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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My teenager has been staying with my mother for a little over a year. It started out becuase she had anxiety attacks and migraines and I thought it might help her to be where it was quieter. And well lets face it.. she was also very unpleasant and violent.

The physical symptoms went away when she went to my moms. I have asked her to come home and she says no. I was trying to respect her wishes and not cause a huge fight so I let her stay.

Now my mother and I have not been speaking for 6 months. She flew off the handle for the millionth time and this time I demanded an apology. She refuses. She lies about me to other people and of course they believe her. Oh wa wa.. I bend over backwards to help Tina and when I need something she has something "more important to do." (She wanted me to take her to the store to buy a brides maid dress for my daughter. My brother asked my daughter to be in the wedding at the last minute and the wedding was 10 days away.) She neglects to tell people that what was more important were my taxes that were due in 2 days.

When she wanted to go to the store I told her I couldn't becuase I had to do the taxes...I would take her the next day. She screamed in my face that wasn't good enough. We got in a fight and I left. So she tells everyone that I am the one that started the screaming and she only yelled at me to tell me to get out of her house because she will not tolerate me disrespecting her in her house. I don't know if she really believes this is what happened or if she is just a UAV and a big fat lair.

My daughter came over Thursday and stayed the night. I took her shopping for a few dresses. She stayed until the following evening and everything was pleasant. Today she came over for piano lessons and was just totally mean and nasty. Apparenlty I don't care about her. I have asked her why she feels this way but apparenlty if I don't know I must be stupid and she isn't going to tell me. She tells me I have 24 hours to resolve my fight with my mother or I am going to "suffer the consequences." She wont tell me what these are.. but apparently I wont like them. I am apparently crazy and a nut case and I need to see a shrink. (something my mother has been telling me for years so I am sure this is where she gets this from.)

Now here is the deal.. if you ask anyone who knows me and my mother everyone knows my mom is the one that is crazy. She twists things to make herself look like a victim. She purposely martyrs herself so she can say hey look at me.. look at everything I do and no one appreciates me. I will ask if she can watch the kids.. she will say yes.. then get upset after the fact because she needed to do something else. WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME THAT. Cause you would have yelled at me. Umm no I wouldn't have.

I have no desire to "make up" with my mother. At this point, I hate her with a burning, fiery, passion. I want my daughter home but she refuses to come home.

What do I do? Do I force her home? Or do I leave her with her grandmother? She is 15. I have tried to be respectful of her feelings and needs.. but i feel it is doing more damang for her to be with my crazy mother. (who of course one brother and my stepfather and daughter thing is perfectly sane and I am the crazy one.) I cannot take this. Why can't I just have a normal mother who didn't expect everyone to kiss her
all the time and if you don't.. you are ungrateful. UGGG..
 

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I don't have any advice about what to do about your daughter, but wanted to at least give you a


Your mom...There's a great book titled Boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It's Christian, but even if you aren't Christian it's full of really good information.

I would guess that probably the best way to deal with your mom is to change the way you react to her, don't get drawn into her drama and set some boundaries to protect yourself and your family. And yea, that will be tricky because your dd is living with her.
 

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I would:

a) go to counselling. Go with DD if you can, but if she will not attend - go alone

b) have a meeting with just DD. Ask her specifically what was happenning at home that drove her away. Try to fix it within reasonable boundaries. If the noise was bugging her - can she move her room to the basement or some other quiet area? What was causing the anxiety attacks? Can she learn some techniques to nip this in the bud beforehand?

c) Once you have a plan in place, ask her to try living at home. Perhaps make a timeline: 1 month? 3? Let her visit grandma as much as she likes - but no or few overnight visits.

There is no easy answer here. There are 2 opposing, yet powerful issues:

-at 15 she should have a lot of say in where she lives - and forcing her to return could breed huge resentment

-you dislike and distrust your mom. As a mother, the idea of my kids living with someone I dislike and distrust is apalling.

Really, the best bet may be to get your own house totally in order, and invite her return. If you look sane and loving, and your moms house is a drama filled nightmare - she may eventually tire of living at grandmas and return.

Good luck!

Kathy
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So more today..

I think I forgot to mention on Monday DD was calling me an Fing B, I was crazy and I was going to regret not "fixing" thing with my mother. Then she walked back towards me and spit on me. Now while I wanted to smack her I didn't say anything and just shut the door as my "mother" showed up to get her.

We have previously made an arrangement that I would give her $10 on payday for shampoo and stuff like that. On Monday I told her I would get it Tuesday as I don't carry cash. After her behavior and her spitting on me however I don't think she deserves it. It would feel like rewarding this type of behavior and teaching her that if she behaves this way she can get what she wants. (Which is exactly how my 30 year old brother behavies.. he moved into my mom's with his wife in Dec. )

So today she called me demanding her $10. She didn't even ask nicely. "I want my money." I told her that she came into my house and spit on me and what makes her think she can treat me like that and get things in return. She tells me I deserved it and I told her I would not allow her to treat me like S. and I hung up the phone.

She then texted me this:' Give me my fing money. Or u know what? Ur already a big fat b. Y not make it worse?" (editing mine she said the whole words.)

Now here is my deal. If I give her the money that will teacher her that acting like this gets desired results. I think she should be able to come over here once a week or so and act respectful.

I am at a loss. I don't know what to do with her. I am sure my mother and or my brother are feeding this crap into her. She has been telling me stuff about her "father" that I didn't tell her. Which means either my mother or brother are telling her. (I think it is more likely my brother cause he was 15 and it is once sided crap a teenage would think.) DD has never meet the man I was married too. He left when I was three months pregnant and never made an attempt to contact me or my parents, even though they lived in the same house until DD was 11. But that of course is my fault.. I shouldn't have married him in the first place. Sigh.

Anyways.. any advise about the money situation at least? I really don't have anyone to turn to except my cousin who would kick her out of her house if she treated her like that and not pay for her piano lessons or give her any money or anything. (you get the point.)
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aniT View Post
So more today..

I think I forgot to mention on Monday DD was calling me an Fing B, I was crazy and I was going to regret not "fixing" thing with my mother. Then she walked back towards me and spit on me. Now while I wanted to smack her I didn't say anything and just shut the door as my "mother" showed up to get her.

We have previously made an arrangement that I would give her $10 on payday for shampoo and stuff like that. On Monday I told her I would get it Tuesday as I don't carry cash. After her behavior and her spitting on me however I don't think she deserves it. It would feel like rewarding this type of behavior and teaching her that if she behaves this way she can get what she wants. (Which is exactly how my 30 year old brother behavies.. he moved into my mom's with his wife in Dec. )

So today she called me demanding her $10. She didn't even ask nicely. "I want my money." I told her that she came into my house and spit on me and what makes her think she can treat me like that and get things in return. She tells me I deserved it and I told her I would not allow her to treat me like S. and I hung up the phone.

She then texted me this:' Give me my fing money. Or u know what? Ur already a big fat b. Y not make it worse?" (editing mine she said the whole words.)

Now here is my deal. If I give her the money that will teacher her that acting like this gets desired results. I think she should be able to come over here once a week or so and act respectful.

I am at a loss. I don't know what to do with her. I am sure my mother and or my brother are feeding this crap into her. She has been telling me stuff about her "father" that I didn't tell her. Which means either my mother or brother are telling her. (I think it is more likely my brother cause he was 15 and it is once sided crap a teenage would think.) DD has never meet the man I was married too. He left when I was three months pregnant and never made an attempt to contact me or my parents, even though they lived in the same house until DD was 11. But that of course is my fault.. I shouldn't have married him in the first place. Sigh.

Anyways.. any advise about the money situation at least? I really don't have anyone to turn to except my cousin who would kick her out of her house if she treated her like that and not pay for her piano lessons or give her any money or anything. (you get the point.)
ummmm. this probably won't sound pleasant. But it is meant with love.

YOU are her mom. not the grandmother. And yeah, at 15 she does get a SAY in where she lives, but not the FINAL say. She is still 15, and though i believe some 15 year olds are just as mature as some adults, this is apparently not the case here. First of all, i wouldn't send my teenager to live with someone who i though was crazy. And if somewhere after i decided they were, you can bet that kid would be home before she could even have time to complain.

I don't know exactly what your situation is here, but i am getting the feeling that your whole family is very confrontational. You have to have maturity and self control in order to teach it. Someone once told me that the key to being in control is to understand which things that i CAN'T control. I cannot control my circumstances, or the actions of others. I CAN however control my response to them, my attitudes, and that is where i can change things. For the better, or the worse.

If you have an agreement with her to give her the money for things that she needs, then give her the money! Keep your word.

I think counseling is ABSOLUTELY a good idea. you have gone beyond what you can handle yourself, and need an impartial 3rd party adult to help you both present your sides of the story in a safe environment where disrespect will not be tolerated. She is still a minor, you can make her do this. In 3 more years though that window will be closed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahwpen View Post
ummmm. this probably won't sound pleasant. But it is meant with love.

YOU are her mom. not the grandmother. And yeah, at 15 she does get a SAY in where she lives, but not the FINAL say. She is still 15, and though i believe some 15 year olds are just as mature as some adults, this is apparently not the case here. First of all, i wouldn't send my teenager to live with someone who i though was crazy. And if somewhere after i decided they were, you can bet that kid would be home before she could even have time to complain.

I don't know exactly what your situation is here, but i am getting the feeling that your whole family is very confrontational. You have to have maturity and self control in order to teach it. Someone once told me that the key to being in control is to understand which things that i CAN'T control. I cannot control my circumstances, or the actions of others. I CAN however control my response to them, my attitudes, and that is where i can change things. For the better, or the worse.

If you have an agreement with her to give her the money for things that she needs, then give her the money! Keep your word.

I think counseling is ABSOLUTELY a good idea. you have gone beyond what you can handle yourself, and need an impartial 3rd party adult to help you both present your sides of the story in a safe environment where disrespect will not be tolerated. She is still a minor, you can make her do this. In 3 more years though that window will be closed.
What is the point of forcing her to come home if she would just run away to grandma's and grandma would protect her?

As for giving her the money here is the deal. My bother would rant and rave and rage until my mother gave him whatever he wanted. I mean he would threaten to kill himself and my mom would give him and bow down to him. DD is starting to act the same way and I am hoping to nip it in the bud. I feel.. by with-holding the money she will (should) learn that she can treat people like garbage and still get what she wants. That she can't rant, rave, and rage at people until they give in. She needs to treat people with respect. I mean seriously, if your child walked into your house cussed you out, called you name, and spit on you for no apparent reason other than the fact that she wanted you to apologize to your mother would you just hand over whatever she wanted?

As for the counciling, I tried that in the fall. My mother was so disrespectful and opposed to it that DD refused to go any longer. "If I had taken you to see a councilor when you were her age you would have thrown a screaming fit." She is always making snide comments about stuff like that in front of DD and half the time it isn't even true. My mother didn't know me from a hole in the wall.. but she thinks she does. It's crazy.

Oh and before anyone suggests I move. I did. I moved 700 miles away and she followed me! Now I realize that is when things with DD started going down hill. I thought it was just teenage stuff... but I believe now it was more grandma's undermining that is the problem. I just don't know what to do. My mother does not support me or my parenting. I fully believe trying to bring her back here would involve the police and my mother fighting me tooth and nail. I believe that my daughter would run away back to grandma's and in the long run this would cause even more damage to our relationship such as it is.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aniT View Post
What is the point of forcing her to come home if she would just run away to grandma's and grandma would protect her?

As for giving her the money here is the deal. My bother would rant and rave and rage until my mother gave him whatever he wanted. I mean he would threaten to kill himself and my mom would give him and bow down to him. DD is starting to act the same way and I am hoping to nip it in the bud. I feel.. by with-holding the money she will (should) learn that she can treat people like garbage and still get what she wants. That she can't rant, rave, and rage at people until they give in. She needs to treat people with respect. I mean seriously, if your child walked into your house cussed you out, called you name, and spit on you for no apparent reason other than the fact that she wanted you to apologize to your mother would you just hand over whatever she wanted?

As for the counciling, I tried that in the fall. My mother was so disrespectful and opposed to it that DD refused to go any longer. "If I had taken you to see a councilor when you were her age you would have thrown a screaming fit." She is always making snide comments about stuff like that in front of DD and half the time it isn't even true. My mother didn't know me from a hole in the wall.. but she thinks she does. It's crazy.

Oh and before anyone suggests I move. I did. I moved 700 miles away and she followed me! Now I realize that is when things with DD started going down hill. I thought it was just teenage stuff... but I believe now it was more grandma's undermining that is the problem. I just don't know what to do. My mother does not support me or my parenting. I fully believe trying to bring her back here would involve the police and my mother fighting me tooth and nail. I believe that my daughter would run away back to grandma's and in the long run this would cause even more damage to our relationship such as it is.
I think the whole thing is a big, dysfuctional drama mess - and as the adult who sees it for what it is - you are going to have to be the one to find a way out.

Not everyone lives this way. You can change.

As per the money - I think you are carrying baggage around from your brother. I wonder if it is clouding your vision? (said gently)

The money in question is for shampoo and such. In my opinion it is your legal and moral obligation to provide money for toiletries. I would not with-hold money for necessary items such as clothes, food, toiletries, etc.

I am not sure I would punish a child for spitting on me - particualrly at 15. I would let them know how hurt I was, how disrespectfull it was, and how that was never to happen again.

It is possible I would allow a natural consequence to happen (such as: "I know we are supposed to go to the movies today - but I really do not feel like going on an outing with someone who has such animousity".

I really don't think you need to muddy the waters by inserting money issues into a behaviour that is not money related.

None of this is meant to flame you. You really sound angry - but I bet you are also sad and overwhlmed. Good luck mama


Kathy
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I am not sure I would punish a child for spitting on me - particualrly at 15. I would let them know how hurt I was, how disrespectfull it was, and how that was never to happen again.

It is possible I would allow a natural consequence to happen (such as: "I know we are supposed to go to the movies today - but I really do not feel like going on an outing with someone who has such animousity".
That is the point. She was trying to hurt me. She knows it was disrespectful that was the whole point.

As for the rest of what you said, I will think it over. I still feel giving in to her will teacher her she can continue to treat me this way and get what she wants.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aniT View Post
That is the point. She was trying to hurt me. She knows it was disrespectful that was the whole point.

As for the rest of what you said, I will think it over. I still feel giving in to her will teacher her she can continue to treat me this way and get what she wants.
TBH - I think you goofed in linking the spitting with money (we all goof sometimes) - but seeing as you have already gone there....

You might have a case for holding the course at this moment.

here is what I would do:

-buy her toilettries and give them to her
-do not hand her cash
-let her know you have fulfilled the requirement to supply necesssities
-move on.
-do not link link cash and behaviour in the future - I think it is a bad idea for anybody, but given your family history, it is really questionable.

Is there a thrid option you are missing? She won't live with you, and grandma's place is quite toxic....how about boarding school or a student exchange of some sort? I do not know if you can afford it - but it may be worth considerring.

Kathy
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
I think the whole thing is a big, dysfuctional drama mess - and as the adult who sees it for what it is - you are going to have to be the one to find a way out.

Not everyone lives this way. You can change.

As per the money - I think you are carrying baggage around from your brother. I wonder if it is clouding your vision? (said gently)

The money in question is for shampoo and such. In my opinion it is your legal and moral obligation to provide money for toiletries. I would not with-hold money for necessary items such as clothes, food, toiletries, etc.

I am not sure I would punish a child for spitting on me - particualrly at 15. I would let them know how hurt I was, how disrespectfull it was, and how that was never to happen again.

It is possible I would allow a natural consequence to happen (such as: "I know we are supposed to go to the movies today - but I really do not feel like going on an outing with someone who has such animousity".

I really don't think you need to muddy the waters by inserting money issues into a behaviour that is not money related.

None of this is meant to flame you. You really sound angry - but I bet you are also sad and overwhlmed. Good luck mama


Kathy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
TBH - I think you goofed in linking the spitting with money (we all goof sometimes) - but seeing as you have already gone there....

You might have a case for holding the course at this moment.

here is what I would do:

-buy her toilettries and give them to her
-do not hand her cash
-let her know you have fulfilled the requirement to supply necesssities
-move on.
-do not link link cash and behaviour in the future - I think it is a bad idea for anybody, but given your family history, it is really questionable.

Is there a thrid option you are missing? She won't live with you, and grandma's place is quite toxic....how about boarding school or a student exchange of some sort? I do not know if you can afford it - but it may be worth considerring.

Kathy
I can't afford it. I have been asking DH for MONTHS to win the lottery so I could send her to boarding school.
I honestly think it would be a very good option at the moment. It would get her away from her Uncle and her Grandma. It would give her the independence she craves and the peace to work on her studies which she claims she doens't have here.

Do student exchanges cost money? That is something I haven't considered and might look into. Unfortunately at the moment, we are like everyone else.. trying to scrape by. I have spent the last 2 pay days trying to figure out where DH's raise went. I think the raise in utilities and food ate it and then some.
 

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This sounds like a very trying situation all around.

Another option with the money would be to give her $8 or $9 instead of the $10 you promised her. This way, she still gets enough to cover the basics, but there's a consequence for the disrespectful behavior.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
....here is what I would do:

-buy her toilettries and give them to her
-do not hand her cash
-let her know you have fulfilled the requirement to supply necesssities
-move on.
-do not link link cash and behaviour in the future - I think it is a bad idea for anybody, but given your family history, it is really questionable....
I agree that you should not give her cash. If she needs something, you're more than willing to get it for her. I'd also NOT buy her brand name stuff, but rip-off alternatives. Kids her age are usually very brand-specific. Basically, you'll fulfill your duties as a parent, but you don't have to be catering about it.

I'd look into finding out if you can legally keep your mother away from your daughter. You need to bring her home, with pre-established rules; freedoms and pre-determined consequences. It's going to be a fight for three years (so be ready for it); and yeah, she'll be mad because your mother is obviously letting her run wild. That's not good. You need to do what's best for her, and it's pretty clear that getting her away from (and keeping her away from) your mother is necessary. Look into restraining orders if you have to.
 

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Yup-I agree with previous posters. I would not withhold the money for toiletries from her as that is sure to be used against you later and when dealing with oppositional kids and teens in general it is so important that you keep your word. If you said you'd give her money on Monday then you have to make good on that. She has cause to be angry, not to spit on you, but you did let her down and she is constantly checking to see if you are going to be there for her and respond in the ways your mother her grandmother has told her that you are. So you have to work extra hard not to confirm her expectation that you will behave like a crazy, unreliable person she has been told falsely that you are. You should totally not take her out in public to the movies. I might take her to the store to buy her toiletries with the agreement that no drama. I'd spend time with her in private until you can trust she won't make a huge scene. I would not punish her though by not spending time or the $10. She needs good times with you to get thru this.

My suggestion would be that she live with a neutral party and get some help because your relationship has been damaged by the separate living and whatever led up to that. Grandma's place doesn't sound like a good option as it undermines your authority as her mom. It sounds like you had trouble when she lived at home. I'd expect the same or worse drama if you bring her home against her will. You need someone who won't badmouth either of you to help give her a place to stay while you guys while you try to mend things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Labbemama View Post
AniT,
How are things going?
Well she came over and stayed the night with the kids Fri. and was fairly pleasant until morning. Then she demanded I take her "home" and was being mean to her sisters. She was hungry and couldn't eat our food becuase I wont buy Special K or pasturized milk. Sigh. She has piano lessons again today.. hopefully she doesn't come over in a rotten mood.

As for a natural party for her to live with.. I don't have one.
 

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This is a very small thing, and you may not want to do it.

But could you get a box of Special K and a very small bottle of pasturized milk just for her? It might her feel like you are trying to make her feel welcome, at home, does that make sense?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by tinybutterfly View Post
This is a very small thing, and you may not want to do it.

But could you get a box of Special K and a very small bottle of pasturized milk just for her? It might her feel like you are trying to make her feel welcome, at home, does that make sense?

Well the problem is the other kids would eat it when she isn't here. I do buy her a 2liter bottle of soda and some dorittos usually.... this week I was broke. Maybe I can get some of those small personal boxes and put them in the garage where the others wont see it. I haven't seen organic milk smaller than a half gallon. Maybe I will look next time I go to Trader Joes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
She just texted me that she stayed home from school again today cause she is getting depressed. I offered to take her back to the councilor I took her too in the fall but she hasn't answered.

I missed AT LEAST one day a week of school for all four years I was in high school. I don't know why it surprises me that my mother lets her stay home all the damn time. Last week my mother emailed me that DD was having a "relapse" of strep (from two months ago). I ignored her because I am sure my mother the hypochondriac, doctor loving, pills will solve everything wanted me to take her to the doctor. She was fine the next day.
 
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