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I am currently in a conversation with a mom on another board about spanking. Of course, I'm one of the only ones who is anti spanking! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
I know, why am I on another board? I should know better! But, I write a pregnancy blog for this site and occassionally I monitor the message boards, but rarely post. When I saw this spanking thread, I just couldn't help myself and "had" to open my big, fat mouth. I figure any lurkers really need to hear the opposing view, even though I'm sure I won't change any minds among the pro spanking posters.<br><br>
Anyway, this mom is now throwing "research" out there in support of spanking showing that no lasting harm is done. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I am looking for my own research to counter her argument. If anyone has any links or statistics, info etc to add to the discussion, please let me know.<br><br>
Oh yeah, ALL POINTS OF VIEW ARE REQUESTED AND WELCOME!<br>
Thanks!
 

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Off the top of my head, there's the AAP statement.<br><br>
You could also go through Unconditional Parenting and look up his sources. Most are about punishment/reward systems I think, but some are about spanking.
 

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There is one simple fact: Spanking is not necessary. So why do it. I am suer she does not WANT to spank but believes that it is the only thing that "works." If you are looking for your children to be "well behaved" other gentler methods will actually work better, and will produce children as "obediant" and more honest!<br><br>
Point her to the works of Anthony Wolf. The subtitle of his book "The Secret of Parenting" is <b>"How to be in Charge of kids today"</b><br><br>
That is Pretty "tought stuff" huh? But it is done without spanking bribes or rewards (or even much punishment).<br><br>
Challenge her to try it.
 

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I would be very interested in seeing the "research" to which she's referring, because ASAIK, all the reseach on the topic clearly demonstrates that spanking makes children (1) more aggressive and (2) more "defiant"/less "compliant" over time.
 

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The sticky at the top of this forum is full of stuff:<br><br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=231751" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=231751</a>
 

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- "Spanking in the home and children's subsequent aggression toward kindergarten peers."<br>
- Strassberg, Zvi; Dodge, Kenneth A; Pettit, Gregory S; Bates, John E.<br>
- Development and Psychopathology. Vol 6(3) Sum 1994, 445-461.<br>
- Examined the relation between maternal and parental spanking and other physical punishment (PN) practices and children's subsequent aggression (AG) toward peers, while controlling for SES. Ss were 273 children entering kindergarten and their parents. Parental PN behavior over the preceding 12 mo was assessed using a modified version of the Conflict Tactics Scales. Approximately 6 mo after parental assessment, direct observations were made of children's AG toward peers. Findings are consistent with a model of socialization in which parental use of physical PN is positively correlated with children's subsequent AG toward peers. Spanked children showed AG toward peers more than nonspanked children but less than children with violent parents.<br><br>
- "Corporal punishment by parents and associated child behaviors and experiences: A meta-analytic and theoretical review."<br>
- Gershoff, Elizabeth Thompson.<br>
- Psychological Bulletin. Vol 128(4) Jul 2002, 539-579.<br>
- Although the merits of parents using corporal punishment to discipline children have been argued for decades, a thorough understanding of whether and how corporal punishment affects children has not been reached. Toward this end, the author first presents the results of meta-analyses of the association between parental corporal punishment and 11 child behaviors and experiences. Parental corporal punishment was associated with all child constructs, including higher levels of immediate compliance and aggression and lower levels of moral internalization and mental health. The author then presents a process-context model to explain how parental corporal punishment might cause particular child outcomes and considers alternative explanations. The article concludes by identifying 7 major remaining issues for future research.<br><br>
- "Parenting practices and child disruptive behavior problems in early elementary school."<br>
- Stormshak, Elizabeth A; Bierman, Karen L; McMahon, Robert J; Lengua, Liliana J; Conduct Problems Prevention Research Group.<br>
- Journal of Clinical Child Psychology. Vol 29(1) Mar 2000, 17-29.<br>
- Examined the hypothesis that distinct parenting practices may be associated with type and profile of a child's disruptive behavior problems (e.g., oppositional, aggressive, hyperactive). Parents of 631 behaviorally disruptive 1st graders described the extent to which they experienced warm and involved interactions with their children and the extent to which their discipline strategies were inconsistent and punitive and involved spanking and physical aggression. As expected from a developmental perspective, parenting practices that included punitive interactions were associated with elevated rates of all child disruptive behavior problems. Low levels of warm involvement were particularly characteristic of parents of children who showed elevated levels of oppositional behaviors. Physically aggressive parenting was linked more specifically with child aggression. In general, parenting practices contributed more to the prediction of oppositional and aggressive behavior problems than to hyperactive behavior problems, and parenting influences were fairly consistent across ethnic groups and sex.<br><br>
- "Impulsive corporal punishment by mothers and antisocial behavior and impulsiveness of children."<br>
- Straus, Murray A; Mouradian, Vera E.<br>
- Behavioral Sciences & the Law. Vol 16(3) Sum 1998, 353-374.<br>
- Examined whether corporal punishment (CP), such as spanking or slapping a child for purposes of correcting misbehavior, and impulsiveness of CP is associated with antisocial behavior (ASB) and impulsiveness by the child. The data were obtained through interviews with 933 mothers (mean age 37 yrs) of children aged 2-14 yrs. Results indicated that the more CP experienced by the child, the greater the tendency for the child to engage in ASB and to act impulsively. These relationships hold even after controlling for family SES, the age and sex of the child, nurturance by the mother, and the level of noncorporal interventions by the mother. When CP was carried out impulsively, it was most strongly related to child impulsiveness and ASB; when CP was done when the mother was under control, the relationship to child behavior problems was reduced but still present. In view of the fact that there is a high risk of losing control when engaged in CP, even by parents who are not usually impulsive, and the fact that impulsive CP is so strongly associated with child behavior problems, this study suggests that CP is an important risk factor for children developing a pattern of impulsive and antisocial behavior which, in turn, may contribute to the level of violence and other crime in society.<br><br>
- "A correlational analysis of parental conflict resolution practices and 4- and 5-year-old children's interpersonal problem-solving skills and verbal abilities in a preschool setting."<br>
- Hall, Elizabeth Christine.<br>
- Dissertation Abstracts International Section A: Humanities and Social Sciences. Vol 55(12-A), Jun 1995, pp. 3785.<br>
- A variety of physical and verbal intervention techniques exist for use with children. Caregivers frequently rely on aggressive modes such as physical punishment; however, the immediate impact of these practices on young children's interpersonal problem solving and language is unknown. The intent of this research was to assess the relationship between the resolution tactics of parents and the interpersonal problem-solving skills and verbal abilities of children, and to investigate the confounding influence of family income and gender on the relationship. Guiding this research was the thesis that the resolution tactics used by a primary caregiver provide a model of problem-solving for the recipient child. Physically aggressive tactics, such as spanking or slapping, rely minimally on the use of positive effective language as a problem-solving mode and maximally on aggressive means. Tactics using reasoning emphasize the use of language as a problem-solving strategy. Data were collected on 43 upper-income families, including 70 caregivers and 41 male and female preschool students. Measures included the Conflict Tactics Scale, the Test of Early Language Development-2, the Behavioral Interpersonal Problem-Solving test, the Standardized Critical Situations test, and a demographics questionnaire. Data were analyzed using Spearman and Pearson correlations. Statistically significant results revealed that children whose parents use physically aggressive means of conflict resolution were more aggressive and negative in their own problem solving. When parents used verbally oriented tactics, children generated more object obtainment solutions. No statistically significant relationships were noted between parents' tactics and children's language abilities or between language and problem solving. Confounding variables of gender and income had no effect on the relationships. Descriptive analysis showed that girls used positive verbal approaches to problem solving and boys used non.
 

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Ummm.....you can't effectively debate logic with someone making emotional decisions.<br><br>
There is the NoSpank.net site and The Center for Effective Discipline and WalkinginJesusFootsteps and Nohitting.com web sites. You also might check The Natural Child Project. I believe Jan Hunt may have some documentation. But I'd see the Effective Discipline site first. And Jan Hunt next.<br><br>
You might PM HappyHomeschooler. She has done a lot of work with the Christian right to move toward Grace Based Discipline and "non-punitive" discipline but still expecting obedience.<br><br>
Pat
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I wanted to thank all of you for the great information. I found the AAP position statement and will use these ideas. I know I should just back out of it because its a losing situation, but I just can't. I guess I feel a responsibility to any lurkers or undecided people to effectively articulate the other side. I'd hate to think a mommy would think spanking is ok, with only the pro spanking side being shown.
 

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I agree, to stand silent (figuratively) in a public place confurs assent for the public opinion promoting violence. "Good job". <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
I truely believe that every individual's dissent against violence matters. Every child's and every adult's. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
Pat
 

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I'm sure it's covered in the links, but don't see any specific mention here of how spanking can mess with sexual development. It sometimes arouses sexual feelings in children. Might be another thing to look into. Good luck. Hope the conversation has improved!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Dal</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm sure it's covered in the links, but don't see any specific mention here of how spanking can mess with sexual development. It sometimes arouses sexual feelings in children. Might be another thing to look into. Good luck. Hope the conversation has improved!</div>
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Yes, the NoSpank.net site has many articles and criminal charges related to caregivers spanking for sexual pleasure. <a href="http://www.nospank.net/101.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nospank.net/101.htm</a><br><br>
Pat
 

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I know this is an old thread but I am having the same problem as the original poster.<br><br>
I've been discussing corporal punishment in another forum and obviously the majority condone it, I am now looking for info (I know I saw it somewhere) relating corporal punishment and children's willingness to submit to other adults, which of course make them easier targets for pedophiles.<br><br>
If anyone could direct to any study of this I'd greatly appreciate it.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>writermommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/4438521"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I figure any lurkers really need to hear the opposing view, even though I'm sure I won't change any minds among the pro spanking posters.<br><br>
!</div>
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Don't be so sure of this! I spent about a year posting on a mainstream board where the majority support hitting kids. I encountered many people who just hadn't really ever challenged the practice of hitting kids. Also, I received several PMs from people who told me that I'd changed their minds (former spankers).<br><br>
I actually think that the internet is a great place to educate around non-violence. Not only is there the potential to plant a seed and get regular posters thinking, but mainstream boards tend to have tons of lurkers. This is a great place to get the word out!<br><br>
Even at MDC, when I first suggested a GD smilie, one of the responses was "it's assumed that no one here supports spanking." But I happen to know of several posters (whose privacy I would never violate) here who not only spank but who argue vigorously in support of it on other boards. So I think education here is important too.
 

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Anti-spanking,<br>
I am not sure - but I think I saw in one of Alfie Kohn's books (maybe the "unconditional parenting"?) something about punishment ( do not know if he also mentioned specifically 'corporal') and a link towards children reacting with non prejudicial compliance to any "authority" figure.
 
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