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Discussion Starter #221
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>peaceful_mama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15143063"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I've followed this a little bit and I think it is *awesome* that you have come across something that is working for you! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"><br><br>
I wanted to say that a lot of the things I read in college (EC/SPED major, unfinished, long story) advocate exactly what you are doing, for children in general, but *especially* for those who are more agressive/expressive with their anger than most. Setting up an area where they can go to 'cool down' WITH ACTIVITIES THAT HELP THEM DO THAT. And beginning by taking them there when you see they need it.<br><br>
I think it's a HUGE sign you are on the right track if he is taking *himself* there! And I am going to 'steal' this idea for dd, age 3, who is starting to throw things and slam doors. Like you said, it is much better for me to find a way to help both of us calm down than it is for me to get angry and end up yelling and/or hitting. (And it DOES DOES DOES address the behavior in the fact that you are not allowing the behavior to continue. That's the mantra I'm using on myself "I am NOT allowing the behavior to continue. I AM doing my job.")</div>
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Hi Peaceful Mama:<br><br>
Thanks for your supportive words! I definitely find myself second guessing everything all the time, like "Is having him sit on the bed and read books really a good enough consequence for him punching me?" but I keep saying, over and over, <b>"If this is going to make him calm down and act appropriately, this is a good choice. If this is going to prevent me from screaming at him and dragging him across the floor to a time out where I have to physically restrain him, this is a good choice."</b> The hard thing with my son is that things will work for a while, sometimes even brilliantly, then stop working.<br><br>
Unfortunately, I haven't figured out how this will work in public. We actually had a horrible incident yesterday at the park. On Fridays, my parents usually come and pick my son up and bring him back on Saturdays. He loves being at their house and has lots of fun galavanting around in nature, but he hates transitions, especially leaving me. I picked him up from school yesterday (preschool, I should say), and since it was really nice, we got some take out dinner and went to the park. I always take EVERY opportunity to have him outside, as he could exercise ten hours a day and not be tired! He was really happy about this idea, as he always is with any outside activity. We got to the park, ate, and then he played for a few minutes (10-15) and the sun started going down.<br><br>
Suddenly, massive clouds of mosquitoes descended on us. The other parents and I were all complaining, and each person had LITERALLY 15-20 mosquitoes covering their bodies. It was disgusting. In the midst of this, my parents arrived, and my dad said, "We are not staying out here! We have to get out of these mosquitoes!" I agreed and said we should go. None of us wanted to be getting bit a million times, and I already had welts all over the place. But my son is NOT good with transitions, and this transition not only meant that he had to leave the park immediately, but that leaving the park also meant going with grandma and grandpa and leaving mommy because they had met us there to pick him up.<br><br>
Immediately he said, "I don't want to go" (or I should say "screamed" instead of "said") and burst into tears. I got down on his level, hugged him, and said, "I know you don't want to go, honey, but these mosquitoes are biting us, and we can't stay out here! Also, it's getting dark!" He just screamed and cried and said no and was definitely in hitting mode, so I decided to do the "We're going to the car" and just walk towards the car. Usually he will scream and cry (of course prompting everyone to look at me and give me those "Wow! Control your child!" looks) but he will still follow me.<br><br>
This time he went running off in the opposite direction, towards the road, towards a very steep hill, screaming and crying. I followed him over there, and he was just completely and totally, insanely, out of his mind--screaming, crying, and just flat out hysterical. My dad had stormed off in anger, saying "I am not going to deal with this! This is ridiculous!" and my mom had followed me over there by my son. But when I made a comment to her under my breath, where my son <span style="text-decoration:underline;">couldn't hear</span>, that "This is not normal! This is so embarrassing. How am I ever going to find a boyfriend who'd put up with this???" because I was just frustrated and upset, she said she would walk away too if I didn't stop talking like that. (I love how I am 36 years old and still get punished by my parents!) I tried talking to my son, but he was too out of his mind to listen. I tried holding him, but he was too out of control to not hurt me. We waited for a few minutes to see if he would calm down, and then I just picked him up perpendicular to my body (so he couldn't hit me) and carried him to the car while he fought me. We just had to get out of those mosquitoes!<br><br>
It was ugly and embarrassing and just awful. Both my parents were mad at me, which never makes sense. What am I supposed to do? I put my son in the car and got in the back seat with him, trying to calm him down, and my mom stormed off, having her own temper tantrum. My dad was sitting in the car and trying to talk to my son, but he would just scream back at him. It was not good at all. And of course I don't want to leave my son on that note!<br><br>
He did finally calm down and then it was time for me to leave. He was sort of ok, but my mom said he was extremely angry when they pulled away from my car and pushed her hand away as she tried to pat him.<br><br>
It's in these sorts of situations that I really second guess myself. Usually transitions like this where he's doing something he enjoys, like playing at the park, work well. Unfortunately, due to the mosquitoes, we couldn't make a smooth, slow, and calm transition. It seems like there really isn't anything we could have done differently. I thought about saying, "Why don't we go back to our house or go out to eat?" so my son could have a bit more time with me before he had to leave, but I knew my parents would be really angry about that idea. They would feel like it was a big hassle to have to drive across town to our apartment or to a restaurant and think it was ridiculous to not just leave the park, so I didn't even bring up that idea.<br><br><b>I hate feeling like I am. . . . . I don't know what the right word is. . . . . acting so apologetic towards him, or almost like I am letting his anger control me, or like I am cowering in fear, in the midst of his tantrum because I am trying to get him to calm down. I feel weak, like I am accepting what he is doing.</b> Part of me feels like saying, "<span style="text-decoration:underline;">Look, this is NOT acceptable. We are leaving the park right now, and you knock it off. I will not put up with this behavior.</span>" But I know that won't change anything. It also didn't change anything to try to sympathize with him or explain the situation. It was just hideous.<br><br>
Any ideas about what I could have done differently in this situation? Or was it just destined to be crappy because of those damn mosquitoes? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">
 

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Discussion Starter #222
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pianojazzgirl</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15145861"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hi Bisou,<br><br>
I've followed your thread from the beginning. I guess I haven't posted yet because I felt like I have no real advice or insight. But I certainly have been thinking of you guys, even to the point of lying awake in bed the other night trying to brainstorm ideas for you to help your son calm down (this after reading one of your posts when he was basically saying "please help me find a way to calm down - I don't know how to do it myself"). I have to say that your new approach to time outs seems like it just might be exactly what he needs. I know you're feeling some doubt about it so I wanted to (finally!) post to support you in what you're doing. You are a fantastic, amazing, awe-inspiring mama. This will certainly sound banal, but: keep up the good work!</div>
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Hi Pianojazzgirl:<br><br>
Thanks so much for saying hello. As I've already said several times before, it just amazes me that I have such great support from people I've never even met. It means so much!!!!! I can't believe that you were lying in bed thinking about ways to help us. That is just so kind. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
Knowing that there are people out there thinking about us, worrying about us, praying for us, and hoping the best for us really does renew my faith in humanity. While there may be some awful people in the world, and I've certainly come across my share in the last year or two, you guys remind me that there are lots of loving, caring, patient, generous people too. Thanks for that! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/joy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="joy">
 

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Discussion Starter #223
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>fbsurvivor</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15150007"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">You're doing great, especially considering the horrible background you came from. One thing I noticed about my husband (who has a temper), from day one of my high needs baby, was that he heard all of my dd's screams as anger, but I didn't. I always remember that my daughter, no matter what she is doing or saying, is only an innocent child and has little idea of what she is doing or saying. Maybe some kind of mantra like that could help you when you're really feeling angry. Also, underneath most anger is fear, so it might sound like anger, but really he's afraid. One last thing. I come from a negative environment and find it really hard to say positive things, so you may as well.</div>
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This is a really good observation and reminder. I was my parents' first child, and I know my mother had a hard time with me. I didn't want to breastfeed and would push her away, and she's told me many times that she interpreted this as me hating her and not wanting her for a mother. I've said, "But I was an infant! Infants don't hate people!!!" To this day she resents me for my behavior as an infant and a young child and will say, "You never liked me, from the time you were born!" It's so ridiculous, but looking back on my son's earlier months, I can see how those feelings seeped into my thoughts as well. He went through a terrible phase from 12-18 months where he was splitting my lips open and giving me black eyes on a regular basis by throwing himself backwards and slamming his head into my face. After the first few times, I would think, "Why does he want to hurt me? Why does he hate me? I don't get it!" because it seemed like he must hate me; otherwise, why would he do something like that? I'd try to remind myself that he was a baby and too young to even understand that concept, but I definitely started thinking he didn't like me.<br><br>
It's hard now, too, because he can follow up his hurtful physical actions with hurtful words. He is constantly telling me he hates me, I am fat, I am ugly, I am the worst mom ever. I always had these visions of my child looking up at me with love in his eyes saying, "Mommy, you are so beautiful!" Many children find their mothers beautiful even if popular opinion would consider them ordinary or even unattractive. It's one of the beautiful things about kids. Unfortunately, my son hasn't reached that stage yet.<br><br>
It's a good reminder that his anger is often about fear. I know he hates leaving me, and I don't blame him. He's faced a lot of scary things in his four years, including two incidents of daycare abuse and someone basically trying to get into our house to kill and/or torture us. I am sure the world seems like a scary, unsafe place for him. It's just hard that it is directed at me, like I am the hated, evil culprit, and I try soooo hard to make his life happy, fun, and joyful. I just do need to remember that IT'S NOT ABOUT ME. He doesn't hate me. He doesn't want to hurt me. He's just scared, and rightly so.<br><br>
Thanks for the reminders. Maybe I need to make a little list and post it somewhere so I can read through it when he gets out of control, like "He doesn't hate you, he is just scared. He has been through a lot. Stay calm so you can help him be calm." I should do that today!!!<br><br>
Thanks again for the great post.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>debe</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15151685"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And this opinion that I have is likely no help: I feel that your situation illustrates quite well the lack of real respect and support that mothers and children receive in North America. I find myself - especially of late being a single mom of a 3 year old with all that that implies- that most of our problems with aggression and anger and tantrums, etc. would be rather successfully managed if I could just be mom- I mean not have to rely on daycare- not have to do everything to some schedule rather than take the time needed to work out a fear or a clingy response- not have to worry about losing my employment or my home-I do not know if I am being clear, but mom work is so hard sometimes- well all of the time but sometimes it is so very challenging- even without the added stress that you have experienced so much of lately. I really wish you were able to take a few years just to be a mom- Yeah i know it is fantasy - but I do wish there was a safety net for mothers and children---</div>
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<b>Oh my God, I agree with you SOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!</b><br><br>
I really feel like mothers/parents, especially single parents, really aren't supported at all in this society, especially when it comes to childcare options. I think while some kids do well, and even thrive, in daycare settings, others suffer.<br><br>
I do feel guilty that my son faced two different incidents of abuse, one very serious, in a daycare setting. I always planned to have children and work out a schedule with my spouse where one of us could work during the day and the other at night or weekends, so we could take care of our kids ourselves. Finding myself pregnant and single wasn't part of my plans!<br><br>
Now I know there are great, caring daycare providers out there, but it can really be the luck of the draw. Every place my son went to, I carefully screened, including checking with the state for complaints, posting online, showing up unannounced, and interviewing parents whose children attended there. I did everything you're "supposed to do," but it still turned out ugly for my son.<br><br>
I think part of the problem is that childcare is SO expensive, so you're often left with leaving your children in a place where the providers are undereducated (often 18, 19 years old) and paid minimum wage. Even then, parents are often paying $1,000 a month. I am getting all political here, but it seems like if people are so concerned about poor quality childcare and children having all these behavioral problems, maybe our government needs to subsidize childcare so it can be high quality, given by educated providers (with at least an AA in early childhood ed), yet affordable for parents. Other countries do this!<br><br>
Instead our country prefers, in many cases, to blame single mothers as the cause of all of our nation's problems with children. Really we have little option, other than work and put our kids in childcare, sit at home in poverty and on Welfare, or live with family (which isn't even an option for some people). It would be great if workplaces that had more than a certain number of employees were required to provide on-site, high quality childcare (even if employees had to pay a portion) where moms could go on lunch breaks and breastfeed, play with their kids, and check on them. There are so many things that we could do to improve this situation when it comes to kids and parents.<br><br>
I was really reluctant to put my son in daycare when he was young. I stayed home with him for the first three months, then went back to work when he was 3-6 months old and left him with a nanny, a personal friend I had known for years. She was wonderful, but when she decided to go back to school when my son was six months, I looked at daycares and left each one of them crying. I felt like I was visiting orphanages. It was just heart breaking! I decided to move in with my parents, and we lived there from the time he was six months old to the age of two years old. I loved spending that time with him, but living with my parents was hell. My career was also going into the toilet as I could only teach a class or two, I couldn't afford medical insurance nor could I qualify for state-sponsored insurance because I made just over the max income, and I was slowly losing all my friends, so I had to move back to Portland and work full time. I thought that my son was old enough to do well in daycare and even enjoy it, but only four months into it, a daycare worker at a large chain daycare intentionally injured his testicles by probably twisting them (according to the doctor's assessment and mine) as some sort of sick punishment or something, removing a good portion of the skin and causing massive swelling in the process. She was 18 years old, inexperienced and immature. It's possible that my son was fighting a diaper change or hit her and she retaliated, but we will never know exactly what happened. Of course nothing he could have done would make something that horrific warranted or acceptable. My son said, "The teacher hit my penis." I just hope that she has to live with the memory of what she did to him, and that it haunts her for the rest of her life.<br><br>
These are such hard decisions that single mothers and even some couples must face. Many single mothers/fathers don't have a choice to stay at home with their kids, and single parents often can't afford the kind of care they wish they could for their kids. Even when they can afford an expensive daycare, as I could, this is no guarantee of anything! I think somehow our society needs to change their views of how we treat children. The way they are treated and raised affects their entire lives. I will never know how my son might be different had he not faced the abuse he's faced.<br><br>
It really seems like this is something our country needs to address, but many people take the view of "Well, YOU decided to have children. Why should I have to take care of them?" I get so tired of hearing this "Every man for himself" philosophy applied to everything from health care to insurance to child raising. Don't people realize that we all live in this world together and if someone's child is damaged, we all pay the price?<br><br>
I used to live in a neighborhood with many single mothers. One of the mothers would go to work and leave her three-year-old son alone, or sometimes in the care of his ten-year-old sister. Another young child, around eight, was left alone all night while her mom went to work. I became a surrogate mom to the three-year-old, who would often come outside wearing only underwear, no clothes or shoes. I'd watch him and play with him and my son, and when we had to go inside for the night, he would cry, and it would break my heart. I don't agree with the decisions that these mothers made, but I also know that the expense of daycare is overwhelming for many parents. Who knows, maybe she thought her kids were better off alone than in the care of strangers, but I don't know that I'd agree that is logical.<br><br>
As you can tell, this definitely hits a nerve for me. I really wish our nation would address this problem and not just blame single mothers for having children. These kids will be our future and we need to nurture, love, and protect them. I often think of how children are raised in primitive tribes. There is no separation between family and work. Children surround their parents as they go about their daily tasks. It would be so wonderful if somehow our society could shift to allow the lines between family and work to blur just a tiny bit. I've heard of some workplaces allowing new mothers to have their babies in a crib right in their cubicle. While part of me wonders how they'd really get much done, I still think this is wonderful. I'd bet our children would feel much better if they could be closer to us, even going to work with us where they knew we were just a hallway's walk away. I bet this would improve the caregivers' attitudes too, knowing that parents could drop in at a moment's notice.<br><br>
Ok, enough daydreaming about a world with ideal (or more ideal) childcare. Heck, it would be great too if moms could be paid to stay home and raise their kids, but I know the chances of that happening are more than one in a trillion, so I will just set my sites on improved childcare, for now. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
Phew. And some of you guys think you are long-winded!!!
 

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What I see in the park incident:<br><br>
Your son needs comforting and empathy. I would try more questions, asking what he feels and what he wants, and what's going on with him.<br><br>
Your parents are toxic and you need to ignore their parenting ideas and stick to your guns.<br><br>
Forget about trying to control your son.
 

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Sorry, that sounded kind of curt. Your father reminds me of mine (and brought of some painful feelings from my childhood) and it's exactly the opposite of what your son needs. If you're sensitive and emotional, you need your feelings validated, not negated. Especially if that is the only male figure in your son's life, you need to get your son away from your parents. Your son needs to feel that his feelings are important and that someone cares. You have to see beyond his behavior and find out what he is feeling. The behavior is just a reaction to the feeling. If you have a good therapist, they would tell you this.<br><br><br>
I totally recommend Naomi Aldort's book, Raising Our Children and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber.<br><br>
The fact that you're recognizing the stuff about transitions is fabulous!<br><br>
What I learned in some of the books I read is: 1. validate and empathize- "I know this is frustrating, makes you angry, you're probably feeling..." 2. invite cooperation- The goal is not control, but to get the child to want to cooperate with you. 3. Never get into a power struggle- that means prevention at all costs.<br><br>
In the park incident, although it seemed really fast, there was still plenty of time to give him a long explanation and possibly give him some choices. Example: We can go right now, or you can run around for 5 more minutes. You can also ask him, "We're all geting bitten by bugs, what do you think we should do about it?" It's also about empowering the kid.<br><br>
With your parents I really think that you have to set the rules about how you want your kid treated, and if your parents won't go along with it, they're going to have to be cut out of the picture. I really think your son's emotional health is at stake, especially considering the stuff you describe your parents doing to you as a kid.<br><br>
I also want to say that I SO agree with you about daycare, and everyman for himself. Being a working mom with a husband is not as hard as being a single mom, but it's still really hard. I cried when I looked at daycares as well. Luckily I didn't have to go with 18 year olds and we went with what the daycare providers' kids were like. There is just no support for moms these days. I know I feel like an island so much of the time.
 

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I wanted to agree with fbsurvivor, in regard to your parents. would they go into counseling with you? seems like there is just too much baggage there to ignore, and I would either insist on family counseling or, if you can, just have a massive heart to heart discussion with them about what you know your son needs, and how they are going to have to either support you or you won't be able to be around them. there is so much guilt and manipulation going on in your family, and that has to be really hard for your son. your parents sound wonderful in a lot of ways, and very supportive of you in the obvious ways, but emotionally, they're not, and that needs to change.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><br><br>
oh, and things like the mosquito incident just happen sometimes with volatile kids, don't get too upset. I might have suggested to my parents that they could go wait in the car, that we'd be over in a minute, and then do a calmer transition with your son without all the intense baggage that's going on between you and your parents. kids pick up on that stuff -- my son is always CRAZY around my parents until we all relax a little. thanks, buddy! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> I try to keep in mind that my parents are not exactly experts, and their opinion of how I'm parenting is totally irrelevant to my life. it's hard to get there, but get there if you can, it feels great! it is so tempting, when we're parenting in front of judgemental individuals, to DO something about our child's problem behaviors -- something obvious that will show everyone how IN CONTROL of the situation we are. that is not what kids need, though, they need to be treated with respect and guidance -- we are the parents and we are "in charge", but we can guide them and help them gently when they struggle -- you don't have to be a doormat or a dictator, you can simply be his mom, and help him figure out this crazy world.<br><br>
I know it's incredibly difficult, but try not to follow the popular line of thinking that "if he's like this NOW, just IMAGINE what he's going to be like at 13!!" ...in my experience, children get MORE mature as they grow, not less. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> yes, the pre-teen and teen years can be nutso for lots of kids, but trying to gain control of your son is not the answer. teaching him how to control himself is key, and it sounds like you're doing just that. many hugs to you, you're doing amazing work here. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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I am so sorry for all the troubles you have had, you are doing a wonderful job! I want to reccomend the book "Raising the Spirited Child", it helps me to look at the challenging behaviors that my son has in a more positive way! Hang in there!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Bisou</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15152754"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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But when I made a comment to her under my breath, where my son <span style="text-decoration:underline;">couldn't hear</span>, that "This is not normal! This is so embarrassing. How am I ever going to find a boyfriend who'd put up with this???" because I was just frustrated and upset, she said she would walk away too if I didn't stop talking like that.</div>
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See, to me it *is* perfectly normal. And there *isn't* much you can do. You can't reason because he's so upset. He has to be un-upset first to understand the leaving logic, which in this case meant out of the bugs. Take him out of the bugs, then let him be upset, then talk and get to feel better and have a better transition. Which probably wouldn't work with the parents, but do they want an upset kid for 90 minutes? You and they can't expect him not to be upset- that's not fair. He's upset, that's real. You can move him then talk. Doesn't matter than other kids wouldn't be upset- don't compare.
 

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Wow.. what a tremendous response to you Bisou from all the wonderful women online.<br><br>
As I was reading through your post, my 18 year old daughter was sitting beside me, reading right along.<br><br>
She said..wow.. that is what it was like when I was younger.<br><br>
YUP.. it was.<br><br>
I have come out the other side of what you are going through now, at least with her. I have 4 kids, and my youngest, who is now 6 is also a firecracker. lol.<br><br><br>
Here are some things that I did to keep me sane when years ago..when I my (now 18 yr old) was young. ...<br><br>
1.. I read EVERYTHING I could get my hands on.. many of the titles that you have been suggested to read..<br><br>
Positive Discipline<br>
Raising Your Spirited Child<br>
The Dr. Sears Parenting books series<br>
Your Explosive Child<br>
Love and Anger ( by Nancy Samalin)<br>
Books by Barbara Coloroso<br>
and many more.<br><br>
I also used homeopathic remedies. Chamomila is a classic remedy for kids who hurl things and are really angry.<br><br>
However, when I took her to a Classical Homeopath,we discovered her constitutional remedy was different. We went to the homeopath for many years.. and I think that helped so much.<br><br>
We also had a punching bag in the house.. helped both her and I . whew.<br>
( when I got angry.. or frustrated, I was able to take it out on the punching bag.. it felt nice! )<br><br>
I also learned how to 'read' the situation better. Knowing that we were going to make a transition from one place to another, I would give advance notice, but that rarely helped.. but I did it anyways. I don't remember the preemptive things I did to stop the behaviour.. there was not much to do... she was going to be her.. no matter what I did or said. NO threats, or punishments, or else's or anything I would try would be good. I was not in the frame of mind in those days to be in a loving space when she had her meltdowns.. the best I could do was just hold myself together in one peice<br><br>
I can SOOO relate to your emotional state when your child is acting out in ways that are not 'socially acceptable.'<br><br>
My parents rarely spent much time with her when she was young,, and still.. they see her as somebody they just don't get, and have a hard time relating to each other.<br><br>
BUT.. here is the other perspective..<br><br>
As time has gone by,, she has matured, and so have I.<br><br>
She now says that she was not a happy girl to feel so out of control.. and not be able to stop. She wished she would have been able to.<br><br>
I felt I did EVERYTHING I possible could to help her. I refused to give her drugs.. and so used alternative remedies .. which I think have indeed done much good.<br><br>
Now, I have a different perspective how to handle situations. and am more capable of doing so too. I have a 6 year old as well.. who also gets into meltdown mode.. and now I know,, that the recovery time is FASTER...<br>
wayyy faster....<br><br>
If i keep my cool and am grounded. And offer love and hugs. She just melts into me.<br><br>
However, my youngest is a very different kid. My older daughter would not have come near me when angry.. and still does not when she is upset.<br><br>
Keep on trying what works for you and your son. Be gentle with yourself.. and let your parents issues be THEIR OWN. try not to take them on. Same with all the onlookers. Who cares about them.? If they don't have a kind thing to say to help you and your son, then ignore them too.<br><br>
Peace and gentle light to you..<br>
EJ
 

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I read your post and I agree that medication is not the answer. Your child is most likely allergic/ intolerant of certain foods. You did not mention in your first post if he had been vaccinated and or exposed to heavy metals. I do not want to waste time reading through this whole thread, as so many are saying medicate, I want to tell you something else entirely that may help you. Medication may seem to help in the short term, but it will damage his brain and its functions. IMO things created in a lab are what got us into our messes, and adding more will not help at this point. Some people see improvement with a pharmaceutical yes, but it is really just a drug. If you want to help to heal his gut, and I am sure this is what it is after reading your OP, there is a way to do it. First of all, make sure everything is organic that you intake. No food colors, no caffeine, no HFCS. Then the number one thing to remove from his diet is casein. This alone will give you remarkable results. Also remove gluten, soy and corn (the last two because most are contaminated with GMO even if they claim they are organic, the GMO is allowed to exist even within organic to a degree, I have websites if anyone needs them). Also cut out canola oil for the same reason. Try to go to a more raw diet, fruits and mostly veggies, green juice in morning etc.... This is the GFCFSF diet that has helped so many families. It is helping dd1 also. I saw a nearly immediate difference after cutting out casein (We were already organic with no chemicals). So many points in your OP screamed of a casein problem, the problem at the breast while an infant especially. I belong to a group on yahoo called gfcfkids, it is very helpful.<br><br><a href="http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFKids/" target="_blank">http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFKids/</a><br><a href="http://www.gfcfdiet.com/NewpageDirectory6.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gfcfdiet.com/NewpageDirectory6.htm</a><br><a href="http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/index.htm</a> (click on the tab for gfcf diet also)<br><a href="http://www.kathysrecipebox.com/?p=32" target="_blank">http://www.kathysrecipebox.com/?p=32</a> this is a blog that has a way for you to check off allergens and what you want to make to give you recipes..<br><br>
I know some readers may be thinking this is a crazy idea, but it is true! Behavior is directly linked to what one is eating, and simply changing it can change everything. It should be the first thing tried, then add in the proper supplements for whatever else needs tending to... Try to get a DAN doctor in your area and I bet you will get more what the child needs (of course that depends on the DAN) go to this site to find out about DAN drs...<br><br><a href="http://www.generationrescue.org/" target="_blank">http://www.generationrescue.org/</a><br><br>
Please try this diet and supplements before you try medication, he has already been through so much. This is so easy to eat this way too, I love it and have never felt better.<br><br>
with love to you and your son,
 

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After just reading Karika's Response, I forgot to mention how food influenced our family's behaviour too. ( I say FAMILY.. because I was also affected by food too).<br><br>
We were a sugar ( all sugars.. no white or brown, no honey, or maple syrup...no eating dried fruit just like that.. no juice, however there was small amounts of datepaste for cakes and sometimes brownrice syrup on occassion for cakes or cookies.).. no wheat, no dairy, vegan for the most part, no processed flour/rice etc.<br><br>
AND despite all that.. she was still reacting emotionally to many things.<br><br>
BUT.. if she did eat any of those things,, it was much much much much worse.<br><br>
Karika,, what is a DAN dr?<br><br>
Peace and light<br>
EJ
 

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Bisou, just wanted to tell you that your son's park reaction is typical for my oldest. There has to be a transition, or it isn't pretty. Still being positive and hoping for continued good progress for you both!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ejshames</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15162486"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Karika,, what is a DAN dr?</div>
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Not Karika but I can answer this. DAN stands for Defeat Autism Now. A DAN! dr is a medical doctor that specializes in holistic treatments, usually for autistic people but it can be for anyone. Some of the standard things they implement are various supplements and enzymes, gluten free/casein free diet, and chelation treatment for mecury exposure through vaccines. There are a lot of other things they do but those are the main ones. I agree with the food impacting behavior. Food coloring is a huge no no in my family, especially for DS 1. He just can't tolerate it. I'm of the mindset that special diets probably aren't going to fix everything, but they certainly aren't going to cause any harm and usually help, at least a little bit.
 

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Ok, so I hate to be here with more bad news, but unfortunately I am. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying"> I am just SO upset right now.<br><br><b>I just got a horrible phone call from my mom saying that my son is out of control and they need to bring him home RIGHT NOW.</b> He is staying with them for 24 hours (Fri night to Sat night), as is our usual schedule, so I can work. She said they don't want to do this anymore, that <span style="text-decoration:underline;">this is not their responsibility,</span> even though she's told me a million times that "We are in this together." When the %$#@ hits the fan, we aren't in this together. It's all just a big act. My parents are so emotionally messed up, it's just awful. And when something goes wrong, they heap everything on me, as if it's all my fault.<br><br>
How is it my fault? I decided to give birth to him. It's just ridiculous. At the time I found out I was pregnant, it was almost miraculous because I was told I was infertile, and that had been proven true over many years. I was already 31. I thought for a split second about an abortion because I knew I would be doing this alone as his dad was mentally unhealthy and unreliable, but I had always wanted kids, and the idea of missing my (possibly) one chance to be a mother was more than I could bear. I also am not entirely comfortable (personally) with the idea of having an abortion, though I support that decision for others. Adoption was even MORE impossible of an option. Seriously, if I had to give my child to someone else, I would have probably killed myself. I just could not deal with the heartbreak. I understand why some people do that and I admire their strength, but I can't imagine living with the pain of that decision. So my only choice was having my son. Of course I never knew my son would be the way he is, and if he was a "normal," well-adjusted, emotionally healthy child, my mom would never be saying these things. It's my fault because I had this child and he has problems. How is that fair? I had no control over this. Had I given birth to a child who was calm and serene at all times, of course I wouldn't be blamed for anything. I just don't understand how I always seem to get dealt the crappiest hand!<br><br>
My son has been doing pretty well for the last week or so, but we also recently found out we have to move in the next few months, and I think this is really scaring my son because of what we went through last May (a very serious attempted break-in---see my posts above). I don't know what's going on today at my parents' place, but t<span style="text-decoration:underline;">hey've never brought my son home because he acted so terribly</span>. Actually, usually, to the contrary, they will say that he was a perfect angel and just glow about how much fun they had with him, or that they had a minor problem, and then they just talked it out and it was all fine and dandy.<br><br>
Apparently this weekend it's not going that way.<br><br>
I know many of you have said my parents are toxic, and it's true. They are definitely unpredictable and emotionally abusive at times. Sometimes I will call in distress because my son is out of control and my mom will be very sympathetic and understanding and try to be comforting (something she's not very good at). Then other times she will say, "I can't take this. Do you know how hard it is for me to hear about how bad he is being? It just tears me up inside! It makes me ill. I feel like I don't even want to continue on" blah blah blah, as if her hearing about my son being out of control and me being upset is worse than actually experiencing it and having no one to call for help or escape. I would just kill (figuratively) to have someone to call when he gets like that who could actually come over and help me or give me a few minutes to step outside, but I have no one.<br><br>
So, my mom, being upset that my son is completely out of control, and keep in mind there are TWO of them, calls to basically attack me because he is <span style="text-decoration:underline;">MY son</span> and <span style="text-decoration:underline;">MY responsibility</span> and I was the one who chose to have him, not them. So hurtful and just mean. I know he isn't technically their responsibility, and I've never forced anything on them. They always offered to help, even insisted on helping and taking him overnight. But now that they are apparently seeing a bit of what I have to deal with, though I have to do it completely ALONE, they are furious and resentful and completely blaming me. It's my fault because I gave birth to him, and they shouldn't have to deal with it. Yet I know that when they are elderly and need help, whose "responsibility" is it to take care of them? Mine. Isn't this what a family is supposed to do?<br><br>
I just wish there was some sort of support network or hotline for parents where a trained volunteer or two could come to your house and help you in times of crisis like this with your kids.<br><br>
I am just so upset at this call. Of course this quickly escalated into a big fight. I was saying, "This is how I feel when I call, and I am only one person! You are TWO people and you can't handle it. I have no one to bring him back to when he acts like this. I have no options." She replied, "But you're his mother." Yes, that's true, but it doesn't mean I can handle it by myself. No one should have to. Obviously he can be too much for even two adults to handle.<br><br>
She was completely furious (at me, of course) and she said my dad was "sitting there, completely distraught and depressed, just staring off into space."<br><br>
Of course I am sympathetic to what they are going through. I have been there hundreds of times with him. But to call and just attack me with "This is not our responsibility. This is YOUR child. YOU were the one who decided to have him" is just cruel. So many times they've said there is nothing wrong with him and that he's just a normal, healthy boy. They've said that they absolutely will not support me in giving him medication, and if I do, if anything goes wrong, they will heap blame on me because it will be all my fault. So I have not only the worry that something could happen to my son if he took medication, but if it does, instead of sympathy and support that "You were doing what you thought was best for your son and trying to help him," I will get, "We told you not to give him medication. Now look what happened! This is all your fault!"<br><br>
On top of being upset because my mom wouldn't really tell me what was happening (she would only say something like, "You know, he's doing what he does"), I am a college teacher and next week is finals, so I had about 40 papers I was trying to grade today. This was the time I had set aside to get this done. And now I don't have this time. Saturday is my biggest day for work since I can have all day, from the time I get up until I go to sleep, to grade papers and do work. My parents usually pick up my son on Friday night and bring him home on Saturday night at bedtime, so he's often asleep. So on top of the verbal attack and being worried about what happened with my son, now I have the HUGE stress of worrying about how I am going to get my work done and what I am going to do.<br><br>
The sad fact is that I simply cannot do this alone. Maybe after this weekend, I won't have any choice, and I honestly don't know how I would do it. For one, I wouldn't be able to get my work done. I would be in serious trouble. I have no one else who can help me with my son. I can't imagine having him all the time and not having a night and day to myself where I can sleep in, clean, and do work without having to deal with the constant stress of worrying what's going to happen today and walking on eggshells all the time. It is just absolutely awful.<br><br>
I don't know why I always seem to have the worst luck. I have emotionally abusive parents, a child who is completely out of control, his father being completely absent from our lives (emotionally, physically, and financially), and no other people to turn to for help. I hate being tied to my parents and having to rely on them, but if I don't (or if they decide to stop helping me), I honestly don't know how I would make it. I absolutely can't imagine making it, and that is just terrifying to me right now.<br><br>
I am just terrified.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>karika</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15162479"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Please try this diet and supplements before you try medication, he has already been through so much. This is so easy to eat this way too, I love it and have never felt better.<br><br>
with love to you and your son,</div>
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Hi Karika:<br><br>
Thanks for the info. I've been hesitant to try a diet like this because we are strict vegetarians, so it would basically mean we would be eating only fruits and vegetables and no protein at all. My son detests beans and nuts, and his favorite foods are pasta, cheese, pizza, and that sort of thing. We do eat primarily organic, and he eats lots of fruit and veggies.<br><br>
People have also asked if he was vaccinated, and I hate to admit he was. I read all the research on both sides and it seemed like there was just as much convincing evidence on one side as there was on the other. I thought, "Well, vaccines have almost eradicated diseases that used to kill hundreds and thousands of people, so that must be a good thing" and sort of went with that. He did have a serious reaction to the pertussis vaccine, so I told his doctor I didn't want him to have any more doses of that, and I didn't have him vaccinated for flu and a few other things, but he probably got most of his vaccines. I was told that they no longer contained even trace amounts of mercury, because I asked his doctor about this.<br><br>
I can't really imagine what we'd eat if we eliminated all gluten, dairy, and soy. It seems like that leaves us with just veggies, rice, and fruit? He is also super picky about things he doesn't like. I'd be afraid he just wouldn't eat, and when he doesn't eat, his behavior is WAY out of control. It's worst when he's tired or hungry and is much better after he's eaten.<br><br>
I guess if it would dramatically turn our lives around, it would be worth it, but right now it seems like it would add a lot more stress because he would be really mad at me if I took away everything he likes to eat! I mean REALLY mad.
 

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Hi Tiffani and Fbsurvivor:<br><br>
Thanks to both of you for your great advice. <span style="text-decoration:underline;"><b>I have a question</b></span>: What happens when you get down to the child's level, explain what needs to happen, sympathize with them and their feelings ("I know you don't want to go") or even give them a few more minutes, but then they are still completely enraged? I am the kind of person who reacts with a major allergic reaction to mosquitoes and gets huge welts that last for days and are super painful, so it wasn't an option for me to stay out there indefinitely. Another five minutes? Yes. Another twenty minutes? No. <b>So what do you do when, despite all your best efforts to transition and move your child towards the car, it's not happening and he is not calming down at all?</b> This is kind of where I was.<br><br>
Also, I hope I didn't give the impression I want to control him. I guess it's more along the lines of wanting him to control himself. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I don't know ANYONE personally who has a child like my son. I know some of you guys do, but none of my friends or family members have children who act anywhere near the way my son does. Since I am a single mom, I constantly get blamed for his behavior because, "Well, you know, she is a single mom." I honestly don't think it has much to do with that. For one, most of my friends with kids are single moms, and their children don't act like this at all. People are so judgmental and it's just so unfair. Like in the posting I wrote a little while ago today with my parents completely FURIOUS at me because he's out of control, furious at me because I was the one who gave birth to him. Keep in mind that I am an entire state away from where he is, yet I am still responsible for his bad behavior. They expect me to "control" him. They can't, but they say, "YOU are his mom." I don't know what magic trick they expect me to try. I've tried just about everything. <b>At this point, I think I have tried almost everything except extreme diet modification, naturopathy, and pharmaceutical medication.</b><br><br>
Well, thanks to everyone who is reading this. It really helps me to at least be able to write about how I am feeling and get it out. I have no one to call for support. I tried to call my son's therapist, but she was in the ER with a laceration to her head (!!!) so we couldn't talk, understandably. I am just so upset, still, about what my mom said to me. She was upset, angry, and frustrated about my son's behavior, so what did she do? She called me to take it out on me. Nothing like family support! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked"><br><br>
I have thought about this idea often, but I think we need to go back to living in tribes. This way of living that we have is SO unnatural and unhealthy for most of us. Imagine the support we'd have if we were surrounded by 20, 30, 40 family members and friends on a daily basis? If we needed to work and have help with our sick child, and we had ten aunties and grandmas (or uncles and grandpas, not to gender discriminate) to call on? My life would be so much easier. If I wasn't afraid of cults, I'd join a commune.<br><br>
I just feel like something in my life needs to give, somehow. There is NO balance. There is only work and the hell, even though I cringe to say it, of parenting this child that I don't know what to do to help. I love him more than anything, but he stretches me WAY beyond capacity every single day, even on good days.<br><br>
I just don't know how to fix it. Changing my career isn't an option. I've put ten years into this career, I do love my job, and I have worked my way to the top of the pay scale and to the top ranks of seniority. It's just not a good job to have as a single parent.<br><br>
I hate to resort to medication just because I am an overworked, stressed out, exhausted single parent. If I was a stay at home mom, would I be able to help him better? He has a terribly hard time leaving me and lately will cry when I leave him anywhere other than with me.<br><br>
I am just rambling and rambling. Confused. Sad. Angry at my parents, life, my bad luck. Scared. Feeling lonely. Lost.<br><br>
Now crying. . . . .<br><br>
I just don't know how to get out of this pit I keep finding myself in. I try so hard to be optimistic, a good mom, a good teacher, a good friend, yet I feel I am failing on so many accounts.<br><br>
I need help and support, but I have none. I know people sometimes say, "The only person you can rely on is yourself," but I don't think this is how people are meant to live. It's just not natural or healthy, I don't think.<br><br>
I need different parents. Parents who are supportive, kind, and loving, but obviously, I can't replace them. I have what I have. I don't know. I am just lost.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MissNo</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15181584"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I meant to add, does his therapist have any ideas for you? Does she know of any playgroups, <i>anything</i> to help you get by without your parents?</div>
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The problem is in the amount of time I need to get my work done. When my parents take my son on the weekend, they will usually pick him up around 6-7pm. I will often work from 6-7pm until midnight, getting in 5-6 hours of work. I will then get up the next morning and work from about 8am to midnight or 1:00 am the next day, getting another 16-17 hours of work, so <b>I am doing as much as 21-23 hours of work between Friday and Saturday on the weekends!</b> My parents usually bring him home around 8pm on Saturday, but since he's asleep 90% of the time, I am able to just keep working until I reach complete exhaustion.<br><br>
The amount of money and hours that it would take to add an extra 23 hours of childcare into my week . . . . . I just can't see how I'd make that happen.<br><br>
Also, he does love going to his grandparents' house, and usually it's pretty good for him, except for this weekend, obviously. My parents have never wanted to bring him home because he was so out of control, so I am scared to hear what happened. Usually they say he was wonderful and when I explain these awful tantrums and explosions to them, they say, "Well, he never acts that way for us!" Well, he did this time!
 

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Bisou, I am sending you many good thoughts and strength to get through this time. I am so upset with your parents, but this may be a blessing in disguise. Can you try a site like sittercity.com, to find someone to help you for a few hours? Is there anyone nearby in a parenting group perhaps who can help you for just a few hours, or even a university student?<br><br>
I can't imagine how frustrating it is and how stressful, to have those that are supposed to love and assist you being so hurtful. Please hang in there, and have faith in your choices. You are a wonderful mother.
 

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Hi ejshames:<br><br>
Thanks for your post. It's good to know that your daughter grew up and doesn't have as many of those issues now, as a young adult. My son often worries that he will be in jail when he's a grown up because he will be a "bad guy." He worries that he will do awful things and not be able to control himself. I try to dispel this terrible image he has of himself, but that thought scares and saddens me too.<br><br>
I hope that somehow I can find a way to work with my son and help him (and me!) have a better life. Neither one of us can go on living like this.<br><br>
Thanks for your support, you and everyone!
 
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