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DH and I had a blowout last night over a wooden toy kitchen. It is likely to get worse before it gets better. I will try to explain the situation and give enough background for you to understand without injecting too much of my own opinion.<br><br>
About a year ago, I picked up a used wood kitchen that I wanted to fix up for DS. I had a fantasy that I would repaint it and outfit it with home-made playfood. It's <a href="http://www.unbeatablesale.com/chply164.html" target="_blank">this kitchen</a> - in decent shape, but needs freshening with paint and an nail or 2 to stop the top from wobbling.<br><br>
DH has a <i>thing</i> about used toys and clothing. Says that he, himself, would not wear or use used things, so why should DS? It's undignified. We have had ugly fights about this, as I am the one who acquires DS's clothes and most of his toys and quality used things do not bother me; I think they are practical.<br><br>
He (and I) also like a home without a lot of clutter. DS's toys are limited to a smaller room off the living room, and at any one time, I rotate at least half of them to boxes in the basement. DH put up a royal objection when I acquired <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=motheringhud-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FFunTable-Block-Table-32%2Fdp%2FB0015RTHUG%2Fref%3Dpd_sbs_t_29" target="_blank">this lego table</a> from a colleague whose brother was headed overseas. It stayed, but is only tolerated in the toyroom.<br><br>
So, DH and I had an argument about the play kitchen. I don't remember the exact timing of the argument - probably close to a year ago, but I did acquire the kitchen and stored it (for about a year) at a mutual friends' house in their large garage (They weren't lacking for space - it's a 3-car garage with a large attic above and they have no children, no toys, and some lawn equipment.) DH put his foot down with a clear "no" about the kitchen, but I don't remember if I had already purchased the kitchen when he said this. I thought I could fix it up, and we could re-visit the issue, as I really wanted to do this project. My plan was that if he continued to protest, I would put it in my work office as a place for DS to play when he comes to the office. My motivation for this was low, however, as DS rarely comes to work as frequently as he did a year ago. AND, I never had the time to fix up the kitchen, as I have other priorities around the house/home office. I still held it out in the back of my mind as a possibility. The other reason motivation remained low is that DS has wood play kitchens at daycare, and I don't feel the need to replicate toys at home that he has at daycare.<br><br>
Yesterday, the kitchen showed up in our driveway. I didn't lie about where it came from...I don't know if DH already knew about it, or if he had a conversation with his friend about it. I can't remember if I acquired it before or after we had the first blow-up about it (about a year ago).<br><br>
DH went nuts. He compared my acquisition of the kitchen (something he did not agree to - so in his mind, I did it behind his back) to the possibility of him taking DS out to get all his vaccinations (if he were to do it behind my back). "Something I disagree with you 100%," is what he said. We haven't fought about the vax issue in over a year, but DH is (100%, apparently) pro-vax. I am not 100% anti-vax, but I have great concerns, and I wish DH would read at least some of what gives me pause (Kirby's Evidence of Harm and Cave's What Your Doctor May Not Tell You...). He just refuses.<br><br>
He sees this kitchen as a huge betrayal of marital trust. Is it?<br><br>
I have already sent out several emails in attempt to get rid of the kitchen, but I even if it were gone when he got home from work, we still have the issue to deal with.<br><br>
Thank you for any insight.
 

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I don't see it as huge betrayal, but I'm more with you on the used stuff.<br><br>
However, I do have things I'm adamant about when it comes to our kids and if dh knew exactly how I felt and did something that went completely against it, I'd be upset. So I completely see his point. And the fact that you didn't tell him about it when you've had it for a year.<br><br>
To you, a used kitchen isn't a big deal, to him it is. Vaxing is a huge deal to you, not to him, so I get where he sees them as equal. I guess, is a wooden kitchen important enough to you to have your marriage in this place? As for where to go from here, I don't know, but I'd definitely discuss things like this beforehand in the future.
 

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It sounds like he is overreacting, and it sounds like he is being a bit on the controlling side. Is he controlling in general or do you typically make decisions equally? Also, I admit that I find it pretty ridiculous, and actually a bit morally repugnant, that he's opposed to used toys or clothes in good condition. I know we live in the land of American consumer culture, but that's way over the top. I grew up in a very financially comfortable family and we swapped hand-me-downs with tons of family friends.<br>
When you say that he went nuts, can you clarify a little bit? If he was being insulting or demeaning, I would have a huge problem with that. If he expressed himself appropriately, I would have less of a problem, and could see it being something you don't make a big deal of for the sake of keeping the piece.<br>
But no, it's nothing like vaccinating (and for the record, I actually do vaccinate my son.) Vaxes are a major decision that can have serious health implications for your child, while a toy kitchen is ... a toy kitchen.
 

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It's not a huge betrayal of trust because its, well, a toy kitchen. You get rid of it, it never takes up space in your house, your child never plays with it, there are no actual direct consequences or repercussions for anyone of you ever owning it (except for your friends who had it stuck in their garage for a year <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">)<br><br>
Personally, I think an objection to used items is ridiculous and at least slightly immoral, but that's neither here nor there. He told you he didn't want it, you let him think you accepted that, and then you went behind his back. Maybe you didn't outright lie to him, but you certainly misled him and hid something from him. I'd be pretty furious in that situation. He's clearly overreacting with his comparisons, but I do think you owe him an apology and an explanation of what you were thinking (i.e. I know you didn't want it but I thought I'd use it at work and then that just didn't pan out, etc).
 

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I think the comparison is a _little_ off (vax vs kitchen). But I can see your H's perspective. He probably feels that he caved a lot on a very important issue and it's upsetting that you won't respect his opinion on even this small thing.
 

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If you want it to go away, put a "free" sign on it an leave it at the curb... but that won't fix your problem<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Would the kitchen be ok if bought new, or is your husband against toys in general?<br><br>
You had to store (hide?) the kitchen at your friends house ... yikes! your husband is exhibiting very rigid thinking ... only new toys, only in one room. toys, unlike medical decisions, are reversible. if you find a toy is "wrong" for your child you can get rid of it (donate).<br><br>
try to find out the real issue here in his mind: too many projects? too much money spent at yard sales? too girly? lead paint risk? neighbors might see you buying used?<br><br>
most people do buy used for higher end toys, when possible. otherwise it gets expesnive.
 

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It sounds like it's not really about the kitchen at all. While I don't agree with your husband's view on used items, it's been very clear to you that it is a big deal to him. You know it's a big deal to him, you had a fight over the kitchen a year ago and were unwilling to compromise on it, although you didn't let him know this. He feels like you disrespected his wishes, which you did. Your actions told him that if you disagree with his opinion you feel it is ok to go behind his back and do how you please. You need to apologize for that.<br><br>
Somewhere in your relationship you two have made it so you feel that hiding the truth about your activities is preferable to honest communication. That's the real problem. You two need to work together. I think from what you have written you both want to. try to see things from his point of view, no matter how irrational it may seem to you.<br><br><br>
As far as the needing new things, there is a reason for this in his mind. Was it that he had a rough time growing up without money for new things? Or maybe something else? You may never change his mind completely but maybe you can come to an understanding
 

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I think your issues in your marraige go way beyond a wooden toy kitchen. Perhaps you should look past this one argument and focus more closely on the Big Picture.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Alyantavid</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440346"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't see it as huge betrayal, but I'm more with you on the used stuff.<br><br>
However, I do have things I'm adamant about when it comes to our kids and if dh knew exactly how I felt and did something that went completely against it, I'd be upset. So I completely see his point. And the fact that you didn't tell him about it when you've had it for a year.<br><br>
To you, a used kitchen isn't a big deal, to him it is. Vaxing is a huge deal to you, not to him, so I get where he sees them as equal. I guess, is a wooden kitchen important enough to you to have your marriage in this place? As for where to go from here, I don't know, but I'd definitely discuss things like this beforehand in the future.</div>
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I couldn't have said it better myself. I hope you two work it out soon <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ASusan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440228"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He sees this kitchen as a huge betrayal of marital trust. Is it?</div>
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In my house it would be. I mean, not like you cheated, but if I had done that to my dh, it would have been bad.<br><br>
If it was important enough to me to consider lying about it, it would have been important enough to come to an agreement about it with my husband.
 

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I don't believe the spouses should put up with unreasonable demands just because it's important to the other spouse. Your husband is being completely unreasonable, not mention controlling and ridiculous. How does a person avoid used items? Library books, rental cars, airplane seats, keyboards at work, etc. And as already mentioned, buying new for everything is immoral, bad for the environment, and very elitist. I don't get him at all and I wouldn't give into his rigid demands.
 

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I have no problem with buying used things, but my husband is strongly against it. He believes there are health issues involved, because one does not know by whom or how the used items were used i.e what if they were used in a meth house, or by someone with a contagious illness, etc. Toys and clothing that are used daily in the home are different from airplane seats and library books. Now, I may poo-poo his fears about that, but how is it really any different from your dh poo-pooing your fears about vax? The vast majority of children are vaxed without issues, so it's not a clearcut issue. Your stand on vax is just as unreasonable to him (and not just because he hasn't read about it, there are plenty of informed people who think it is unreasonable to not vax) as his stand on used items is to you.<br><br>
So although I think my dh's fears are groundless, I don't buy used items for our dd's use. It doesn't hurt anything -- at worst, dd has one less toy or dress -- and it is a way I can respect my husband's preferences. It comes in handy when I ask him to do the same for me -- say, the trampoline we got which he wasn't really comfortable with! (flame away! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">)<br><br>
I do agree with the poster who said the real issue isn't used vs. new, it's that you disregarded his strong feelings about the issue. And since the item in question is a toy kitchen that you never even got around to fixing up--i.e. not that important to you--it certainly doesn't seem like a battle worth fighting. Regardless of when you acquired it, I think that after the first blowup you should have told your dh about the kitchen and discussed what to do with it, instead of keeping it in hiding. I'm sure you didn't mean to hurt him, but it does sound to me that you were a little thoughtless. I could totally see me doing the same thing! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Thao</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440637"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">because one does not know by whom or how the used items were used i.e what if they were used in a meth house, or by someone with a contagious illness, etc.</div>
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Have you introduced him to Lysol? DH, antibacterial wipes, antibacterial wipes, DH. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
Im greatful my husband just bought a bunch of "new" clothes from Platos Closet the other day.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>springbabes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440631"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't believe the spouses should put up with unreasonable demands just because it's important to the other spouse.</div>
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You know what, I totally agree with this. You wanted to put the kitchen in your office, you DH has no right to tell you that you're not allowed or permitted to do that. Frankly, the whole situation leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ASusan</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440228"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have already sent out several emails in attempt to get rid of the kitchen, but I even if it were gone when he got home from work, we still have the issue to deal with.</div>
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So if you do manage to give away the kitchen, your husband doesn't get to belabor the point. It's taken care of. End of story. He needs to say thank you and that needs to be the end of it.<br>
I have this image stuck in my head -- and I don't know whether or not this is accurate -- of him coming home and berating you at length for "disobeying him." Which would just be revolting and gross.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>springbabes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440631"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't believe the spouses should put up with unreasonable demands just because it's important to the other spouse. Your husband is being completely unreasonable, not mention controlling and ridiculous. How does a person avoid used items? Library books, rental cars, airplane seats, keyboards at work, etc. And as already mentioned, buying new for everything is immoral, bad for the environment, and very elitist. I don't get him at all and I wouldn't give into his rigid demands.</div>
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The problem isn't about giving into demands, it's about communication, or lack thereof. As far as I can tell no one has advocated that she just allow him to control her. I advocate validating his feelings and opening up lines of communication, which I feel other posted suggested as well.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I do agree with the poster who said the real issue isn't used vs. new, it's that you disregarded his strong feelings about the issue and hid your purchase from him.</td>
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I agree.<br><br>
And I think, actually, that his example of vaccinations was very accurate. <i>You</i> view his opposition to used items as unreasonable. I do to, for that matter. But he doesn't, and he probably has a list of reasons and some thought put into his conclusion, probably more that it's been a point of contention for you. Some people, maybe your husband, view an anti-vax position as completely unreasonable. It would still be wrong of your husband to go behind your back and get your child vaxed if he thought your opposition to it was unreasonable an/or illogical. But that is what you did with regards to something that is important to him. Not a good solution to a conflict of opinions.<br><br>
To me this seems like a two-person problem that's going to require both of you to "give" a little and learn how to work issues like this out.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>springbabes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440631"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't believe the spouses should put up with unreasonable demands just because it's important to the other spouse.</div>
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The problem with this is, who gets to decide what is "unreasonable"? That's a pretty subjective term.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Barbie64g</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440650"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Have you introduced him to Lysol? DH, antibacterial wipes, antibacterial wipes, DH. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></div>
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I tried, but his feelings on the issue aren't really rational <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">. Which is okay, I firmly believe we all have some irrational requirements when it comes to our kids. I should mention also that there are cultural issues involved too. I used to teach a class to students who came from all different countries, and many of them were horrified at the thought of used items for children.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>springbabes</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15440631"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't believe the spouses should put up with unreasonable demands just because it's important to the other spouse.</div>
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wait-- i thought that was the definition of marriage?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
I really think that the op could have been more compassionate to her husband. DH and I had a similar argument when I was pregnant with DS-- we have lots of used things, but DH was really uncomfortable with the idea of used clothing. We went 'round and round about it, and one point he may have given a halfhearted go ahead. I went ahead and bought a few outfits, brought them home and washed them and showed them to DH... and his face just fell, and he said DW, I just can't do it.<br><br>
I feel at this point I could have started a fight with him (again), but instead I thought about how he must feel, and how he wanted our son to have the best. Not something that I totally agreed with or saw the logic of, but I at least respected his feelings.<br><br>
So I donated all those clothes. I know that DH was greatful to me for letting it go just because it was important to him.<br><br>
FWIW, All DS clothes are brand new, but he has very, very few-- maybe 6-7 onsies, and 2-3 pairs of pants in each size. DH did the laundry daily for the first few months.
 

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I often hear the sentiment that the person who thinks something is a big deal should have some leeway.<br><br>
So the question is, how big of a deal is it to you that your kid gets used stuff? Honest question. For me, I could live without having DD have used stuff BUT, as an environmentalist, I would not feel right unless we also agreed that DD didnt get loads of new plastic crap either. So basically the compromise would be that we would be minimalists, we'd buy new wooden toys and not a lot.<br><br>
I do feel there is value in getting used toys and also fixing up used things, those are values I'd like to teach my children. But I guess I'm saying that I could live without it if it was a BIG DEAL to my husband that we forgo anything used. Honestly I don't see his point of view at all (does he refuse to live in a "used" house? good quality things passed along are better than new, poor quality things) but I would apply the "big deal" rule to this. I'd apologize for breaking his trust, and pass along the kitchen to someone else. But I'd also feel free to insist that the stuff we DID buy would be of the type and quality that I was comfortable with, and I'd be sure to pass them along when we were done with them.
 
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