[caricandothis]

I'm going to try to make this as short and sweet as possible because I'm sure there's been tons of posts just like this on here before.

I am 100% against circ'ing my unborn son (due in Oct, not much time left now). I had my oldest son circ'd when he was 2 wks old (I was 16 and completely uninformed that there was even a choice about it) and have shed MANY tears since then about what I allowed to happen to my baby...it was horrific, I can still hear his screaming in my mind and it's been 11 years.

My dh is not my oldest son's father and therefore was not there when he was born/circ'd yet he knows that the memory of the event haunts me (just thinks I'm an overprotective mama I guess).

Since then, dh and I have had two daughters and haven't had to ever think about circumcision. We live in one of those areas of the country where it's never even discussed, it's just done so I've known very well what his thoughts on the subject would be. Looking back now, I know I should've been more proactive about it, but honestly, I didn't educate myself until recently that there was even a choice...never realized how unnecessary it really is.

When we found out this time that it was a boy, I started forming in my mind what I would say to him. I decided that there is absolutely no way that I can let this happen to my precious baby and that I really am going to have to work at changing dh's mind. Dh's first reaction to anything is defensiveness and anger and he does not discuss ANYTHING, ever, so I knew it'd be a hard battle...but worth it to me.

I dropped the bomb last night. Basically, dh's "reasons" were a) "it's nasty, have you ever seen one that's uncirc'd? it's totally gross" (how stupid?!) b) uncirc'd penis' are dirty and will get infections (he's an EMT and has apparently seen dirty uncirc'd penis'...whatever.) c) God commanded it to be done, in the Bible. Puh-leeeeeze...that one made me almost laugh but I was too busy bawling. He was VERY angry with me and basically "put his foot down" and said "it will be done".

I swear, I will have a complete and utter breakdown if I can't convince him. I vomited this morning after I read just the dialogue of the video (someone posted it on another thread, I cannot bring myself to actually watch the video).

What do I do? I'm sorry this is so long, but I'm sure you all can understand how important this is to me. I need to find real, solid proof--not scare tactics because he won't be receptive to those, he'll turn them off. Has anyone been able to turn a stubborn, set in thier way SO like mine?

 

[dnr3301]

You can do this, you will be ok, deep breaths.

Your dh is reacting to lots of societal pressures, there is a great article around that will help you understand your dh's perspective. Not agree, understand.

IF, and that's a big if, he has actually seen "lots of dirty uncirced penises" he has probably seen even more dirty circed ones, but he doesn't equate the two. I doubt he's seen that many.

I have to go now, but I'm sure more people will pop in and help. They always do.

 

[Daisie125]

A year ago, I was in your position. My DH said many similar things to yours. Basically I put MY foot down and told him that it was happening over my dead body. I talked about it for months, and eventually I convinced him to let me have my way. At first he was still pro circ.

I am happy to say he has come full circle, and is getting ready to start the process of restoring.

Keep at it, mama!

 

[LianneM]

Check my sig - the last link is great for understanding where your DH is coming from.

 

[nd_deadhead]

Oh Cari, I'm so sorry. The end of a pregnancy is stressful enough without having to fight about circumcision.

Of course his reasons are ridiculous, but telling him that won't help.

Hopefully someone will post the list of famous male heartthrobs that are intact, so your DH can see that women do NOT find them "nasty and gross". Or you might mention that femle genitals aren't the most beautiful thing in the world, but no one suggests trimming them up so they look nicer.

Dirty? Infections? I'm pretty sure you will teach your son to wash (he isn't suggesting that circumcised males don't have to wash, is he?). And even IF infections were treated with amputation, wouldn't you wait until the infection actually happens? Remember, ANY surgery (and circumcision IS an operation) can result in infection.

God commanded it? Yes, for Jews. You didn't mention being Jewish, so this isn't an issue for you. If he thinks circumcision is a requirement for Christians, ask him to call your clergy and ask about the circumcision ceremony at your church, and who performs it, and if it's done at the church or at your house. If there is no such ceremony, and God says go ahead and let the doctor do it in the hospital, it doesn't sound like much of a religious requirement, does it? If the doctor splashes water on the baby's head, does that count as a baptism?

Another tack you can try is to tell him that since the baby will be born with a foreskin, it is up to HIM to provide evidence (NOT just urban legend) that foreskins are nasty, dirty, gross, and prone to infection. Let him find a medical organization that recommends it (he won't).

And remind him that this isn't about HIM, it's about the baby.

You might want to check with your hospital. It's possible that they will require YOUR signature - not just DH's - on the consent form, so they might not be able to do it at all without your permission.

Hugs to you, and please let us know how it goes.

 

[Yoshua]

PM'ed you about your husbands Point C.

The pm will help if you are christian. If you are Jewish or Muselum then it may not help.

Take a breather, every man when he is first confronted with this will get angry in some way shape or form. For someone to accept circ is wrong when they are circ'ed is to admit that they have been damaged. It is hard to work through.

You waited a very long time to start this conversation with him, he will have very little time to let this sink in before the baby is actually here.

Talk to him about how painful it was for DS1 and how you had to change the bandages and you will not do that to another son. Talk to him about your experiance on that.

Men often stamp their feet about having it done, but then refuse to help with the bandages and clean up process afterwards.

 

[KrystalC]

First of all, BREATHE! Unfortunately, you may not be able to change your husband's mind, but hopefully some of this stuff will help you form your arguments and convince him that circumcision is completely unnecessary.

Here's the link to the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) statement with regard to circumcision: http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/marcircum.htm

An intact penis is only dirty if you don't wipe it during diaper changes. I'm sure you'd wipe a circ'd penis off, so why wouldn't you do the same with an uncirc'd one? I'm sure you won't be allowing your baby boy to sit in a dirty diaper all day long!!!!

Tell him that baby girls have the highest risk of UTI and infection, but you'd never dream of cutting a daughter's genitals, so why should you do that to a baby boy?

Have him watch the video of the circumcision being performed and tell him that if he MUST have his son circumcised, he's going to have to sit in that room with him during the procedure. Hopefully that makes him really think about what he's going to put his son through. If he says he won't go in there with his son, ask him why he thinks it's okay for his son to be in there alone going through all of that if he can't even watch it happen.

As with any surgical procedure, there is ALWAYS a risk, however minute, that it will be performed incorrectly and a botched circumcision is not a pretty sight, nor is a potential infection in the wound afterward. Some babies even DIE from the procedure!! Is that a risk he really wants to take???

Some of the others frequenting this area will have far better advice than I can offer you. I wish you the best of luck!

 

[caricandothis]

Thank you all so much for your quick replies, I appreciate all of your words so much. I have sent him an email--a very calm, friendly one with a couple of links to articles that I have asked him to read. I am hoping and praying that he will at least read them and be willing to discuss it with me rationally. I hate fighting...I just wish he'd be receptive to the info I am presenting to him.

I realize now that I may have waited too long and I deeply regret it. I will just keep on praying and doing what I can to convince him. I will keep you posted, you all are such a great support to me.

 

[Anamoo]

My husband an I were divided by a gulf on this issue as well. He never did see the light before our first son came into the world. He had said his peace "The boy will be circumcised"!
I made sure that everyone in my OB's office (every Doc/every nurse) knew the child would NOT be circ'd. I put it in bold print in my birth plan. During labor/ delivery I said as often as I could manage "DO NOT CIRCUMCISE MY CHILD". I refused to allow anyone to remove him from my sight until I was able to get off the bed. The nurses asked me to "just let DH accompany him to the nursery" And I told them exactly why I couldn't allow that.
DH -still glowing from witnessing the birth of his first child- promised he would not circ-"you rest we'll be back later" . We came home a few hours later, ds intact.
Fast forward 3 weeks-- a letter comes from a ped we didn't use, with forms enclosed for new patients to fill out, with information on and release forms for ------CIRCUMCISION! His mother had already made the appointment (but she mistakenly gave them our address) The proverbial sh*t hit the fan! I had a fit! Put my *own* foot down and told him if he ever tried to go behind my back on this issue again I was leaving! That I loved him and honored him in every way I knew how - but if I had to leave to keep my son safe, I would. It wasn't until that moment that he knew I was never gonna give in on this issue and he might as well get cozy with the idea.

I had to let go of some other issues in order for him to realize THIS one was the important one. Above all other requests and gripes THIS one is the one you must go along with. It has been worth it to me. The other things really didn't matter in the grand scheme of things-- to me anyway.

We have since had another son and a daughter. He has never mentioned having circ done again. If my son's choose to be cir'd later well that's their choice and they are the only ones qualified to make it. DH agree's with this one point now. He's still not an advocate for baby boys and may never be. I'm sure he was scared and uncertain of my choice for a long time. But regardless of his feelings I had to do what was right for my babies. I'm not suggesting you threaten to leave-- but that you too have a foot. Put it down if THIS is your issue!
Good luck and Congrats on the son!!!!! Renee

 

[myfairbabies]

My dh refused to talk about it at first also. I got him to watch a video, and he thought it was awful. After that, he was willing to listen to anything I had to say, but I didn't push him. While getting ready or something, i would just say "I read today that...isn't that crazy?" and then just left it. We never really had a discussion. One day he said, "Ok, we can leave our boys intact, but they get to decide if they want it done when they are 12." I took it! That was just a few months ago, I continued talking about it and now he is almost as against it as I am. He also agrees that only an adult can decide if he wants that kind of surgery.

I really think a video would be effective to open the doors. He needs to know what actually happens. He should know that it IS painful, and it will continue to be painful afterwards. Ask his if he numbed up his hand (or not), cut the tip of his finger off, would he feel pain after the anesthesia wore off? Ofcourse! Your baby would be in pain also. He should also know all the risks. This is includes the most severe- death, having the penis amputated, and others you won't know until he is an adult, such as unable to orgasm during sex. GL! I know how you feel!

 

[eightyferrettoes]

In the end, you don't have to "convince" him of anything. You do not need his permission to refuse cosmetic surgery on your baby's genitals-- the hospital consent forms are all signed by the mother, not the dad.

It WOULD be nice if he'd get rational about this, instead of reacting like a tantruming child, for the sake of family harmony and your own peace of mind.

But your son's safety doesn't depend on his father's ability to grow up before October.

Hang in there, mama. And congrats! Baby boys are the funnest! Don't sweat this, and don't get scared; just keep refusing and refuting his silly reasons.

 

[pdx.mothernurture]

I agree with dnr3301, deep breaths---you can do this.

Be strong, and try to respond to his arguments logically and with compassion. It can be really difficult for a circumcised man to process the concept that circumcision is unnecessary and damaging. It's a lot to digest...penises are very important to men, and no man wants to think something that was done to him as a brand new baby caused irreversable harm to his penis.

a. "It's nasty." or, "It looks weird!"

Pure, unadulterated cultural conditioning. A normal, healthy penis is a normal, healthy penis. There's nothing any more 'nasty' about a penis with a foreskin than there is a vulva with labia or a clitoral hood. We're born perfect, and every part serves a purpose.

b.) "It's dirty." or "Intact penises are infection-prone."

All genitals require regular washing. Care of an intact penis is simple: When they're infants, DO NOTHING. Just wipe off the outside, like you would a finger. Years later, when the foreskin has separated from the glans and the boy discovers he can pull it back comfortably, all he needs to do is "Retract, Rinse, Replace". That's really all there is to it. It takes a few seconds at most, and while kids may need a reminder to wash behind their ears, few boys need to be reminded to handle their penises in the bath or shower.

The AAP says:

"Circumcision has been suggested as an effective method of maintaining penile hygiene since the time of the Egyptian dynasties, but there is little evidence to affirm the association between circumcision status and optimal penile hygiene." LINK

and

"Your son's intact or uncircumcised penis requires no special care and is easy to keep clean." LINK

The Canadian Paediatric Society (CPS) says only 1% of intact boys will *ever* require a circumcision for medical reasons.

c.) "God commanded it in the Bible."

God NEVER commanded circumcision for gentiles/Christians.

Go to http://www.biblegateway.com and review these verses together:

Galatians 5:1-6, Galatians 6:12-16, 1 Corinthians 7:19, Romans 2:29, Colossians 2:8-12, Philippians 3:2-3, and Romans 12:2

Or, check out some of these websites:

Christian Parents and the Circumcision Issue (Pamplet)

PDF: http://www.coloradonocirc.org/files/...sion_Issue.pdf

MSWORD: http://www.coloradonocirc.org/stats/.../pamphlets.php

Should Christians be Circumcised?
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Art...cumcision.html

Christianity and Circumcision: A Call for Christian Action, by Van Lewis:
http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/lewis1/

The Morality of Circumcision, by Father John Dietzen
http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/dietzen1/

Circumcision: A Biblical Perspective, by Susan Crawford Beil
http://www.allnaturalmamas.com/bibli...rcumcision.asp

NoHarmm, "Circumcision and the Christian Parent": http://www.noharmm.org/christianparent.htm

CIRP: "Answers from the Bible to Questions About Circumcision": http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/glass2/

"The Holy Bible, Circumcision False Prophets, and the Christian Parent" by George Hill: http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/christian.html

"Christian Parents and the Circumcision Issue", by James E. Peron, MS, Ed.D, from Many Blessings, Volume 3, Spring 2000: http://www.cirp.org/pages/cultural/peron1/

"What the Bible Really Says About Circumcision", by laura Jezek: http://stopcirc.com/christian.html

"Why Christians Need Not Be Circumcised": http://www.circumstitions.com/Xy.html

Christians for Wholeness: http://www.acts15.org/

---

IMO, you need to turn the discussion around and put the ball in HIS court to prove to you why it's necessary/in your healthy, normal son's best interests to be subjected to elective genital reduction surgery shortly after birth. The foreskin comes standard; It's your husband who's insisting on invasive action. No major medical organization IN THE WORLD recommends routine infant circumcision, so rest assured you're standing on very firm ground in refusing to circumcise your son.

Best wishes, and ~*~*~Strong Momma~*~*~ vibes your way! Keep us updated...

Jen

 

[KnitLady]

It might be encouraging for you to read this link http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=500861 It's about how a lot of our dh/so's didn't agree with not circ'ing. You are not alone! A lot of us have gone through the same battle.

Remind him that as a parent it is both of your responsibility to fully research anything so permanent. I also think he should have to watch the video. I don't think it's right to insist on having him circ'd but refuse to learn about it and watch the video. You don't have to watch it with him. I personally can't handle watching those videos.

Keep researching, keep reading, keep sending him links. You will probably have more success if you really try to keep from arguing and keep discussing. In the end, you might have to simply put your foot down and flat out refuse to do it. I ended up having to do this. You have to protect your son.

 

[KrystalC]

If he won't read the articles you link to him over email, try printing them out and leave them on the coffee table for him to find. Even a small glimpse might encourage him to read further.

As a previous poster sad, call your hospital and make sure he's unable to sign the consent forms to allow it. If they can't do it without your permission, you've won the battle - at least for the time being. That said, you should also call your pediatrician and let them know that your son is NOT to be circumcised for any reason, even if your husband or another individual in the family makes an appointment to have it done to avoid what Anamoo almost had happen to her son without her knowledge or consent!

I hope you're successful in convincing your husband that it's a horrible thing to do to a child! However, if you're not, stand strong on this and don't let him do it without your permission!!!!!!

 

[Yoshua]

the tactics listed here are near appalling.

Yes I am an intactivist. Yes I believe his penis his choice.

But I am sorry, ripping apart a family, which some of these 'tactics' would do is appalling.

Simply talk to him.

I do not think that some of the 'advice' given here would be followed nessesarily by the people who gave it.

You have my PM. all men go through the anger denial stage.

Work this out with your husband. You are a family. You choose him. YOU knew you were against circ after your first child.

You should have talked to him about this before having kids with him. Not waiting until a month or 2 before the baby was here.

You 2 need to talk and work this out.

 

[kldliam]

Katie's mom is going through the same thing. The suggestions I gave her are the same ones I would give to you. Please read them here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=502086

 

[DocsNemesis]

Everyone else has such great suggestions, I dont have much to add! I do want to say that the people I have known who had their sons circumcised said that they had such a hard time keeping their penises clean because poo would get caught in the folds, as well as smegma. Know what you do with an intact penis-wipe the outside, thats it! My son is intact and I have to say that I found cleaning him after poopy diapers was a million times easier than changing his sisters. Nothing gets in an intact penis. And intact babies are actually less likely to get an infection because the foreskin protects the opening to the urethra.
The other thing I want to mention is the shear number of men who are unhappy/angry about having been circumcised as an infant. Many men dont want to admit it, but there are THOUSANDS of men who are going through foreskin restoration, not to mention the hundreds that have sued (I am sure there would be more if the statute of limitations didnt suck). My dh hates being circumcised. He has the same problems MANY circ'd men do-he requires a lot of stimulation to get off and often cant finish during sex. He goes numb after while.
I can safely say that if my dh wanted our baby boy circ'd, I would leave him. Period. No one is hurting my son like that.

 

[InDaPhunk]

Hang tight, sister.

 

[speairson]

I also think you need to keep talking to him, have him watch the video and make sure he knows that this is really important to you. It may also help if you could have a man talk to him about it. My dh was kinda on the fence about circ when we adopted our son, so the first time we took him to the ped, I asked the ped about circ. The ped told us that it wasn't necessary, it would be extremely painful, etc. He went on to explain why circ isn't necessary, etc. All in all, having a professional male explain this helped dh realize how unnecessary it really was. Not to knock my dh at all, he really is a great dad and now is totally against circ.

I think some men on some level don't think a woman can make as good a decisions as men about penises since they don't have them

Good luck to you though. It sounds like ultimately it is your decision if you have to sign for consent, so you really don't need his permission. Although I would advise you to do everything you can for the sake of your relationship to get him to come around.

 

[Quirky]

Yoshua, I find your post hugely unhelpful. Frankly, you haven't been in this position, so for you to sit in judgment of the other mamas who HAVE and are talking from THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE is insulting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoshua the tactics listed here are near appalling.

What's more appalling, for a mother to put her foot down and threaten to leave her marriage to protect her baby, or for a man to threaten to mutilate his son's penis?

Quote:

Yes I am an intactivist. Yes I believe his penis his choice.

Really?

Quote:

But I am sorry, ripping apart a family, which some of these 'tactics' would do is appalling.

No mother should have to sacrifice a part of her son's body for the sake of her marriage. EVER. EVER. EVER. Her son's body is not hers to negotiate with. It is more appalling for a mother to have to sacrifice her son's foreskin for the sake of her marriage than it is for her to emphasize to her husband that she will never, ever consent to circumcision.

Quote:

Simply talk to him.

NEWSFLASH, Yoshua - not all men listen to reason. Not all men get past the anger/denial stage. If they did, there wouldn't be nearly a million babies circed in this country every year.

Quote:

I do not think that some of the 'advice' given here would be followed nessesarily by the people who gave it.

Did you bother to read the posts from women who had to take this tack with their dhs to get them to listen? Many, many women on this board -- myself included -- have had to tell our dhs how deadly serious we are that we will PROTECT OUR BABIES WITH OUR LIVES even if it means our marriages will fail. My marriage is not more important than my baby's health and well-being. If my dh pulled the kind of stunt that anamoo's dh tried to do, I would have filed for divorce the very next day.

Quote:

You have my PM. all men go through the anger denial stage. Work this out with your husband. You are a family. You choose him. YOU knew you were against circ after your first child. You should have talked to him about this before having kids with him. Not waiting until a month or 2 before the baby was here.

Oh, that's helpful.

Why don't you try to make her feel worse? She's being reasonable, her dh is being an ass.

Quote:

You 2 need to talk and work this out.

Well, duh. But if she needs to let her dh know how serious she is, even by letting him know that she values her baby's health and well-being over his hurt feelings, then so be it. She is the best judge of what's appropriate for her marriage -- everyone else here is sharing their advice, and experience.