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Discussion Starter #1
Maybe I am wrong here, maybe he is right.. who knows.<br><br>
He plays a game online that we will call SW, Its a game that lets you create your own world and interact with others and chat and stuff. I tried to play it for like 2 minutes once, and was like. OK I don't understand the appeal.<br><br>
I get it that some people are just super into games. Unfortunately a lot of men in my family are addicted to these kinds of games like SW, WOW and what not to the point that it effects there lives.<br><br>
My little brother (19 now). I feel is getting too involved in this game. Something happened, some drama, and he is ranting and raving about it on FB. So I casually mention that maybe its time to get a hobby, a job, or a girlfriend and not let a game be the only thing that inspires anger or happiness in your life.<br><br>
He replied back that video games are not pointless and are the same as knitting and surrogacy for me.<br><br>
I have tried to explain to him that there is no end result to a game. Knitting has an end product, surrogacy has a end product. The only end product you get from a video game is maybe a feeling of accomplishment but also the knowledge that you got nothing else done for the day.<br><br>
He disagrees. He almost sees his game playing as "work". He has to be there for the other players. I have actually heard him tell my dd "Uncle A has to go to work now, I will play with you later".<br><br>
He is not an engineer, he isn't a software designer, he is just a teenager, without a job, who plays way too much computer games.<br><br>
He told me that he is doing good by playing the game so much, told me to think about all the designers and engineers that would be out of a job..<br><br>
I am more worried about his mental state if he feels that a game is his life.<br><br>
Help me make sense to him, or help me understand his way of thinking on this please.
 

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Telling him it's pointless will make him cling to it more to convince himself of its importance.<br><br>
Are you sure he actually thinks of it as work and isn't just using language he thinks will get you to let him keep playing?<br><br>
What does he do to contribute to the home he is living in? Does he clean, cook, pay rent, go grocery shopping and walk the dog, or even help with the costs for his game (monthly subscription, part of the internet)? If not, that might be where to address things. Not "you play that game so much you don't do XYZ" but "you need to contribute to the house, here are some possible ideas, what do you want to do?" But that'd have to come from the person whose house he's in.<br><br><br>
And there is no way in the world that the game designers need all the people playing the game to play several hours a day, 7 days a week.
 

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i'm sorry - it must be hard to be so worried for him. i think it's an addiction just like any other. i don't know if there's anything you can say or do to get through to him. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">
 

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The fact that he likened your surragacy to his online computer gaming seems a bit.......strange to me. I guess I just dont see Surragacy as a HOBBY, but thats just me.
 

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If knitting takes you away from the "real world" that is just as bad.<br><br>
He is your brother and you care about him. So sit down and talk to him face to face. After that it is up to him.
 

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For a long while I was very involved in an online role playing game (not the same type of game as WOW, or SW, but for the purposes of this discussion the same. Different in form, not in function). Probably almost as involved as your brother is, it sounds like.<br><br>
Here's why I (and most of the other people on the game, I think), were so absorbed and obsessed with it:<br>
-For the most part, all/most of the people on the game were fairly/very powerless in real life. The game was a place where we could feel powerful. In real life, I couldn't manage a thing, had no power at all over my life, let alone over anyone else(typical of a high schooler/just out of high schooler). In the game, I was "sister" to one of the most powerful people in the game (there were... 5000-8000 players in the english speaking part of the game when I played. maybe 20,000 in the whole game, and they had influence in france as well.) The kings, the administrators, she could get them to do anything really. I was wife and like a little sister to the two heads of the most powerful secret military organizations that was possibly the most powerful group in the game, most definitely the most powerful military group. I was a Lt. in a smaller military group, however it was the largest and most prestigous "daylight" military group, with a more direct ear than most to the generals. I was a countess and a baroness in my own right.<br><br>
-I was treated like an adult. No one treated my like a little kid, even though I was 15, almost 16 when I started, and most of the players were 20's/30's.<br><br>
-At the same time, I found mother/older sister/older brother figures who supported me and believed in me when my parents were starting to give up on believing in me, who gave me time and attention, which were in very short supply from my parents, who loved me, and mentored me.<br><br>
-I was considered skilled and accomplished. I rose through the ranks of the militia. I was considered one of the top graphics designers/makers of a specific form of graphic design prevalent in the game, of the entire gameworld. (20-30k people). I help numerous gov't positions. Unlike in the real world where I could barely pass high school.<br><br>
-I did important things. Nothing in real life seemed like it made any difference. trig test? gee, really useful. chores? so helpful. we have a maid. in the game, things I did made the world go round. I was the public prosecutor, responsible for keeping justice. I was a million other things that made a difference.<br><br>
-I had friends. lots of friends. In real life, I didn't have any friends at all. In the game, I had tons. From the game, I made "real life" friends with people all across the globe.<br><br>
-It felt like I mattered. A time or two, I quite because of all the drama, and I had my friends begging me to come back. Heck, they still do (but I don't have time for the game anymore, I'm too busy living real life.) In real life? It felt like I could disappear off the planet and no one would notice except my family.<br><br>
-It was easier to interact socially with people via the computer than in the real world.<br><br>
-It was an escape from a very painful real world.<br><br>
-I met my DP through the game.<br><br>
That said, I'm not sure it was healthy for me. It DID fill a much needed hole in my life at that time, and I think that I wouldn't have done so well if I didn't have it as an outlet. I don't spend all my time on that game anymore though. I have a job, a synogogue, an apartment, a life with my DP, and I'm starting to make friends, which is amazing. (the first time in years and years).<br><br>
Maybe he was deeply traumatized and scarred by high school and needs time to escape and do whatever he wants and heal, before he can move on to "being an adult". Maybe he feels totally powerless and needs a place where he has power and is needed. Maybe he is really really lonely, and it's easier to make friends online. Maybe your brother is just plain addicted to the video game. I don't know.<br><br>
You asked for another perspective, that's mine. HTH (feel free to ask me more questions if you want.)
 

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I agree with the pps that, if his gaming is otherwise hindering his ability to participate in necessary parts of life, it is a problem. However, I think that your approach might need some adjustment.<br><br>
I play the piano. I practice nearly every day. Most of the time, though, there is no end product. I have not performed in many years (and have no desire to take up that life again). There are times, I'm sure, that my children would rather not hear the same passage played five times while I fix a mistake. I play because it enriches my life. Should I stop because, to an outside observer, it is pointless?<br><br>
sapphire_chan has a wise approach. If you want to help him, help him to find a way to balance the aspects of his life, not take away something he values. If he plays games with a group, help him to find a group that plays only at set times. A lot of working people play and set things up so that they can fit it in.<br><br>
I'm not saying that the gaming is not a problem, but respect in your approach can go a long way.
 

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If it makes you feel better we have several friends who, when younger, fit your brother's description to a T. Through college and even grad school in two cases they were obsessed. But they went to college and grad school, met someone who was also into gaming and have real lives. They still play but now it is after work and when the kids have gone to bed. By all means talk to your brother but know there is hope. Comparing it to surrogacy is a little odd but I will give him knitting. the knitting analogy at least show he thinks of it as a hobby. Not sure what to make of surrogacy.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Magelet</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419704"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">For a long while I was very involved in an online role playing game (not the same type of game as WOW, or SW, but for the purposes of this discussion the same. Different in form, not in function). Probably almost as involved as your brother is, it sounds like.<br><br>
Here's why I (and most of the other people on the game, I think), were so absorbed and obsessed with it:<br>
-For the most part, all/most of the people on the game were fairly/very powerless in real life. The game was a place where we could feel powerful. In real life, I couldn't manage a thing, had no power at all over my life, let alone over anyone else(typical of a high schooler/just out of high schooler). In the game, I was "sister" to one of the most powerful people in the game (there were... 5000-8000 players in the english speaking part of the game when I played. maybe 20,000 in the whole game, and they had influence in france as well.) The kings, the administrators, she could get them to do anything really. I was wife and like a little sister to the two heads of the most powerful secret military organizations that was possibly the most powerful group in the game, most definitely the most powerful military group. I was a Lt. in a smaller military group, however it was the largest and most prestigous "daylight" military group, with a more direct ear than most to the generals. I was a countess and a baroness in my own right.<br><br>
-I was treated like an adult. No one treated my like a little kid, even though I was 15, almost 16 when I started, and most of the players were 20's/30's.<br><br>
-At the same time, I found mother/older sister/older brother figures who supported me and believed in me when my parents were starting to give up on believing in me, who gave me time and attention, which were in very short supply from my parents, who loved me, and mentored me.<br><br>
-I was considered skilled and accomplished. I rose through the ranks of the militia. I was considered one of the top graphics designers/makers of a specific form of graphic design prevalent in the game, of the entire gameworld. (20-30k people). I help numerous gov't positions. Unlike in the real world where I could barely pass high school.<br><br>
-I did important things. Nothing in real life seemed like it made any difference. trig test? gee, really useful. chores? so helpful. we have a maid. in the game, things I did made the world go round. I was the public prosecutor, responsible for keeping justice. I was a million other things that made a difference.<br><br>
-I had friends. lots of friends. In real life, I didn't have any friends at all. In the game, I had tons. From the game, I made "real life" friends with people all across the globe.<br><br>
-It felt like I mattered. A time or two, I quite because of all the drama, and I had my friends begging me to come back. Heck, they still do (but I don't have time for the game anymore, I'm too busy living real life.) In real life? It felt like I could disappear off the planet and no one would notice except my family.<br><br>
-It was easier to interact socially with people via the computer than in the real world.<br><br>
-It was an escape from a very painful real world.<br><br>
-I met my DP through the game.<br><br>
That said, I'm not sure it was healthy for me. It DID fill a much needed hole in my life at that time, and I think that I wouldn't have done so well if I didn't have it as an outlet. I don't spend all my time on that game anymore though. I have a job, a synogogue, an apartment, a life with my DP, and I'm starting to make friends, which is amazing. (the first time in years and years).<br><br>
Maybe he was deeply traumatized and scarred by high school and needs time to escape and do whatever he wants and heal, before he can move on to "being an adult". Maybe he feels totally powerless and needs a place where he has power and is needed. Maybe he is really really lonely, and it's easier to make friends online. Maybe your brother is just plain addicted to the video game. I don't know.<br><br>
You asked for another perspective, that's mine. HTH (feel free to ask me more questions if you want.)</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mama2toomany</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419557"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My little brother (19 now). I feel is getting too involved in this game. Something happened, some drama, and he is ranting and raving about it on FB. So I casually mention that maybe its time to get a hobby, a job, or a girlfriend and not let a game be the only thing that inspires anger or happiness in your life.<br><br>
He replied back that video games are not pointless and are the same as knitting and surrogacy for me.<br><br>
I have tried to explain to him that there is no end result to a game. Knitting has an end product, surrogacy has a end product. The only end product you get from a video game is maybe a <b>feeling of accomplishment</b> but also the knowledge that you got nothing else done for the day.<br></div>
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I think you devaluing his emotions and self esteem. He is still growing up and IMO he doesn't think well of himself. The only place he feels safe and accomplished, valued is in SW.<br><br>
If someone said surrogacy is stupid how would you feel. This is how your brother feels. I think I would work on finding ways that he can find a since of self accomplishment and self worth.<br><br><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GadgetGuide/story?id=4243573&page=1" target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Gad...4243573&page=1</a>
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I can actually argue a point though.. he can't.. he just says that its the same.. its not the same.<br><br>
He actually lives with my mom now, he doesn't pay rent, doesn't work, doesn't pay for the game, or any other bills. He is in school but very part time, its High school but he is in a special program and only has to go once a week.<br><br>
I honestly would feel the same if it was piano he was playing. If its taking up his whole life, it needs adjusting.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Marsupialmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419764"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think you devaluing his emotions and self esteem. He is still growing up and IMO he doesn't think well of himself. The only place he feels safe and accomplished, valued is in SW.<br><br>
If someone said surrogacy is stupid how would you feel. This is how your brother feels. I think I would work on finding ways that he can find a since of self accomplishment and self worth.<br><br><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/GadgetGuide/story?id=4243573&page=1" target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Gad...4243573&page=1</a></div>
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And I have never said gaming was STUPID.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mama2toomany</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419819"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I can actually argue a point though.. he can't.. he just says that its the same.. its not the same.<br><br>
He actually lives with my mom now, he doesn't pay rent, doesn't work, doesn't pay for the game, or any other bills. He is in school but very part time, its High school but he is in a special program and only has to go once a week.<br><br>
I honestly would feel the same if it was piano he was playing. If its taking up his whole life, it needs adjusting.</div>
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It really seems like it's time for your Mom to start putting some responsibilities on him. If not a job then chores and maybe some volunteer work. Especially if school is only once a week. He really does seem to have very little real world interaction.
 

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But to him, what you said was implying what he does it stupid. That is how he took your statement.<br><br>
Might not be what you meant (doubt it was) but that is how he took it.<br><br>
This is your brother, your mom is enabling it. Things will not change until she quits enabling it. As much as you hate it, you cannot parent your brother. Quit being the bossy big sister (how he sees it). Maybe be a friend. Invite him over. Have him along on trips to the park, et. Active involvement might help you see what he has socially isolated himself. It does not mean he is lazy.<br><br>
Don't critics what he loves.....wasting your time is criticizing. Magelet gave you a lot of good advice.
 

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You don't get it, and nothing you say is going to bring him around to your way of thinking. You aren't supporting him financially right? If not, it's really not your business. If you are, then quit giving him cash and a free roof.
 

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I think your best bet is to stay out of it. If he's not working and in school only once a week, this is probably his social life. I started to ask if he's making good grades, etc, but really you're not his mom and neither am I. I would just assume it's like any other hobby and if it's not getting in the way of school, I wouldn't pester him about it.
 

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I don't know. I don't really see a difference between online gaming and those people who have iPods in their ears 24 hours a day. The iPod people are just as, if not more, detached from the world. I mean, do you REALLY need to listen to music in the grocery store?<br><br>
I did know a couple in our last town who was really into gaming, and developed their own games and made a living off of it. I guess I don't see it as totally useless or dead-end!
 

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Sounds almost exactly like my brother (except mine's 28 and not even leaving the house to go to school once a week...).<br><br>
I've talked to my mom about enabling him, and I've previously had a few arguments with him about the lack of respect with which he treats mom. He pays no rent, contributes nothing, doesn't cook, clean or shop. His unemployment money goes directly to junk food and cigarettes (which he smokes all over my mom's house, even though she's a non-smoker..)<br><br>
I've ultimately had to accept that unhealthy as the situation is for both of them (and annoyed as it makes me!) I can't actually change them. If I keep harping on about it, all I'll do is end up alienating my mom and brother - then if they do decide to make a change I'll have pushed them away and they won't feel like they can turn to me for help to improve things.<br><br>
So, I just shut up and put up. Mom knows how I feel about the situation, and she knows she has my support if/when she decides to make a change. Bro knows how I feel about things too, and I have offered my help (to help him pick college courses, prep for interviews, etc.) so he knows he can turn to me if he wants.<br><br>
I hate it - I hate the fact that gaming has basically eaten him whole. But I know that he has a very addictive personality, and if it weren't this it would probably be something else. (Our dad is an alcoholic - would that be better or worse?) And from dealing with our dad I know that I can't do anything about the addict's addiction, nor can I interfere in others' co-dependent relationships.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Marsupialmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419884"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But to him, what you said was implying what he does it stupid. That is how he took your statement.<br><br>
Might not be what you meant (doubt it was) but that is how he took it.<br><br>
This is your brother, your mom is enabling it. Things will not change until she quits enabling it. As much as you hate it, you cannot parent your brother. Quit being the bossy big sister (how he sees it). Maybe be a friend. Invite him over. Have him along on trips to the park, et. Active involvement might help you see what he has socially isolated himself. It does not mean he is lazy.<br><br>
Don't critics what he loves.....wasting your time is criticizing. Magelet gave you a lot of good advice.</div>
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I guess you would need more backround on this.. I am not a bossy big sister to him, I am his mother in his eyes, That might be part of the problem, I adopted him when he was younger because my mom is just unfit to parent. He moved out a little while ago, because his life was so hard with rules.. Then he found out how hard the real world is and ran back to my mothers house, she is never going to put anything on him, shes not a parent. She is just a person he lives with. We live in different states now so its not a matter of spending time with him or asking him over, my door is always open, but why come back home, when you can sit and rot and do nothing of value at all.<br><br>
My whole point is that he is getting in a tizzy and ranting and raving like a game is real life. Its not. He should want to be a productive member of society, he is not a shy kid, not hiding, it is pure laziness. Why look for work when there is this game I can play, Why do anything, if its more fun to sit here and rot. He is very outgoing, when he lived here he had rules that he didn't like because he would have to get off his butt and do something. Now he is in a perfect little nook, no one to tell him what to do. He thinks this is being an adult.<br><br>
I was helping him out with cash for a couple of months until he started spending all day online, now I won't send him anything. He complained to me that he had to go to a food shelf to eat, that I should feel guilty, but I don't, If he would stop gaming he would get a job, and be able to pay his own way.<br><br>
I guess even if he was attempting to be productive, doing the dishes or something, then yes I would understand and feel better, but hes not interested in being a grown up.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Magelet</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15419704"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">-For the most part, all/most of the people on the game were fairly/very powerless in real life. The game was a place where we could feel powerful.</div>
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See, that's why LARP/renn faires/SCA are better than video games. Same things you described for video games, but out in the fresh air with some exercise.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/offtopic.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="offtopic"><a href="http://www.watchtheguild.com/" target="_blank">http://www.watchtheguild.com/</a> is funny.
 
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