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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My boss just said this to me about my son.<br><br>
A little background. He has a son with Asperger's.<br><br>
My son is speech delayed and undergoing speech therapy. He's 23 months with 1 word.<br><br>
My boss and I were talking about his son's progress and how high functioning he is - and I asked how his son's asperger's manifests itself in school (he's in kindergarten). He said it's really a social issue for him. Then, he asked how my son's ST was going and said - the above -. I said, "really?" Then he asked how DS's poops were. When I said usually soft, he's still breastfed - he became insistent that it could be a yeast overgrowth and that was most likely causing his neuro issues. (!!!)<br><br>
Can someone shed light on all this? I mean I understand about the diet and the link between gut issues and autism - but why would someone assume that just because he's speech delayed with soft poop, he's on the spectrum?<br><br>
Other things to note:<br>
DS's receptive speech is excellent<br>
his fine/gross motor skills are above average<br>
he does not like 'playing' with other kids (he's 23 months)<br>
he loves to hug and cuddle and wave<br>
he sleeps great and follows routine (and breaks routine) with ease<br>
he has no typical markers for autism<br>
(stimming, lining up toys, zoning out, tantrums, etc)<br><br>
Advice? Perspectives? Thoughts? Anything?
 

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SOunds like a little kid with a speech delay to me. I think your boss is incorrect.<br><br>
Bede had zero receptive speech and very little expressive speech at 23mo.<br><br>
Does your son point, gesture or sign or have any other non-verbal communication abilities?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>feebeeglee</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8129621"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">SOunds like a little kid with a speech delay to me. I think your boss is incorrect.<br><br>
Bede had zero receptive speech and very little expressive speech at 23mo.<br><br>
Does your son point, gesture or sign or have any other non-verbal communication abilities?</div>
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Yes. He signs, points, moves my face so I look him in the eye when he thinks I'm not paying attention to him, grabs my hand and takes me to what he wants, etc.<br><br>
His one true word is mom but he doesn't call me mom - he just repeats it to himself when he's happy with something I'm doing. "mommommommom"
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>logan&jordansmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8129723"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's an awful big thing to say about someone who is speech delayed with soft poop! He may be he may not be. Geez, that would bug me, sorry.</div>
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Yeah it bugged me, too - mostly because there are so many varying symptoms and degrees of autism. If he is on the spectrum, I just want to know! But no specialist who has seen him has thought so. No person in contact with him has ever expressed concern. But he'd rather "dance" to the hum of the air conditioner or climb up and down the stairs than play with the water table or in the sandbox with the other toddlers.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:
 

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It is hard to truly diagnose Autism at that age. What kinds of docs had your child seen? The only people who ever mentioned Autism and specifically Asperger's were Ped. Neurologists and a Clinical Psychologist for my son who is Aspie all the way. He was already 5 when I saw these and the Ped. Neuro had also seen him when he was 2 and did not diagnose ASD just a simple Speech Delay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>taz925</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8129913"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It is hard to truly diagnose Autism at that age. What kinds of docs had your child seen? The only people who ever mentioned Autism and specifically Asperger's were Ped. Neurologists and a Clinical Psychologist for my son who is Aspie all the way. He was already 5 when I saw these and the Ped. Neuro had also seen him when he was 2 and did not diagnose ASD just a simple Speech Delay.</div>
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I'm sorry I didn't totally follow the last part. Are you saying at 2 yrs. old your son saw a Ped. Neurologist who only diagnosed a speech delay? Did you see a Ped Neuro becuase of his speech delay?<br><br>
My son has only seen his pediatrician and the early intervention therapists.<br><br>
edited: I know I wrote 'specialist' but he really hasn't seen a specialist. I meant doctor/therapist - someone who is trained to recognize at least some signs of autism.
 

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And here I am again! I read the thread title, and thought "oh, good one" and then saw it was you. Hi, Friend.<br><br>
Yeah, lessee, speech delay and soft poop. Yup. That's us. And we are now getting the same responses from A) the pediatrican B) all the in-laws. Everyone else thinks there is No Way she's autistic. Since we can rule out the in-laws (trust me on this), that only leaves one person who thinks "maybe."<br><br>
As perhaps I have mentioned around here, our neurologist appointment is June 7th. Expect results on the equation: speech delay + soft poop = autism
 

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at that age my son was just speech delayed, sensory-disordered, and a sleepless soft-poo guy. I suspected autism but early intervention (etc) said he was fine.<br><br>
Well, 2 years later he's diagnosed and gets a boatlaod of special services. He's very verbal now but he is clearly ASD.<br><br><br>
If your gut tells you the boss's guess may be right, don't entrust EI or your regular doc to find it. You need a dev ped or nueropsych who specializes in early ASD diagnosis. Nobody else is qualified and the early cases especially take more expertise to diagnose. If you posted this b/c you have a feeling there may be something to this, don't be like me and waste a year or two because EI wasn't sophisticated enough to recognize a less-classic case.
 

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I never knew "soft poo" was a sign of being on the spectrum.<br>
My son is a bad sleeper, soft poo and has sensory issues that he is OT for.<br>
He is hopefully going to get speech evaluation soon as his OT said that would be a good idea. If he has those above is it a good idea to get a diagnosis?
 

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I wouldn't worry about it.<br><br>
My son has huge receptive language problems. And slight vestibular seeking behaviour (he likes to spin). And no pointing or waving until well past 3. Obviously expressive language is crooked too. He didn't care much about other children at 23 months - it's too early anyway. By the age of 4 he couldn't live without his friends though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">.<br><br>
Relax. Not every delay is 'on the spectrum'. Certainly not every language delay.
 

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That's just annoying. Every schmo these days thinks they can diagnose autism, and, even worse, they all seem to REALLY want to - and, oh, a speech delay! Everyone goes straight for autism with the speech delays. That's what happened to us too. At 1 years old our babysitter (!) said she thought he might be on the spectrum. I about threw up, then wanted to strangle her, and then went into despair. I hadn't been thinking anything was abnormal at all - sure he was a little different, but nothing was worrisome. That moment was the beginning of a very long journey of losing my instincts about him entirely, and then, once he turned 3, slowly building faith in myself again to get them back.<br><br>
Here's my advice: try really hard not to obsess on this. That's what I did and wound up losing his whole second year and a half to worrying and "evaluating" his every move rather than just enjoying him. And there's so much to enjoy. I regret that now that he's older and so obviously "okay," albeit a very different kind of kid. Officially, he has a PDD-NOS dx, which does put him on the spectrum, but now that he's older and I can see who he is better, that's not such a scary thing anymore.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kchoffmann</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8131928"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's just annoying. Every schmo these days thinks they can diagnose autism, and, even worse, they all seem to REALLY want to - and, oh, a speech delay! Everyone goes straight for autism with the speech delays. That's what happened to us too. At 1 years old our babysitter (!) said she thought he might be on the spectrum. I about threw up, then wanted to strangle her, and then went into despair. I hadn't been thinking anything was abnormal at all - sure he was a little different, but nothing was worrisome. That moment was the beginning of a very long journey of losing my instincts about him entirely, and then, once he turned 3, slowly building faith in myself again to get them back.<br><br>
Here's my advice: try really hard not to obsess on this. That's what I did and wound up losing his whole second year and a half to worrying and "evaluating" his every move rather than just enjoying him. And there's so much to enjoy. I regret that now that he's older and so obviously "okay," albeit a very different kind of kid. Officially, he has a PDD-NOS dx, which does put him on the spectrum, but now that he's older and I can see who he is better, that's not such a scary thing anymore.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:<br><br><br><br>
Just because he has squishy poop and a speech delay does not a spectrum dx make.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kchoffmann</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8131928"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That moment was the beginning of a very long journey of losing my instincts about him entirely</div>
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(heavy sigh)<br><br>
Yup. I'm right there. I really don't know what I think anymore.<br><br><br>
To answer a PP - The only thing I really know about the soft poo issue is that soft poo is a symptom of yeast overgrowth. And yeast overgrowth is a factor in autism somehow. Soft poo also happens to be a result of nursing 8 times a day (which he does) and eating his weight in fruit everyday(which he also does). However, eating alot of fruit can feed a yeast problem...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:
 

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I think your boss is wrong--if your child did none of the things on the list except tantrum frequently or if you've always been kind of worried that maybe there's something going on, then that would be different. While I think your boss shouldn't have said what he did, I've been through the always wondering what's wrong, getting referred to a pediatric gastroenterologist at 4 1/2 for ongoing constipation and related encopresis, Tourette's Syndrome dx process beginning shortly afterwards, ADHD around 5 1/2 with everybody all along saying that "he really doesn't seem autistic" and the OT frequently saying that his sensory issues and fine motor issues don't seem all that bad, even though his drawing is far from age expected. Suddenly at 6 1/2 Asperger's makes a lot of sense to our therapist, a speech evaluation makes a dx of social pragrmatic speech disorder along with the disarticulation and dysfluency. So I can understand your boss seeing "spectrum" in the stories of all kinds of kids--it happens when it's what you are tuned into and you wish you had had some clarity when your child was younger and therefore want others to learn sooner.<br><br>
The only milestone my son missed was not doing 2 word sentences by 2--and I definitely felt like I taught him to speak to a large extent...it wasn't just something he did naturally when it came to putting words together. Honestly, though, if he didn't tantrum and coped with, you know, group situations, transitions, the fact that he can't expect to dictate to everyone what he wants them to do and have them do it, if he didn't have some pretty intense and sometimes quite unusual anxieties--I would have no need to know if he were on the spectrum.<br><br>
With the poop issues, while it's very controversial, the theory that the yeast overgrowth causes the neurological issues that are associated with it is a theory without any strong factual support that I know of. People with different brain chemistry that manifests in conditions that include autism, OCD, depression, ADHD, and probably others, but I know there is data on those, are more likely to have bowel issues of a number of sorts. Some people assume that the bowel issues cause the neurological ones, but I believe it's more the case that the brain and the gut are connected in complex ways that we don't fully understand. People with OCD or depression who get treated with meds often find that it helps their bowel issues as well, and I think there's significant evidence that serotonin levels affect intestinal function, for example. In other words, it may turn out that having an atypical brain biochemistry makes one more likely to have GI issues.<br><br>
Sherri
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mendocino</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8129977"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm sorry I didn't totally follow the last part. Are you saying at 2 yrs. old your son saw a Ped. Neurologist who only diagnosed a speech delay? Did you see a Ped Neuro becuase of his speech delay?<br><br>
My son has only seen his pediatrician and the early intervention therapists.<br><br>
edited: I know I wrote 'specialist' but he really hasn't seen a specialist. I meant doctor/therapist - someone who is trained to recognize at least some signs of autism.</div>
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To answer your question, yes I am saying he was diagnosed w/ speech delay. When he was just over 2, we called EI because he was not putting any words together and did not have many words at all. So, we took him to the Ped. Neuro and she said it was just a speech delay and that what EI had planned was great. So they do theit therapy until he was 3 when the Publis School takes over. He went to the "Speech and Language Delay" class for 3 years. We have to do a tri-annual evaluation for school. They ask for a Neurologist evaluation to help them decide if he will stay in Special Needs so we went to the same Ped. Neuro and she said Autism. So yes the same doctor now said ASD several years later.<br><br>
I am not saying your child has ASD. I am just sharing how things went for my son in the hope that if you think he has ASD, get him evaluated by the correct kind of doctor. Information is power. ASD kids need all the help they can get and the sooner the better. We wasted very valuable time thinking it was "just a speech delay." I really hope i have not confused you further with my clarification.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Literate</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8130645"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And here I am again! I read the thread title, and thought "oh, good one" and then saw it was you. Hi, Friend.<br><br>
Yeah, lessee, speech delay and soft poop. Yup. That's us. And we are now getting the same responses from A) the pediatrican B) all the in-laws. Everyone else thinks there is No Way she's autistic. Since we can rule out the in-laws (trust me on this), that only leaves one person who thinks "maybe."<br><br>
As perhaps I have mentioned around here, our neurologist appointment is June 7th. Expect results on the equation: speech delay + soft poop = autism</div>
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Hi Friend <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"><br><br>
I wonder if I should be requesting an appointment with a neurologist? I have good insurance, so why not?<br><br>
I guess this is why it's so hard to dx autism at this age. Toddler behavior is pretty similar. I know there are severe and typical cases that have obvious markers for this age but as Taz wrote - a <b>neurologist</b> said no autism at 2 and then recanted.<br><br>
What are the behaviors that can be identified if he doesn't have the obvious ones?<br><br>
-no unexplained tantrums<br>
-no GI issues other than soft poop (forgot to mention we're vegan - lots of fruit)<br>
-no sleep issues<br>
-no motor issues<br>
-no eye contact issues<br>
-no "off in his own little world"<br>
-no unbreakable routines<br>
-never sits still and watches anything<br><br>
But...toddler behaviors:<br>
-freaks out if I even look at my computer or phone<br>
-pulls me out of social situations so we can be alone (single mama, only child)<br>
-doesn't like loud kids (our house is always very quiet)<br>
-cries and hugs me when other kids scream or cry (no other noise issues)<br>
-obsessed with ladders and climbing<br>
-doesn't play with toys unless I engage him with one and then loses interest very quickly<br>
-loves to clean up<br>
-never sits still<br><br>
He's very smart. Amazing memory. Lovable. Social with adults.<br><br>
I guess I should take the advice of the pp and try to just enjoy how wonderful he is without the "but". I just don't want to miss any time if doing something now can help, you know?<br><br>
Literate, please keep me posted on your DD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JohannasGarden</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8134056"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think your boss is wrong--if your child did none of the things on the list except tantrum frequently or if you've always been kind of worried that maybe there's something going on, then that would be different. While I think your boss shouldn't have said what he did, I've been through the always wondering what's wrong, getting referred to a pediatric gastroenterologist at 4 1/2 for ongoing constipation and related encopresis, Tourette's Syndrome dx process beginning shortly afterwards, ADHD around 5 1/2 with everybody all along saying that "he really doesn't seem autistic" and the OT frequently saying that his sensory issues and fine motor issues don't seem all that bad, even though his drawing is far from age expected. Suddenly at 6 1/2 Asperger's makes a lot of sense to our therapist, a speech evaluation makes a dx of social pragrmatic speech disorder along with the disarticulation and dysfluency. So I can understand your boss seeing "spectrum" in the stories of all kinds of kids--it happens when it's what you are tuned into and you wish you had had some clarity when your child was younger and therefore want others to learn sooner.<br><br>
The only milestone my son missed was not doing 2 word sentences by 2--and I definitely felt like I taught him to speak to a large extent...it wasn't just something he did naturally when it came to putting words together. Honestly, though, if he didn't tantrum and coped with, you know, group situations, transitions, the fact that he can't expect to dictate to everyone what he wants them to do and have them do it, if he didn't have some pretty intense and sometimes quite unusual anxieties--I would have no need to know if he were on the spectrum.<br><br>
With the poop issues, while it's very controversial, the theory that the yeast overgrowth causes the neurological issues that are associated with it is a theory without any strong factual support that I know of. People with different brain chemistry that manifests in conditions that include autism, OCD, depression, ADHD, and probably others, but I know there is data on those, are more likely to have bowel issues of a number of sorts. Some people assume that the bowel issues cause the neurological ones, but I believe it's more the case that the brain and the gut are connected in complex ways that we don't fully understand. People with OCD or depression who get treated with meds often find that it helps their bowel issues as well, and I think there's significant evidence that serotonin levels affect intestinal function, for example. In other words, it may turn out that having an atypical brain biochemistry makes one more likely to have GI issues.<br><br>
Sherri</div>
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Thank you so much for your post - I needed to hear alot of what you said.<br><br>
This "if he didn't have some pretty intense and sometimes quite unusual anxieties--I would have no need to know if he were on the spectrum." makes perfect sense to me. Perfect. However you have the privilege of hindsight. What I mean is, at this point, I have no idea how any of this will mainfest itself later in his life. If I knew that things would stay the same - he'll be an empathic, sensitive, smart loving boy with speech/language issues - I could rest a bit easier. But not knowing if things will get worse - and then consequently regretting that I didn't do everything as early as possible, is the thing I worry most about.<br><br>
Honestly, all of this makes me wonder if <b>I'm</b> the one with anxiety and issues. Not him! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy">
 

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<a href="http://discovermagazine.com/2007/apr/autism-it2019s-not-just-in-the-head" target="_blank">http://discovermagazine.com/2007/apr...st-in-the-head</a><br><br>
don't recall if there was discussion here when this article came out re: gut and immune issues in autism.<br><br><br>
soft poo is also related to leaky gut syndrome, where the intestinal wall lets larger molecules (food, bacteria) into the bloodstream, causing immune issues, allergies, and malabsortion of nutrients<br><a href="http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C22114.html" target="_blank">http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C22114.html</a><br><a href="http://www.usautism.org/USAAA_Newsletter/mechanisms_behind_the_leaky_gut.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.usautism.org/USAAA_Newsle..._leaky_gut.pdf</a>
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mendocino</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8135713"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I just don't want to miss any time if doing something now can help, you know?</div>
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How about this? Get a book about floortime, which is really just good parenting mixed with play (although, try not to obsess about the dx chapters and just focus on how to do floortime). Use lots and lots of declarative language instead of imperative language - for example, "it's cold outside. We need to wear our coats" vs. "Put your coat on." Declarative language doesn't require your DC to answer and allows him to learn language's purpose as experience sharing rather than just getting his needs met (which is what ST teach). Use daily moments to have back and forth engagement, such as turn taking or coordinating movements (like marching together around the room). These are all the sorts of things that would help him get joy from connection and learn to follow a caregiver's lead, if indeed there is a deficit in these areas. So much of the "therapies" out there are just common sense approaches to play. If you do even just a little bit of reading, you'll figure it out.<br><br>
Also know that the whole notion that there's a small window of learning that opens and closes in early childhood and then is gone is a myth. If indeed you decide to wait and see and then it turns out there is atypical development going on, you won't be "too late" in getting him services.<br><br>
Oh, and one more thing I wanted to say about the whole soft poo bs - this is what I meant when I said if there's a speech delay, suddenly everything must mean autism: does he like spinning in circles too? Uh-oh, must be autism. Does he like flashing lights? Gotta be autism. Does he have tantrums? Autism! So, please, forget the whole soft poo theory for now. Plenty of toddlers have soft poo. And like to spin, watch flashing lights, etc
 
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