[mocha09]

I babysit 2 1/2 year old Melvin, and have him and my 1 1/2 year old dd. Today we were playing at a neighbor's wading pool with their 4 year old and their mom (first time play-date).

Melvin was pouring water from a cup over the side of the pool.

Me: (getting down at eye level and looking into Melvin's eyes). Melvin, please pour the water IN the pool.

Melvin: Pours water on the grass.

Me: (getting down at eye level and looking at Melvin) Melvin, I feel worried when you pour water on the grass because things are getting muddy and dirty. Pour the water into the pool, please.

Melvin: Pours water on the grass.

Me: (getting a large bucket and bringing it to Melvin) Melvin, you can pour the water into this bucket.

Melvin: Pours water into bucket, and then pours bucket of water into the grass.

Me: Melvin, I'm taking the bucket away because you poured water into the grass again. Please pour the water into the pool.

Melvin: (About to pour water into the grass again)

Neighbor Mom: (In gentle but firm voice) Melvin, Noooo! If you pour that water onto the grass again, I'm going to take the cup away. Michelle asked you several times nicely, and it's time to stop NOW.

Melvin: Pours water into the pool and never pours it over the side again.

---

Okay, does No work? This woman was very gentle in her voice, but also very firm. Maybe I haven't mastered the "voice?" Is it because she is a stranger? Did I do the wrong thing? Should I have provided the consequence right away? I often give both kids one warning if they are grabbing toys or yelling or pushing, and then take the toy away. It doesn't usually stop the behavior right away, but today I noticed a marked decrease in grabbing, so maybe my method doesn't work right away but would pay off in the long run?

Neighbor's method DID work right away, but/and is it okay to come right out with NO?

Thoughts on this?

 

[mocha09]

P.S. Neighbor mom's dd was going backwards on the slide so she couldn't see the kids at the bottom of the pool. Neighbor's mom told dd not to do that, but she did it one more time. Neighbor's mom said that if she did it one more time, she would take a time out from the pool because she wasn't being safe. Her dd did not do it again.

I have been working with the theory that time-outs are not something I want to do with my dd. But here is a warning of one, and: poof! Unsafe behavior gone!

I'm confused right now.

MamaDuck? Anyone? Beuller?

 

[deb_n]

As the mama of one stubborn minded toddler boy, I am not finding any one method that works all of the time. Sometimes he needs to know why and to understand how another child might feel, but sometimes he needs strong direction and a definite boundary. (If you run from me in the park then we cannot go there again) Yeah, timeouts bother me also the way I see them used with a neighbor...usually they are not addressing the real issues or the often valid feelings of the child. And as the backseat driver, I can see that it only gives them a place to wallow in self pity, lash out in other ways. I think that the problem with her use of timeouts is that they are punitive, rarely balanced with acknowledgement of the feelings, and not self directed. I found this good article on timeouts:

http://www.parentstages.com/article....0&partnerid=78

So I think the other mama's use was good-you had discussed the options, he was not listening so he needed to know the possible consequences of his actions.

Too sleep so might not be able to make this a cohesive thought...maybe others have some thoughts?

 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I think the only think I would have added to what you were doing is to physically block the cup from going over the side of the pool after the first request. As in "Please pour the water IN the pool" and guiding his hands. I think the reason the neighbor's request worked is because she was different from you and he could respond to her without "losing face" with you. And she didn't jump right in with "no", she let you try several times before introducing "no" into the conversation.

I don't see what the neighbor's mom did with her own daughter as a "classic time out" that people here worry about. There is a difference between "sit in that chair" and being removed from the situation where she is acting in a dangerous manner. So, being removed from the pool/slide because she was dangerous would be OK with me. In fact, it sounds like the neighbor mom handled things well all the way around.

 

[IdentityCrisisMama]

It's possible that you and the neighbor woman are the prefect combo for that child. I usually take the approach you took and then move up to a style more like your neighbor. Depending on DC and me I just distract, joke, give options and etc. but in other situations I'm firm and direct. I feel strongly about following through with things but I'm really flexible about how I get there. (I do have the 'voice' though but I've always wanted the 'look', lol)

I'm curious about how you would have handled the situation if the neighbor hadn't interrupted.

Also, I do things like give a 'warning' if I don't like the behavior and my requests aren't being listened to. I don't threaten with a time out or anyting but I usually say something like "I can't let you do that again, would you like to stop or would you like me to pick you up?"

I have always been confused about if or how this differs from punishment, threats and bribes (depending on the situation). In the end, I think it comes down to parental motivation. Maybe???

 

[mocha09]

Hmm.

ICM, that's very insightful. Neighbor mom was just telling me that her daughter's pre-school has the perfect teacher combination: one is firm and straight-forward, and one is touchy-feely-nurturing type, and how this combo is great, because either certain kids respond better to certain styles, or certain styles work in certain situations. I didn't even connect that to the situation at hand!

I did physically help him pour the water back into the pool, and as soon as I went to sit down, he scooped it up and poured it back out. I think that, as I am a fairly new care provider towards him, he is doing what's natural and normal for children, which is to test me anytime he gets an opportunity. Next time I'll just stay closer to the situation.

I would have taken the cup away the final time if the neighbor mom hadn't been there.

I'm trying really hard to avoid saying "no" and finding different words, because I try not to use "no" with my dd too much, and Melvin (er, not his *real* name, BTW) says "No!" a lot to my dd. I want him to reduce the amount he uses this word, because he usually yells it and dd cries when he yells it to her. Right now we're working with finding different words and actions to use. It's slowly changing things.

 

[Sylith]

I don't remember which book this was in, but it's one of the GD reading-list ones

The book said sometimes little kids sometimes responding to the second adult/authority figure who states a rule. Apparently hearing it from two separate sources helps to establish it as a standard in their minds.

 

[PikkuMyy]

Generally, when I begin to babysit a new child, it takes several sessions to establish the rules and my authority. I agree with your plan o reduce the use of "no" because of how often he uses it. He may hear it a lot and it may not mean much but it did this time because two people told him what not to do.