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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<p>As a gesture of common courtesy<span style="display:none;"> </span>, I told my family and friends that I had my 3 children exposed to chicken pox.  My mom just said, "Oh boy.  I remember when you all had them.  You'll be in for a fun week!"  My sister, who vaccinates for everything said, "Don't bring your kids anywhere near mine."  She has a 3 year old daughter.  I said, "Why not?  I thought you got Ella vaccinated already." She confirmed that then added, "Well, nothing is 100%."</p>
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<p>So I guess my question is why, if she doesn't believe in what she is doing is protecting her child, would she vaccinate.  Of course, I asked her this but it's such a heated topic anyway that she simply said, "I'm just not going to get into it."  I don't tell her she's right or wrong for vaxing.  Ella isn't my child and I certainly don't have any say in how she raises her.  But I just wanted to understand the logic of it.  Even if she WAS vaccintaed, wouldn't you want to maybe expose her anyway to make sure she is in fact, immune?</p>
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<p>Has anyone else run into this?  Do you just nod and smile and avoid a conflict?  How do you handle this?</p>
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<p>Thanks.</p>
 

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<p>Maybe it's along the same line as any other "protective measure"?  I mean, I know my children's carseats are great protection and in the event of a car crash, they would likely not be injured severely.  But, those carseats don't offer 100% protection.  I'm certainly not going to allow someone to drive my car with my kids in it who does not know how to drive a car simply because my kids are protected in their carseats.  While carseats off a good deal of protection against something bad happening, they won't protect 100%, so I do need to remain vigilant.  Likewise, even though my carseats are awesome, I know they aren't 100% effective...however, that doesn't mean that I'll just skip using them because "they don't work".</p>
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<p>Just an analogy that might help. </p>
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<p>Maybe the children are around immune compromised kids?  Maybe her kids (or the parents) have a big thing coming up and they don't want to be sick (the holidays are coming up---what if they have plans they can't cancel or they don't want to risk exposing another child to an illness).  Maybe they just don't want sick kids because being sick stinks.  They know how vaccines work, and they know that in the general course of a day, the children are likely going to be protected, but avoiding known exposure is still a good idea for someone who does not want their children to get sick.</p>
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<p>And I say that as someone who does not do the chicken pox vaccination (but who has an immune compromised child so I do vaccinate my other children for all but live vaccines per their pediatrician, on a delayed and selective schedule).  So, I can see both sides of it...</p>
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<p>As for how to handle it, I'd smile, nod, and then respect her wishes to not be exposed.  I would imagine anyhow that if you are purposely attempting to get your kids an illness that you would also responsibly quarantine them anyhow, so it should totally be a non-issue.  But yeah, obviously you and your other family members don't see eye to eye on it, so definately respect their non-exposure wishes.  Otherwise, you'll just end up looking like an irresponsible individual who not only doesn't vaccinate but purposely exposes other people's children in the eyes of your family members who may be questioning your choices.  So, don't vaccinate since that's your choice, but then respect your family member's wishes for keeping their children safe as well. :)</p>
 

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<p>I think that nod and smile and avoid a conflict is the way to go here.</p>
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<p>I used to have nightmares - honest to god, wake up shaking and sweating nightmares - about my baby getting chicken pox.  It's not that it's that terrible an illness, it's that I would have had to miss so much class that I'd have had to drop out of my grad program, or so much work that I'd be fired.  I was willing to take *any* precaution to avoid it. </p>
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<p>You say that you informed your family as a common courtesy - surely the point of this courtesy is to allow them to avoid exposure if that's what they want to do? </p>
 

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<p><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MeepyCat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16046959"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I think that nod and smile and avoid a conflict is the way to go here.</p>
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<p>You say that you informed your family as a common courtesy - surely the point of this courtesy is to allow them to avoid exposure if that's what they want to do? </p>
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True, though I think the SIL gave the situation an adversarial feel by saying "Don't bring your kids anywhere near mine", instead of "thanks for letting me know".</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>636Jen</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16045375"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>As a gesture of common courtesy<span style="display:none;"> </span>, I told my family and friends that I had my 3 children exposed to chicken pox.  My mom just said, "Oh boy.  I remember when you all had them.  You'll be in for a fun week!"  My sister, who vaccinates for everything said, "Don't bring your kids anywhere near mine."  She has a 3 year old daughter.  I said, "Why not?  I thought you got Ella vaccinated already." She confirmed that then added, "Well, nothing is 100%."</p>
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<p>So I guess my question is why, if she doesn't believe in what she is doing is protecting her child, would she vaccinate.  Of course, I asked her this but it's such a heated topic anyway that she simply said, "I'm just not going to get into it."  I don't tell her she's right or wrong for vaxing.  Ella isn't my child and I certainly don't have any say in how she raises her.  But I just wanted to understand the logic of it.  Even if she WAS vaccintaed, wouldn't you want to maybe expose her anyway to make sure she is in fact, immune?</p>
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<p>Has anyone else run into this?  Do you just nod and smile and avoid a conflict?  How do you handle this?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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I think that she probably knows that vaccines are not 100 percent but she has chosen to get what she feels to be the protection of the vaccine.  I would consider it a common courtesy that people I know not come around my kids if they were recently exposed to any sickness regardless of what their or my vaccine status is.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<p>My thoughts on chicken pox  are that you want to get it when you're a kid and you'd want to make sure you have full immunity....especially if you plan on having kids.  Exposure could be devistating to a fetus if mom is not immune.  If you are of the opinion that vaccines aren't 100%, wouldn't you want to expose a 3 year old to make sure she's immune?  Obviously you wouldn't purposefully get into a car crash to test the safety of your car seat.  Also, being sick does suck.  If someone had the FLU, then yes stay at home and don't expose anyone.  I feel that the chicken pox are different because everyone I know WANTS to be exposed.  My parents don't care if we bring the kids around, just my sister.  I've told all the moms in our neighborhood and they are fine with it because their kids got the vaccine.  Now, if their kid ends up with chicken pox, will they thank me?  I don't know.  Probably not!  *wink*</p>
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<p>My kids are not showing signs after being exposed after a week.  I'm still waiting......</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
<p>Ok right.  But my point is, wouldn't someone want to test the validity of the vaccine by getting exposed to chicken pox?  Does that make sense to anyone besides me?  Because, if the vaccine didn't work, wouldn't you want to know?  If you weren't immune, wouldn't you want to know before becoming an adult.....an adult that will be pregnant some day?   *shrug*  I know it's her choice.  I'm trying to find the logic in that choice from others who have made that choice.  I'm just trying to understand it.</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>636Jen</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16049012"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>But my point is, wouldn't someone want to test the validity of the vaccine by getting exposed to chicken pox?</p>
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Just as not all exposed, unvaccinated kids contract chicken pox, such a "test" cannot demonstrate immunity. Its only "positive" outcome is actually contracting chicken pox, which is presumably what a vaccinating parent is trying to avoid in the first place. From this perspective, it's pointless.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>636Jen</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16049012"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Ok right.  But my point is, wouldn't someone want to test the validity of the vaccine by getting exposed to chicken pox?  Does that make sense to anyone besides me?  Because, if the vaccine didn't work, wouldn't you want to know?  If you weren't immune, wouldn't you want to know before becoming an adult.....an adult that will be pregnant some day?   *shrug*  I know it's her choice.  I'm trying to find the logic in that choice from others who have made that choice.  I'm just trying to understand it.</p>
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My husband has never had chicken pox.  He's had the vaccine, but it's not as effective, and chicken pox in adults is very bad.  So if our kids got chicken pox, he'd have to go stay somewhere else until they were non-contagious (or, more likely, he'd get sick too, because you're contagious before you're symptomatic), and it would be all me.  Taking care of two sick kids.  And time off work (I get six sick days a year - this would kill them all and then some).</p>
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<p>Did I mention that, until quite recently, my husband was a contractor who got *no* paid sick time?  Aside from the illness itself, and the costs of whatever medical treatment he'd need, we'd be out a pretty substantial amount of money if he couldn't work for a week or two.</p>
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<p>I am not interested in experiments that won't necessarily give me informative results (as this one won't - see Otto's post).  I am interested in keeping my family healthy.  No chicken pox for us, thanks.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>636Jen</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16049012"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Ok right.  But my point is, wouldn't someone want to test the validity of the vaccine by getting exposed to chicken pox?  Does that make sense to anyone besides me?  Because, if the vaccine didn't work, wouldn't you want to know?  If you weren't immune, wouldn't you want to know before becoming an adult.....an adult that will be pregnant some day?   *shrug*  I know it's her choice.  I'm trying to find the logic in that choice from others who have made that choice.  I'm just trying to understand it.</p>
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My oldest never go the vax, she got the pox instead.  However, I don't go around testing her immunity by regularly exposing her to it.  Natural immunity is not 100% either.<br>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>636Jen</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16049012"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Ok right.  But my point is, wouldn't someone want to test the validity of the vaccine by getting exposed to chicken pox?  Does that make sense to anyone besides me?  Because, if the vaccine didn't work, wouldn't you want to know?  If you weren't immune, wouldn't you want to know before becoming an adult.....an adult that will be pregnant some day?   *shrug*  I know it's her choice.  I'm trying to find the logic in that choice from others who have made that choice.  I'm just trying to understand it.</p>
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Oh goodness, I doubt it.  I mean, NO vaccine is 100% effective.  If you get the polio vaccine for your child, I'd imagine that you wouldn't purposely expose your child to polio just to make sure the vaccine worked, would you?  I doubt in the time of smallpox that people purposely exposed their children to smallpox after being vaccinated "just to test".  I mean, she *knows* the vaccine is not 100% effective--therefore, she wants to continue to take precautions.  While chicken pox CAN be a mild illness, it's not always.  And for some families, there are medical and financial repurcussions to an illness like chicken pox. </p>
 

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<p><br>
 </p>
<p> </p>
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<div> My thoughts on chicken pox  are that you want to get it when you're a kid and you'd want to make sure you have full immunity....especially if you plan on having kids.  Exposure could be devistating to a fetus if mom is not immune<span style="display:none;"> </span></div>
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<p>Maybe your sister is exposed to pregnant women and she doesn't know their immunity status, and therefore does not want to accidentally risk the life of the unborn child?  Just as I would hope, as a DEM, you are avoiding seeing clients during the incubation period so that you don't unwillingly transmit the virus to a pregnant woman who does not have immunity (YOU might be immune, but you can still transmit the virus to pregnant women and their unborn children.)</p>
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<div>  I feel that the chicken pox are different because everyone I know WANTS to be exposed.</div>
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<p>Everyone you KNOW wants to be exposed (except your sister), but not everyone you come in contact with WANTS to be exposed.  If you gave my immune compromised child chicken pox because you willingly went out in public after willingly exposing your child, I would be out for blood.  I don't want to her to be exposed until she is at least 2 years old, per her pediatrician, due to the fact that it could KILL her now.  So, if you are going to expose your child to an illness on purpose, be responsible and quarantine yourself for the entire incubation period (which is like a MONTH for chicken pox).  Just because you think everyone wants to be exposed doesn't mean they DO.  I'd love for my older children to get natural immunity, but it has to wait until it is safe for their baby sister.  Natural immunity isn't worth dying for.  If exposing your children is something you want to do, then by all means, that's your choice.  But anyone who purposely exposes their children to diseases NEEDS to be responsible about it.  Know the FACTS about the incubation period and stay in quarantine so that you don't accidentally kill another person's child...some of us depend on herd immunity because our child(ren) can't be vaccinated due to immune deficiencies.  We certainly don't want to be exposed.  So, you have the right to make the choice for YOUR family, but you don't have the right to make it for mine.  Part of exempting yourself from vaccines is being responsible about it.<br>
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<div> My kids are not showing signs after being exposed after a week.  I'm still waiting......</div>
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<p>The incubation period is a lot longer than 1 week.  You still could be contagious, and you still could be infecting other people unwillingly if you continue to go out in public.</p>
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<p>My child took exactly 2 weeks to show pox after exposure.</p>
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<p>My first thought with your sister is that she disagrees with your decision and she is also afraid of her children possibly getting sick.  Her saying "keep your children away from mine" is a way for her to show her disapproval.  I wouldn't take it personally.  I think most people are scared of germs, even if they've been vaccinated.  I know that I never go to the store without cleaning my cart with those wipes.  I don't go to places where children gather during cold/rainy weather (which is often in Seattle.) I'm not even much of a germaphobe.</p>
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<p>So, there's no real reason for her to say that, I'm sure it just came out in response to her fear of disease.  I doubt she took the time to really think about it other than thinking "Chicken pox!  eww, stay away!"  and she may have some underlying frustration that you do not see things in the same way as she does....as you have with her.</p>
 

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<p>Ally Rae, I certainly hope you advocate quarantine as strongly to every mother whose 5 year old is jabbed with the varicella vaccine to make sure they aren't endangering the immuno-compromised or pregnant woman.  (Of course, before the vaccine, 93% of adults had actual immunity, so there were very few who had to worry at all).  From the VARIVAX vaccine insert: </p>
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<div>Therefore, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, whenever possible, close association with</div>
<div>susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks.</div>
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<p>  I'm surprised to hear some of the folks on the "I'M NOT VACCINATING" forum feel its only acceptable to shed illness if you are following the vaccine schedule.</p>
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<p>and op - I wouldn't sweat it.  respect her wishes and if you want to be snarky, make sure to ask her to return the courtesy when she and her family have flumist blown up their noses.</p>
 

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<p>Exposure doesn't mean you will get CP anyway, my kid was exposed and never got it. My mom has had CP twice ironically.</p>
 

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<p><br><br>
I sure do...everyone we know knows darn well that if they've been exposed to an illness or if they've had a live vaccine within the past 45 days, they do NOT go near my child.  Our pediatrician even knows that and makes sure our little one is in isolation during her entire visit so she is nowhere near newly vaxed children.  Yes, ANYONE who willingly is in a position to spread a disease that could kill someone should not be around others.  And when we do have to cross that bridge with our own children (vax or exposure...we were hoping for exposure, but then I had my IC child so we couldn't expose my older two...so now I have to decide between vax and exposure, and our ped wants us to wait another 6 months-1 year to decide because either way our youngest has to be strong enough to fight the germs, whether it be natural or vaccine shedding...)</p>
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<p>And I might be missing something--I didn't read anyone saying that it's acceptable to shed illness after vaccination.  I personally said you can make whatever choice for your children that you want, but you need to be responsible.  In fact, I wish more doctors emphasized that you can shed virus and get IC people ill after the chickenpox and MMR vaccines instead of ignoring that little point.</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>13Sandals</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16050741"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Ally Rae, I certainly hope you advocate quarantine as strongly to every mother whose 5 year old is jabbed with the varicella vaccine to make sure they aren't endangering the immuno-compromised or pregnant woman.  (Of course, before the vaccine, 93% of adults had actual immunity, so there were very few who had to worry at all).  From the VARIVAX vaccine insert: </p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div>Therefore, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, whenever possible, close association with</div>
<div>susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks.</div>
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<p>  I'm surprised to hear some of the folks on the "I'M NOT VACCINATING" forum feel its only acceptable to shed illness if you are following the vaccine schedule.</p>
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<p>and op - I wouldn't sweat it.  respect her wishes and if you want to be snarky, make sure to ask her to return the courtesy when she and her family have flumist blown up their noses.</p>
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>13Sandals</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1279364/help-me-out-with-this#post_16050741"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Ally Rae, I certainly hope you advocate quarantine as strongly to every mother whose 5 year old is jabbed with the varicella vaccine to make sure they aren't endangering the immuno-compromised or pregnant woman.  (Of course, before the vaccine, 93% of adults had actual immunity, so there were very few who had to worry at all).  From the VARIVAX vaccine insert: </p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div>Therefore, vaccine recipients should attempt to avoid, whenever possible, close association with</div>
<div>susceptible high-risk individuals for up to six weeks.</div>
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<p>  I'm surprised to hear some of the folks on the "I'M NOT VACCINATING" forum feel its only acceptable to shed illness if you are following the vaccine schedule.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>and op - I wouldn't sweat it.  respect her wishes and if you want to be snarky, make sure to ask her to return the courtesy when she and her family have flumist blown up their noses.</p>
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Thanks 13Sandals.  You're right....I'm not sweating it.  I just didn't understand the logic.  Viral shedding happens with the chicken pox vaccine as well as the flumist or any other "live virus."  How many people warn you they just got their kid immunized for chicken pox?  How many pregnant women walk into their child's preschool or elementary school who aren't immune?  Aren't they at more risk?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I did post this on the I'M NOT VACCINATING board to hear from other NON-VACCINATING parents.....those with experience with this.  *shrug*</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span> 
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<p>So, there's no real reason for her to say that, I'm sure it just came out in response to her fear of disease.  I doubt she took the time to really think about it other than thinking "Chicken pox!  eww, stay away!"  and she may have some underlying frustration that you do not see things in the same way as she does....as you have with her.</p>
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I can see that.  She's also the sister that, when she found out she was pregnant said, "And don't try to scare me into having a natural birth with all that midwife crap."  lol  We don't see eye-to-eye on much of anything.  I respect her decision (regardless of where it comes from) and am moving on.  I don't much care if she chooses to or not.  I was just informing her that my kids have been exposed.  We can only make choices and decisions based on the information we have, right?</p>
 

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<p>I don't vax but I would want the choice whether or not to knowingly expose my DD to chicken pox via someone else's infected child.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>That said, I think what she said to you was just based on a knee-jerk reaction and not a logical, well-thought-out reasoning process.</p>
 
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