MDC and see in the title that another mother is claiming to be going crazy because her child doesn't sleep. To be healthy parents, we also have to take our own needs into account. That doesn't mean we have to do cio, of course. I'm using gentle methods to help my baby sleep. I have to sleep, too. I have to be healthy, too. A sick mother -- or one who crashes the car after falling asleep on the way to work -- doesn't do a baby much good.

 

[dove]

well, it's not like I don't know exactly what sleep deprivation is like. I have had jobs where I have been on call 24/7 and I have one of the most high needs children I have ever known. I get it that to be a decent parent, one must sleep, but honestly I get really pissed off when someone who has a baby who gets up *ONCE* in the goshdarn night and whines about it tells me to try CIO, because they're oh so glad they did and now they get a good night's sleep. I don't want to win any martyr contests or anything, but if I can handle what I've been handling, surely a parent with an average-waking child can do it. It's adults who seem to be deciding how often a child should wake, not the babies themselves, and that is what freaks me out. Ok, so he makes some interesting points, but overall, he is a proponent of cio and we shouldn't be going to bat for him, imo.

 

[runes]

ita.

this is mdc, where cio is not acceptable. yes, he may have some good information about baby sleep cycles. however, even if he suggests cosleeping as an option, the fact that he does advocate for cio makes it a no-no for my ap book list.

 

[etoilech]

I thought the book had its good and bad parts. You have to take the good and discard the rest, as with a lot of books. Read it and use your own judgement about whether you like it or not.

 

[sweedma]

There was a long and very cathartic thread awhile back in the Nighttime Parenting section called

Feeling traumatized by "Healthy Sleep Habits"! (VENT)

I don't know how to link to other threads, but you could search on it. Many of us felt similarly traumatized!

 

[lmkirche]

I have read about half of the book and I really liked it. I don't know if I would consider myself a follower of his, but I would never let my baby CIO. I agree with many of the above posts. . .he has lots of good information about sleep. I have used that information and my son has become a great sleeper using only no-cry gentle methods that I have learned about from him - 3 naps a day and wakes 1-2 times at night. When he wakes at night, I feed him and change him, then back to sleep. I have found that sleep begets sleep. If you give a baby the sleep he needs, the baby is happier and sleeps better.

I do agree that since he says CIO is an option, he would not be considered AP. But many educated AP parents can read this book, learn things from it, then toss out the rest. He discusses breastfeeding, co-sleeping, and no-cry sleep solutions. It's the non-educated parents that trust everything doctors say - even CIO - because they think doctors know best. I believe that parents know their child better than anyone. They just need to trust their instincts.

 

[runes]

i guess i have a pie in the sky notion that the whole philosophy of cio needs to be 'extinguished'.

it's a non-negotiable to me. just like no spanking is.

just mho.

 

[dove]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspiration i guess i have a pie in the sky notion that the whole philosophy of cio needs to be 'extinguished'. it's a non-negotiable to me. just like no spanking is. just mho.