[Beverly]

Our neighbors across the street have two little girls, one a year older than and one a year younger than my daughter, who is 8. Since we moved into this house three years ago, they girls have all played together off and on. I've never really liked the two neighbor girls, partly because they're ill-mannered and don't follow our rules well, and partly because they just rub me the wrong way, I guess.

Anyway, for the past several months, my DD and the older of the two girls have been spending a fair amount of time together, and my dislike of the girl has gotten only more intense. She pressures my DD to do stupid and/or dangerous things and she has encouraged DD to lie to me when she wants to do something that DD knows I wouldn't allow, and I notice a marked "bad attitude" on DD's part when she's spent much time around this girl. A couple of months ago I "grounded" DD from playing with these girls for 2-3 weeks, and after the ban was lifted things seemed to improve for a while.

Lately, though, things (like DD's *very* smart mouth) have gotten worse again, and yesterday after the neighbor girl (NG) went home I noticed some of the things that they had been writing on the chalkboard in the playroom. Most of it had been erased, but I could still read at least two or three nasty things that they had written about "Jane," my 7-year-old niece who is also a neighbor. One of the lines said, "Jane is stupid and ugly," and another said "Jane + 'John* (another neighbor kid) = sex." Needless to say, I was quite angry and asked DD about it. She said that NG had written them and that she didn't know why. I told her it was mean and not at all acceptable and that NG wasn't allowed to play here for the next few days.

This morning NG showed up and I told her that she wasn't allowed to play with DD for a few days because of the meanness and inappropriateness of her behavior. She admitted writing what was on the board and said that DD had also written some of the same things, but that they had erased most of it. NG went home and I asked DD about it. She admitted that she had also written some nasty things, but only because "NG talked her into it." I told her that excuse didn't wash (a conversation we've have before because she has often claimed that NG "forced" her to break rules/lie/etc.).

I'll be the first to admit that DD is pretty weak-willed in the face of peer pressure, so I'm not trying to put all the blame for these kinds of things on NG. Unfortunately, NG's parents are not at all interested in communicating with us about these sorts of things, so there's really no chance that we can resolve these issues in a rational, "grown-up" fashion. What I'm thinking of doing, then, is telling DD that she is not allowed to play with NG at all, both because NG's behavior is not very nice, and because DD's behavior becomes not very nice when they play together. This is somewhat of a hassle because they live just across the street and this is a very small town, but the situation has gotten out of hand.

Am I overreacting or being unreasonable? I don't want to be a dictator mom, but I'm at a loss about what else to do ... any ideas/opinions/advice?

Thanks in advance!

 

[mirthfulmum]

I have been the child that parents told their children not to play with. I had a rebellious streak to me and was not very good at understnding boundries. Mostly I think I was just really sad and lonely and needed some attention.

It only happened to me twice but both times, when my friend would tell me that they weren't allowed to play with me anymore I was so hurt and confused. I felt rejected and worthless.

I can totally empathize with you wanting to keep negative influences away from your children. I have kids too and have a strong desire to ensure that my boys are surrounded with positive messages and positive people.

So comming at it as someone who has been on both sides of this fence, I don't think that telling yur daughter that she can't play with NG any more is the right solution. At the very least you will hurt a child's feelings and have a little girl question her self-worth.

I think that what you are presently doing is the right way to go about it. Use the relationship your daughter has with NG as a life lesson. As your daughter grows older and begins to find her way she will be confronted with many negative influences. I think that if you are able to take the time now and help her learn how to say no and how to choose the path that is right for her in the face of peer pressure she will come out of this a stronger and wiser little girl.

 

[DaisyRose]

Respectfully, mirthful mom, I disagree completely.

I have a similar situation, and I have decided to ban the unpleasant NG from our home. NG's behavior was contagious, and that really bothered me. Daisy would do things she would never, ever have even thought of doing if NG had not been involved.

For example, one time NG convinced Daisy to squeeze all the toothpaste into the sink and then smear it all over the bathroom. I made them clean it up, but I was furious.

I banned them from the bathroom (unless they needed to use it, of course).

The next time NG came over, she took the new toothpaste and squeezed it out all over my bed!

NG slaps, hits, pulls hair, says mean ugly things. And my girls were like strangers when she left. She lives next door, so I can appreciate how difficult it is to deal with this kind of problem.

But I banned her nonetheless. I told her mom "I have a hard time enjoying NG. Some people just clash, and are better off apart" and left it at that.

Daisy and Rose have never asked for NG and seem relieved that I no longer expect them to play with her. That it's okay to avoid her.

I'm sorry NG is such an unpleasant little person, but I see no reason to expose my children to toxic people. It only leads to everyone getting poisoned. Maybe if enought people reject her, her mama will try and get her some help.

 

[Fieryfly]

Very tough situation for everyone. Being close neighbors makes it even harder!

While banning may be the easiest thing to think of, I also try to use these situations as learning tools for my children. As long as you remain in control of the situation between the children, it might work out in a way.

I do allow these types of playmates over, as long as I am able to provide them adequeate supervision and be there to enforce the rules. I know the limits of my own children's leadership with these children, so I let them handle it and then step in when it gets over their head.

My rules include coming over at certain times of the day only, providing appropriate playthings and places for them to play, instructing my children(not the playmates) to ask me if they may play with other things like video games or watch a movie, sometimes planning something that we can all do together like cooking, water balloon fights, painting, helping me with a household project, so that I can befriend the child also. I made a commitment to always enforce the rules, and cancel the playdate when I can't.

Many children have come through our house, and those who truly enjoy my children's friendship will follow the rules, put up with me, and we work on appropriate play together.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

 

[Beverly]

All of your responses so far have been very helpful ... thank you!

With a cooler head I can see that a total ban might not be such a good idea ... I really don't want to hurt NG, who--as I hinted at before--already has "issues" at home. Also, since my DD is so vulnerable to peer pressure, I'm afraid that trying to remove "bad influences" entirely could come back to haunt us one day, as mirthfulmum suggested -- I'd rather that she learn to handle this stuff on her own while I still have a fair amount of oversight/control over the situation.

I think for right now I'll stick with the original "no playing together for a few days" plan while I try to sort my thinking out on a long-term approach.

Thanks again for the help, and I'd love to hear any more stories and experiences that you have to share.

 

[dharmamama]

If it were me, I would allow NG to come over on an extremely limited basis. Maybe 2 hours once a week or something. BUT, I would make certain that I had an activity and a snack ready, and I would be there to supervise THE ENTIRE TIME. No snarky comment or action would go uncorrected.

NG would quickly learn that she can either play by your rules or not play at all. Your girls would learn that you are there for them in a difficult situation, and I think they would also learn compassion and coping skills.

IF things got better, AND your girls wanted to play with NG, you could gradually increase the amount of time she is allowed to visit and the freedom the kids have to "do their own thing" when NG is around. If things got worse again, you could go right back to being on top of them.

I think a 9-year-old is old enough to understand being told something like, "I have noticed that when you and my DD get together, not-so-nice things tend to happen. DD wants to be friends with you, so I want you guys to be friends. However, the meanness has to stop, and here is my plan for making sure it does."

This is all, of course, predicated on the idea that your girls actually WANT to play with NG. If they don't, then you're off the hook!

Namaste!

 

[EnviroBecca]

I think a TEMPORARY ban is a good idea. NG's snarky phase may pass, or DD may learn to stand up against it better. Explain clearly to both DD and NG why you don't like their behavior (sounds like you did this already) and that when they do get together again you expect them to do better.

Here's my experience: When I was 4, I met a girl my age who lived around the block, and we began playing together often. One day I was alone on the back patio (mom inside and checking on me every few minutes) when "Beth" came over, having crawled under the hedges between yards. She enticed me to go w/her to visit the kindly old couple at the far end of the block. My mom of course freaked out when she found that I'd disappeared! I came home to find her describing me to a police officer. When my mom called Beth's, she learned that although Beth was not ALLOWED to wander around by herself, she often did so; Beth's mom thought it was not a big deal because older siblings always managed to find Beth somewhere on the block. I was instructed not to leave our house or yard without permission.

A few months later, I got a headache while at Beth's house, and she gave me some medicine: She climbed up on the kitchen counter, got adult Tylenol from the top shelf, and opened one capsule into a glass of water so I could drink it. No harm done. I mentioned it to my parents because I'd never seen a capsule before and was intrigued. They called Beth's mom, who apologized for not supervising better. I was instructed not to take medicine except from an adult.

A few months after that, Beth showed up at our door while my mom was napping in the bedroom and I was reading in the living room. She invited herself in to play. She suggested finger-painting. Normally finger-painting was done on the kitchen table, but the dining room table had been cleared off for guests the night before and presented such an appealing large surface; it didn't occur to me to take off the tablecloth or be careful of the pale carpet...and when we washed up, we dried our not-quite-clean hands on the white guest towels. Beth went home, and my mom was awakened by Beth's mom calling to complain about the paint on her child's clothes!

I think it was being berated for failing to supervise, by someone whose child was at our house because SHE failed to supervise, that motivated my mom to decide Beth and I should spend some time apart!

It felt like a long time to me, but we were playing together again by the time we started kindergarten, so I guess it was about 6 months. Beth followed the rule and didn't come into our yard or ring our doorbell. I did see her at the playground sometimes, and she'd plaintively ask me why I couldn't play. I found it uncomfortable to explain...but I was grateful for the reprieve because I had found Beth's ideas hard to resist and at the same time felt uneasy about them. My parents had been very understanding about my behavior while still making it clear that it was wrong and had upset them, and even that was enough to make me feel really bad about it. (Such a victory of gentle discipline! Notice how vividly I remember all this 28 years later.) When we got back together, I felt more able to recognize poor judgment and stick up for myself, and Beth had developed an understanding that I was a more "careful" sort of kid than herself and was willing to back off when I didn't want to do something. We were close friends through 5th grade.

Also, it was helpful that my dad often took my brother and me and our friends on Adventures: We'd hike in the woods, wade in the creek, swing on vines, etc. UNDER HIS SUPERVISION. Beth thrived on that! I wonder if there's a way NG's "bad attitude" could be channeled for good? Maybe you could get her involved in something like picking up trash in the park and directing her scorn toward litterbugs?

Good luck!!

 

[Parthenia]

We're dealing with a similar situation. There are several NG's and NB's who like to come over to our house. I either have never met their parents, or the mom doesn't speak to me (I have no idea why, but it's a good excuse for the kids not to come over my house). They roam our street unsupervised, and other neighbors have reported to me that the kids have excessively picked flowers out of gardens. The neighbors recognize that there's little parental supervision, the kids get little adult attention (positive, at least), and there may be other issues of neglect in the households. After a few "last straw" incidents involving stealing dd's stuff, and visitation solely for the purpose of playing with dd's toys and not her, these kids are not allowed in our house. Dd is not allowed to go to their house (they all live in a 4 family down the street) or their yard. When they come over I ask dd if she wants to play with them outside in our yard. That way I can supervise them. Since I don't have contact with the parents, I speak directly to the NK's about their behavior, as do the neighbors. But since I have no relationship with the parents, I've decided the NK's should not be in our house and dd should definitely not be at their house.

DD temporarily banned one of the NG's for being mean to her. NG apologized, but dd knows I have her back if the meanness comes back. I don't really want to ban outright for now, because it the neighborhood adults (including dh and me) try to be positive adult influences on the kids. I just set up boundaries so I'm not babysitting them, and dd isn't suffering just because some other kids need some positive adult interaction.