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Discussion Starter #1
Please bear with me. I'm stuck in a dilemma with a popular web designer on a popular WAHM site. I hired her to design and install my new web store. For $450 she threw in a logo, banner and cart layout for the WAHM site. She asked for half upfront then went to work on the separate WAHM cart (which I told her upfront that I didn't really need, it was the website I needed) instead of my website. Since she insisted on working on the cart first, I trusted that she had reason and would then easily use that layout for my website.<br><br>
She then came up with designs (for the WAHM cart) that were nothing remotely of what I wanted. After the first design I had a bad feeling that something wasn't right so I asked for a refund, to which she ignored. I went into panic mode and started sending her pictures and tons of ideas. I was worried about losing my money and having to settle for a bad design for $450. She kept ignoring what I wanted and giving me designs that didn't work or had serious flaws.<br><br>
After she kept complaining of stress and personal family hardships, I asked again for a refund (for her own health, since she said she was so stressed and her doctor told her to stop working) to which she replied "I told you I don't do refunds". I had no choice. I kept working with her to try and come up with a design that worked. I spent hours myself taking more pictures, describing ideas, communicating via email, and staying by the computer in case she needed help.<br><br>
Fast forward 3 frustrating weeks to what we had hoped was the final design. It was still badly flawed but by then I was ready to just go with it. It was clear I wasn't going to get the "fantastic web design" that she promised. She uploaded it onto the WAHM cart and found out it was way too narrow, then said "hey, it's the design" and expected me to accept it. I told her to try it out on my web store, since it is the reason I hired her, to see how it looks there.<br><br>
I received an email the next day saying that the configuration of my website was way above her head and that I had 2 choices. Give her another few weeks to TRY and figure it out even though she didn't really want to do this and had other customers waiting and she would lose lots of money to turn them down OR she can hand over the design to me so I can hire someone else to install it "in a snap" and call it even (no extra charge). <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I had no choice. I knew, from experience with her, that she probably wasn't going to make it work if I waited around for her to try it. But I also couldn't take the design as-is because it was too narrow, flawed with other problems (shadows and blurry/distorted images), and would surely not work on my website if it didn't work on the WAHM page. I had to demand a refund. I offered to pay $50 for the logo (which I didn't need) because I felt bad that she would lose money. She told me that she doesn't do refunds but that she would only charge me $125 for the simple logo which she usually charges $300 for (but has it listed for $50 on her WAHM cart). I told her never mind, I don't even need the logo, and to just refund all of the money.<br><br>
A few days passed with no response. I emailed a reminder to which she replied "what is your cc paypal?". Another few days pass with nothing. I emailed another reminder. She responded saying that she is waiting for funds to clear. A few days later, after no response, I emailed another reminder. The next day she issued me a partial refund minus $100 "only as a means of ending this professional relationship quickly and easily for both parties, and this is in no way an acknowledgment of breach of contract on my behalf. My site clearly states that there are no refunds". I responded saying that a partial refund is not acceptable, that I did not receive the service I paid for and that she chose to not deliver. No response. I told her that I wouldn't wait any longer, if she didn't have my full refund by that evening then I would leave bad feedback.<br><br>
This is where I need your advice. We are both reputable WAHMs on this site. If I leave her negative feedback and warn other WAHMs of her bad business ethics (to which it seems I am the first victim) then I am also making myself look bad with the negativity. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/crap.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crap"> It's not my way to try and screw another WAHM over just because she screwed me over. I don't know what to do. But I also don't want to let go of the $100 she short-changed me (which we really need) AND I think other mamas should be warned. But I also have a feeling that other WAHMs might gang-up on me and stand behind her because she's apparently been wonderful for them. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:<br><br>
What would you do?
 

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Geez <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I'm sorry. I can understand a no refund policy, but any designer worth their weight will refund when they are taking too long or just not getting the design right, it happens to the best. How did you pay? If it was through your credit card and/or paypal, you can dispute the charges.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mother_sunshine</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7887475"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">This is where I need your advice. We are both reputable WAHMs on this site. If I leave her negative feedback and warn other WAHMs of her bad business ethics (to which it seems I am the first victim)</div>
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This may not be the case. Sometimes negative (public) feedback just may not be there for a variety of reasons.<br><br>
However, yes, I would be careful. I had someone politely threaten to ruin my reputation over a similar situation. I guess some just have a different standard of ethics so you need to cover your back.
 

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I'd check your contract and see how you are covered. Most will state how much of a refund they will give and when if they give refunds. She is saying she doesn't give refunds, which is probably something you should have had written into the contract. I know, hind sight is 20-20. If it is written into the contract that there are no refunds, than unfortunately she probably is in the right. Its a huge bummer it didn't work, but at least she gave you some back when she didn't have to? I can see it from both sides, and it sucks either way you work it. Yuck. I don't mean to side with her, I have no clue who you are talking about. I'm just wondering what the contract stated and if this was something you knew in advance?<br><br>
The $100 was probably for the time she spent on your design. Perhaps she would be willing to give you *something* for that? If she gave you the coding she'd have to charge you full price for it. But maybe the logo, even though you say you don't "need" it?<br><br>
Could you ask for a break down of services and charges, ask for the $100 to be included and shown where it was so you can both be on the same understanding for what that $100 is for? Maybe that would help you guys come to an agreement for whats fair?<br><br>
I'm sorry I don't have better advice, I hope it works out for both of you!
 

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Boy mama, I'm sorry. What a shame! I'm sorry you got such unprofessional service. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:<br><br>
From an outsider's perspective, I would be grateful to read about your negative experience with her. You are probably not the only one this has happened to. Perhaps there were others who were afraid to come forward in fear of her retailiating. ??<br><br>
That being said, I understand. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">
 

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As a public service you should tell us who it is so no one hires her again. Also, can you give us a link to the site she made? Maybe we can help fix it for you???
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Unfortunately she never had any kind of contract. When I paid her $50 deposit she said she would get back to me with a contract and questionare but she never did either. When I paid, there was no "by paying you agree to..." kind of agreement either. And I searched around her site thoroughly before choosing her and I never saw a "no refund" policy stated or I would have thought twice.<br><br>
She never uploaded any design to my website. She didn't know how. That was the ultimate problem. The configuration was above her head (her words) so she never attempted it. She uploaded the design onto my cart but quickly removed it because it was too narrow. She had the design on her site but she has since removed it. I don't have anything to show for the $100.<br><br>
I am trying to work with her and give her a chance to reconsider. I emailed and called her telling her that I would take a basic border for the $100 just to avoid the negativity. She hasn't responded so I have no choice but to go through the process of complaint/filing/feedback. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Thanks for all your advice and support. I won't be letting this go just because she decided to tell me after I paid that she doesn't do refunds. Regardless of the amount of time that both of us spent on it, she didn't deliver what I paid for.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Spring Sun</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7890752"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">As a public service you should tell us who it is so no one hires her again. Also, can you give us a link to the site she made? Maybe we can help fix it for you???</div>
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I am pretty sure you can't do that. I didn't name the person I had an issue with, and the thread I had (not too much unlike this one) got pulled because one of her partners made herself known, thus exposing the person I was complaining of and making the thread against the rules. At least I think this was the reason. I am not complaining - just letting you know that you need to be careful not to name another member and openly complain about their services here.
 

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Ugh, what a bummer. Sounds like you are at least willing to work with her, that says a lot about you. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Another reminder to anyone working with any kind of service provider, get it in writing. Get a contract and don't pay unless you have one that clearly defines the services being provided. These don't just help the service provider, they protect the customer as well. Again, hind-sight is 20-20. I hope it helps others in the future!<br><br>
Hopefully this works out for you... did I already say that? lol. Gosh I'm tired tonight! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mother_sunshine</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7891191"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Unfortunately she never had any kind of contract. When I paid her $50 deposit she said she would get back to me with a contract and questionare but she never did either. When I paid, there was no "by paying you agree to..." kind of agreement either. And I searched around her site thoroughly before choosing her and I never saw a "no refund" policy stated or I would have thought twice.<br><br>
She never uploaded any design to my website. She didn't know how. That was the ultimate problem. The configuration was above her head (her words) so she never attempted it. She uploaded the design onto my cart but quickly removed it because it was too narrow. She had the design on her site but she has since removed it. I don't have anything to show for the $100.<br><br>
I am trying to work with her and give her a chance to reconsider. I emailed and called her telling her that I would take a basic border for the $100 just to avoid the negativity. She hasn't responded so I have no choice but to go through the process of complaint/filing/feedback. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Thanks for all your advice and support. I won't be letting this go just because she decided to tell me after I paid that she doesn't do refunds. Regardless of the amount of time that both of us spent on it, she didn't deliver what I paid for.</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Kristine233</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7891643"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Another reminder to anyone working with any kind of service provider, get it in writing.</div>
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Yes - *never* let someone call you to work out the details. I think this is really unprofessional.
 

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<b>art4abies</b> is correct. Reviews are disallowed within the main WAHM Well forum. There is a specific subforum created for that purpose. It is <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?f=183" target="_blank">Biz Opps & Service Reviews</a> and it does have <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=126183" target="_blank">Rules and Guidelines</a> to be aware of, but reviews of specific WAHMs are absolutely allowed.<br><br>
This thread is completely in keeping with WAHM Well as you are not pointing fingers or naming names, but rather asking for advice in how to handle a business decision.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>HeatherSanders</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7891856"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
This thread is completely in keeping with WAHM Well as you are not pointing fingers or naming names, but rather asking for advice in how to handle a business decision.</div>
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Yes - I hope I didn't sound discouraging or un-supportive - by all means this is a fabulous place for support. Just don't name those names. lol <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Update<br><br>
I filed a claim through PayPal. Shortly after I filed, the web designer emailed me privately to offer the logo she created for a "discounted rate of $200". When I declined and recorded the email on the PayPal claim, she emailed me the next day asking $100 for it and attached it to the email. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I declined again. First, I didn't hire her for the logo. Second, the logo was meant to go with her design that she couldn't complete and install so it is useless to me. Third, I don't need the logo and never agreed to pay $100 for it. Fourth, my new web designer already made me a new logo that is far nicer, and it only cost me $15.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: So now I wait to see what happens with paypal. I will file feedback soon so everyone can be warned. I hate the negativity but I owe that much to the next wahm who seeks her business. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
I just wanted to point out that while I agree it sucks that she spent time on the design, she ultimately was the one who decided she couldn't complete the job. It isn't ethical to expect me to pay for her time when the termination was her own choice. I spent a lot of time trying to work with her to offer countless images and ideas. I was willing to work with her to help make it work, even though she had gone way beyond the expected time frame and she wasn't delivering the quality that she promised. In the end, I received nothing but lost time, lost business, and gained a lot of headache.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mother_sunshine</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7915149"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Update<br><br>
I filed a claim through PayPal. Shortly after I filed, the web designer emailed me privately to offer the logo she created for a "discounted rate of $200". When I declined and recorded the email on the PayPal claim, she emailed me the next day asking $100 for it and attached it to the email. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: I declined again. First, I didn't hire her for the logo. Second, the logo was meant to go with her design that she couldn't complete and install so it is useless to me. Third, I don't need the logo and never agreed to pay $100 for it. Fourth, my new web designer already made me a new logo that is far nicer, and it only cost me $15.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: So now I wait to see what happens with paypal. I will file feedback soon so everyone can be warned. I hate the negativity but I owe that much to the next wahm who seeks her business. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
I just wanted to point out that while I agree it sucks that she spent time on the design, she ultimately was the one who decided she couldn't complete the job. It isn't ethical to expect me to pay for her time when the termination was her own choice. I spent a lot of time trying to work with her to offer countless images and ideas. I was willing to work with her to help make it work, even though she had gone way beyond the expected time frame and she wasn't delivering the quality that she promised. In the end, I received nothing but lost time, lost business, and gained a lot of headache.</div>
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This seems to be happening a lot lately. Please do take the time to review the business in the reviews section so the rest of up don't fall into the same pit, if you don't mind. That is one of the main benefits of being a member of a WAHM forum- to warn one another. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So, after a month of waiting for PayPal to research the dispute, they sided with the web designer because "the item purchased was virtual or intangible". <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
So I gave her $100 for 2 months of pure frustration and the only thing I have to show for it is a headache and a few more stress lines.<br><br><br>
Well...I'd rather be the good guy than the bad guy. Karma.
 

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I like the part about attaching the logo and demanding payment for it. Classy <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: <span style="font-size:xx-small;">(sarcasm just in case anyone misses that)</span> Really gives us designers who give a crap a bad rap. I'm sorry you had to deal with this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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I'm sorry that you had to go through this. As a web designer, I also have a 50% down policy that is non-refundable. BUT - and this is the big difference - I make all people who work with me sign an agreement which stipulates that fact. Further, I would never try to create something that someone doesn't need. If someone doesn't want as shopping cart, I don't create one. If someone doesn't want a banner, I don't create one. In fact, I spend a lot of time - probably more than is profitable, working with my clients to ensure that their sites are exactly what they want...<br><br>
I hope your next attempt to build your site goes better.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
She said she was going to send me a contract and questionnaire but she never did. She never mentioned her refund policy and she didn't have it on her website at the time (now she has it at the bottom). Instead, before I even got a chance to tell her what I wanted, she sent me a design that was horrible and nothing of who I am and what I sell. When I told her it wasn't "me", I think she took offense and it went downhill from there. She kept giving me the opposite of what I suggested. I even spent a day taking pictures for her, at her suggestion (which she quickly disregarded). I felt like she was playing some mind game with me the whole time and had no intentions of giving me what I wanted.<br><br>
I'm not that hard to please, though I expected my money's worth. It took less than a week for my new web designer to come up with something that I love (and she charged a fraction of the cost).<br><br>
That said, after many requests, feedback has been left (here at MDC and at the WAHM forum where we're from). Hopefully I can save some other Mama the time, money and frustration.<br><br>
Thanks to all of you who offered support (in your posts and PM's). <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/grouphug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="grouphug">
 
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