[Bearsmama]

Hi everyone. I guess I am just looking for advice and support at this stage, but I needed to post this to see if anyone else's experience is the same.

I should also say that we co-sleep with our 21 mo DS. He is an extremely spirited, challenging, smart, little boy. He also loves to nurse.

He has become very demanding with nursing-especially at night. I cannot move away from him or get into a more comfortable position w/out him getting very upset. So, we decided to try to start setting some nursing limits. Sometimes toward morning, I can say, "We'll nurse when the sun comes up" and he's okay with that.

Last night, however, I decided to try out a few of Jay Gordon's techniques for nightweaning a co-sleeping baby. Well, instead of doing what he suggests, which is to nurse, but not let the child fall asleep at the breast, I decide to see how he'll be if I refuse him, but comfort him (of course) in other ways. I told him that we weren't going to nurse and he had a meltdown! I rubbed his back, tried to snuggle with him, etc. And he just wailed and starting asking for "mommy" even though I was right there. Like he couldn't possibly believe that I was his real mommy refusing him his most favorite thing. Dh tried to comfort him, and he BIT him! After a terrible 5 minutes (yes, only 5 minutes), I gave in. But instead of being his normal snuggly self again, he started to nurse, but didn't come close to me. It literally BROKE MY HEART!

Is this what real nightweaning is all about? After last night I realize that we are not quite ready. Is it this heartbreaking? Am I overreacting? I really thought it was the worst 5 minutes of my life. Are there other options?
TIA for your input.

 

[chie96]

DH and I were totally for 100% child-led weaning. Then I got pg when DD was 20 mos. Two mos later the pain was unbearable and I was exhausted from her nursing 2-3x/night so we decided to nightwean. I'm trying to remember but I believe it was partly Dr. Jay Gordon's advice that we used.

We talked to DD for a few days beforehand that Mama milk was going to be night-night and that when the sun came up she could have more. The first night was awful. She woke and when I tried to hold her and pat her bac, etc. she went ballistic. It broke my heart but I did not nurse - even after a long time spent crying. I was right there with her and kept telling her that she could have more when the sun came up. Finally she seemed to "get it" and said, "Mama milk when sunshine come up, Mama?" and I answered, "Yes, baby...when the sunshine comes up." and she went to sleep.

The next night she cried for about 1/3 the time as the night before and the next night about 1/3 of that. All that time I was right there with her and stroking her and holding her and whatever I could to let her know that I was there for her and that Mama milk had not gone away - it was just night-night. I hated having to night wean but I truthfully couldn't hack it during my 1st trimester.

I guess one has to realize that all this child has known for x-months is that Mama milk is there when h/she needs and wants it and I can imagine it must be awfully upsetting when it's all of a sudden taken away. IMO it is heartbreaking and I would not have done it if there had been a better way for us.

That being said, at 22 mos DD was actually very easy to night wean. We had three "bad" nights out of seven and after that 1st week she was going the entire night w/o nursing for the first time. Now, when she wakes at night if she asks I will nurse. I'd say it happens 2-3x/ month now. If she is sick or teeting or if we have made a trip to see family and are in a strange bed I will nurse. But other than that we are essentially weaned at night.

I hope this has helped somewhat. It's not easy. It can be done. But if you can hang in there I would (IMO only) keep up with the nursing. G/L to you!

 

[beachrock]

Bearsmama, let me first say that I feel for you! And that when you say "we are not quite ready", I think that is a wise thing. You will know when you dc is ready, because even though, as chie96 said, no child willingly gives up night nursing, when they are ready, I think they do give it up without breaking our hearts.

I tried to nw my son just 2 months ago and he was a wreck, screaming, inconsolable, *I* was in tears too

. But the night nursing was truly unbearable (4-5 times a night, every night for 26 months) and I was coming unglued and very short-tempered (dh also).

So this week we tried again, and it's amazing the difference two months can make! The first night DS cried 2 minutes the first waking, fussed and grumped but didn't cry the rest of the night.
Next night, just fussing and grumping. Third night, slept 6 hours, woke once and accepted "we don't nurse at night" without a peep! He just turned over and cuddled in next to me.

All this to say, take heart, Bearsmama! Your time, if not now, may be just a few weeks away.

 

[DaryLLL]

sigh--EVERYTHING is harder with spirited kids. It all takes more time, more patience, more persistence, more repetition, more tears even, on both sides. Because spirited kids are MORE of everything, we need to be too.

Read Raising Your Spirited Child yet?

 

[Bearsmama]

Thank you, thank you all for your responses and encourgement. I know you all are out there, but in the middle of the night when DS is screaming I need to remember it!

chie96-Thanks for the suggestions. Part of the reason we are actually considering weaning is that we are contemplating trying to get pregnant. And thinking about adding another child to this mix of nursing craziness is absolutely frightening. I just want him to understand on some level that we have needs, too. I KNOW that doesn't happen FOREVER, but I think on some level they can get that momma needs to sleep. Dr. Gordon talks about how a well-established personality of a co-sleeping baby can definitely handle trying to understand that he is part of a family. And yes, DC will get mostly everything he wants *almost* all of the time.

Last night was terrible again. It's almost like DS can sense my growing desire to stop nursing at night and to set some limits. I was very angry. And I feel a bit guilty about it. I don't want him to ever associate mama or nursing with resentment. But I have to admit that at this stage I do resent the nighttime nursings. I will keep your success story in mind.

DeidreAlison-Thanks. I know I've heard that a short time waiting can make a big difference. So, I just have to keep it all in perspective. Which is really hard when he's so persistent and almost aggressive about the nighttime stuff. I can totally relate to your "unglued" comment. The past week has been rough, and I've had a few days where I've been very short tempered. And I've had those same exhaustion feelings I had in the first 6 months or so with DS (well, it was about a year or more of being exhausted, but that's a WHOLE other thread). It's so helpful to know that you've been there. And that feeling unglued happens to all of us.

DaryLLL-DS is definitely MORE of everything. And YES, I do own the Spirited Child book. I actually keep it in my bathroom b/c that's the only place I can read. I like what you say about us as parents of these spirited kids WE have to be MORE of everything as well. And I would imagine that the limit setting and sticking to those limits falls into this area, too.

Thank you all. Please keep the advice coming.

 

[luv my 2 sweeties]

Just curious why you decided to skip the first step in Jay Gordon's method? (Nursing at each waking but stopping before the child falls asleep.) It seems like the gradual transition of his method is part of the reason it works for lots of people. Stopping anything cold-turkey is hard for any of us, especially toddlers. If it's still going badly, you might want to consider taking a week or two off, then starting again with all of the steps. Just a suggestion - you have to do what works best for your family!

 

[Bearsmama]

luv my two sweeties-thanks for your reply. I simply forgot about the not letting the child fall asleep at the breast part. Plus, I had all these notions in my head that my DS might be okay with lots of cuddling and encouragement. NOT!! So, it was a stupid move on my part.

I think the above portion of Jay Gordon's method is why it works for most toddlers. I have to re-read the article and get it down pat before we start the process again.

 

[beachrock]

Bearsmama, after I posted to you I thought a lot about what we had done differently the second time. Please see my thread re night weaning for explanation.
I do think it was partly readiness on the part of my son, and partly the words we used.

Good luck!

 

[Dana]

Just wanted to share a sleep-deprived "good luck".... I have a spirited 2.5 year old and I think it was back at 21 months when I first read Pantley's book. None of that worked on Raina... Also, me telling her she can't nurse didn't work either. The ONLY way we've found for me to get any sleep is to let dh sleep with her and me sleep at the other end of the house. Then the next day she'll be super velcro baby, but after a few nights I'm better rested and she slows down on the nightwaking.

I think that for a spirited child you're really going to have to think hard about what might work for him and what you're comfortable with doing. My dd is FINALLY starting to understand a little bit about not waking me up at night, but sometimes she just thinks I'm trying to be funny when I say "Don't wake mommy up."

She now also handles just sleeping with dh better, but the first night she always cries alot with him right there to comfort her. Also, nightweaning doesn't necessarily mean no nightwaking. But, it will get better eventually!

good luck!

 

[TracyK]

Thanks for all the great suggestions mamas! I'm struggling with thoughts of night-weaning my spirited 26 m/o ds. I haven't done too much about it yet though.

A question about Dr. Gordon's method to those who have successfully used it: What do you do when your child gets upset (that's an understatement) if you try to unlatch before they are asleep? I guess I need to re-read the article as well, but I'd love to hear some real stories. I just know my ds, and if I did that he would have a fit.

Thanks to all! THere he is now screaming for mommy, gotta run!

Tracy

 

[luv my 2 sweeties]

Quote:

What do you do when your child gets upset (that's an understatement) if you try to unlatch before they are asleep? I guess I need to re-read the article as well, but I'd love to hear some real stories. I just know my ds, and if I did that he would have a fit.

well.... they have a fit!

Gordon's methods are not for everyone. I believe they are a form of CIO (others may disagree) and for that reason, he strongly cautions against using his method under 1 year of age. He also states that if you do not feel you need to nightwean, don't. In our case, I needed to night wean as it was affecting my daytime parenting negatively, I was becoming resentful of ds's night nursing, and the strain of it all was affecting all of the relationships in the family. Gordon's theory (which makes sense to me) is that a toddler who has been securely co-sleeping may be quite angry about the change in night routine, but s/he will not be scared or emotionally damaged as long as s/he is not abandon to cry alone.

Our experience: When we first tried it, my presence made him crazy! He was so mad!

I didn't want to leave the room however, since that felt to me like a type of abandonment (even though dh was still there). So we took a break for a couple of days then started over with me taking ds out of the room to nurse sitting in a chair. DH came down after 10 minutes or so and took ds back up to bed. Of course we explained to ds what was happening before and during this process. (He was on the young end - about 14 months - but we went on the assumption that he could understand way more than we might think.) Then I stayed downstairs until he was asleep and we repeated the process at the next waking. Lucky for us he woke only once each night on these nights. But he *did* cry -- hard!

It was hard to listen to, but it didn't make me feel *wrong* if you KWIM. I knew he was "only" angry and understandably so. DH would pick him up periodically long enough to calm him down, but not let him go to sleep in his arms. The first two nights were the worst. The third night, he cried for a much shorter time. We kept up the brief nursings longer than Gordon's recommended 3 days. I think we went 5 days. By then he was hardly crying at all (like 30 seconds). When we went to stage 2, (pick up and comfort but no nursing) I just moved out of the bedroom for a few days. It worked great. He may have cried for a few minutes that first night (I don't remember), but nothing too bad. After that it was a breeze as long as I was not in the bed.

: It was a few more days before he was not waking up fully at all and I could move back in. We didn't really even have to do stage 3. He started sleeping through the night in the middle of stage 2. As I said, there were a few nights where he would wake up, sit up, take a drink of water and go back to sleep, but he didn't need any intervention at all on those nights, and soon he was not even waking up fully.

So that's my story from the trenches!

Like I said, it's not for everyone. I think it's great if you can keep up the night nursing. I just couldn't. Hope it helps!

 

[TracyK]

Thanks for sharing your story Stephanie. It's helpful to hear how people actually implement some of the methods we read about. I need to get creative because DH works 2nd or 3rd shift so he can't help me at all with the bedtime routine.

I posted on another thread that a more pressing issue for me is nap nursing. And I think after reading some of the posts and thinking about how I feel that I don't really need to night wean right now (although I wouldn't complain a bit if Jake decided to nw himself!). WHen I get the energy to start this I'm going to try a version of these ideas to resolve the nap nursing issue we have.

Thanks to all!
Tracy