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DD threw up all over everywhere in the car the other day...we have been using our spare care seat, until i get the Britax cleaned. I remember hearing somewhere that you shouldn't wash the straps in the washing machine, so could i soak them in some soapy water? I don't think a damp rag is going to get it cleaned up at all. THanks!
 

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The only acceptable way to clean harness straps is to wipe with a damp cloth/sponge.

Washing the straps in a washing machine, dishwasher, soaking the straps in water or cleaner, using bleach, or using harsh detergents can compromise the fibres and is not considered safe.

Your manual should have instructions on how to clean the harness straps in the Care and Maintenance section.

Example on pg. 36 from a manual for a Marathon from the Britax USA website:

http://www.britaxusa.com/uploads/pro...-guides/10.pdf
 

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Yup, if you washed them in the washing machine they are no longer safe. You need to get new straps. If you were in an accident adn they failed, I think you'd be pissed you didn't spend the $20 or so for new ones.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
I recommend washing them with soap and water just as in the manual. But washing them in the machine does not make them unsafe. I recently had to find out exactly what applies. The information is 100% reliable and does not come from a consumer, it comes from someone with first hand knowledge of the safety issue.

And NO, I'm not wrong about this. I would obviously never speculate regarding something as serious as this unless it was 100% correct.

You still believe front seat installs of rear facing seats without airbags are unsafe and harnessing older kids is far safer than HBB. People who work with these safety issues every day laugh about those statements. Don't believe you always have all the right answers.
Ditto?


In general un-named and undisclosed sources around here aren't considered reliable. You want to be believed back it up with a name and an article.

It's almost like saying you chose to never use sunscreen because your brother in law's sister's cousin's best friend said that sunscreen is nothing but a money making scheme and her testing showed her kids didn't get skin cancer when they grew up, so don't worry about it. (I could choose another example, but in the interest of not completely side tracking the conversation, I'm not going to.)

Anything said in a public forum is "on the record." Manufacturers obviously have reasons for giving the instructions they do in their manuals. Feel free to bend them with your own kids, but don't advocate it for other's. Because he said she said just isn't good enough when it comes to someone else's kids. And if you're not bending the rules with your own kids, perhaps you shouldn't tell others it's ok.


I don't really give a care how many thousands of swedish kids ride around rf'ing in the front seat. In North America - in most vehicles, it's not safe. That is a well researched fact that is easy enough to pull up on your own from public sources. Until you come up with public sources of your own, this argument will never go away and you'll be disagreed with every time the blanket statement of front seat being as safe (without an airbag,) as back seat is made.

For all I know you might be right about the straps, but without hard data it's not a risk I'm going to take. Why would I take a risk I don't need to? Obviously the manufacturers consider it a risk or they wouldn't be so specific in how to care for the straps. I don't have their data either - but I do trust them because they know their seats and they did the crash testing on them.

:
 

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Time, effort, and a sponge with plenty of clean changes of water. That's what has worked for us.

I wouldn't use Febreze. That stuff is nasty and I don't want it anywhere near my kiddo's face. The car seat flame retardants are bad enough--why add to the toxicity?
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jocelyndale View Post
Time, effort, and a sponge with plenty of clean changes of water. That's what has worked for us.

I wouldn't use Febreze. That stuff is nasty and I don't want it anywhere near my kiddo's face. The car seat flame retardants are bad enough--why add to the toxicity?

I agree. My DH has sprayed febreeze on his vehicle seats and it is awful. I serioulsy cannot ride in his car afterwards. I have a hard time breathing and feel like crap.

Definitely would not want it on the car seat straps so close to my kids' airway. The smell of puke would be better than that
 

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Quote:
I don't really give a care how many thousands of swedish kids ride around rf'ing in the front seat. In North America - in most vehicles, it's not safe. That is a well researched fact that is easy enough to pull up on your own from public sources. Until you come up with public sources of your own, this argument will never go away and you'll be disagreed with every time the blanket statement of front seat being as safe
......again, different seats, designed differently...theirs are designed to hang off the seat edge rear facing and to brace against the front dashboard. Ours (US) our designed to sit fully on the seat and (in most cases) unbraced. Who knows what differences may also exist in the harnesses? and maybe Britax only put that in there to avoid being sued, in our sue-happy country? But like you said, why take the chance? Not with my kid.....someone else can test. In ALL cases it's best to follow the manual & recommendations for YOUR particular seat and vehicle.... my two cents.
 

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Quote:
I don't really give a care how many thousands of swedish kids ride around rf'ing in the front seat. In North America - in most vehicles, it's not safe. That is a well researched fact that is easy enough to pull up on your own from public sources.
You do know people who work with this, at crash test institutes and making car seats, are laughing at your incorrect suggestions? This is what happens when I bring up your comment. All research point to the opposite of what you are saying, it shows rear facing a child in the front seat without airbag is perfectly safe. You asked for research, I've included quotes from many prestigious organizations below.

Kids who are not rear facing has nothing to do in the front seat. Kids who are REAR FACING are as safe or safer in the front seat and this has been proven during the past 30+ years (airbag disabled). There is no research which says front seat is a bad place for rear facing kids. You say it's widely available and a fact, that's completely untrue and you know it. Statements like that go against all experts in the field and is making you look poorly informed.

I lived half my life in US and know many airbags can't be disabled. That doesn't change the fact that it's still safe if the airbag is disabled. If you can't disable your airbag, never place your child in the front seat. Is that difficult to understand? US has no experience with rear facing seats in the front seats. There is plenty of experience with parents who stick their 4 year old in front seat with just a seat belt. That's of course completely unacceptable but somehow you seem to be mixing this up with REAR FACING car seats in the front seat without airbag

Using a rear facing car seat in the front seat of a car is as safe or safer than the rear seat (AIBAG DISABLED). I have given proof of accidents stats, recommendations from manufacturers of car seats, recommendations of manufacturers of cars, and recommendations of the best crash test institutes and safety organizations around. What else do you want? Open up a manual of a rear facing Swedish seat and you will find instructions for how to put it in a front seat. How can you possibly believe they would put it in there unless it was ultra safe? One million car seats used, a high percentage in front seat, and still not one single death in a frontal collision of a correctly installed seat. High percentage of rear facing kids in front seat and 2 children dead during a whole year in ages 0-6. That's convincing to most. There is nothing magical with cars here or there, except many airbags can't be disabled in US/Canada

Are you really so naive you don't understand that Britax, Graco, BeSafe, Maxi Cosi, Brio, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW, Saab, VTi, NTF, Vagverket, and countless others wouldn't recommend installing rear facing car seats in the front unless it was extremely safe? You must not have much business experience, can you imagine the liability implications? If one child is hurt, and front seat was actually dangerous, those companies are all finished.

Below you will find some quotes from well respected sources regarding rear facing in front seat. I'm sure you will brush this off as well, these manufacturers and organizations must not have a clue what they are talking about. You must surely know better. First quote comes from a company you might have heard of, Britax, and is actually quite diplomatic.

Summary in English can be found below.

From Britax:

S

Quote:
tatens Väg och Transportforsknings Institut (VTI) och Nationalföreningen för
Trafiksäkerhetens Främjande (NTF) utför krocktester och granskar svårt krockade bilar.
De anser att en bilbarnstol som placeras bakåtvänd i framsätet har en bra placering.
From Folksam (large insurance company very involved in car seat research

Sätt barnet bakåtvänt
Risken att små barn dödas eller skadas svårt är 5 gånger större i framåtvända stolar än i bakåtvända. Det visar både vår egen och andras forskning. Säkrast är att åka bakåtvänt i framsätet med urkopplad krockkudde.


From VTI (Crash test facility)

Quote:
Ur krocksäkerhetssynpunkt finns flera fördelar att ha barnet i framsäte utan krockkudde. Skaderisken är något lägre vid en frontalkrock om barnet sitter i en bakåtvänd stol lutad mot instrumentpanelen, jämfört med en bakåtvänd bilbarnstol i baksätet lutad mot framstolens ryggstöd.
From BeSafe (well respected car seat manufacturer in Europe)

Quote:
Placeringen av bilbarnstol i främre eller bakre passagerarsätet är likvärdig ur krocksäkerhetssynpunkt. Däremot medger framsätet oftast större benutrymme, vilket gör att barn kan åka bakåtvänt högre upp i åldern. Därför ska vi så långt som möjligt tillgodose föräldrarnas krav på tillgänglighet till såväl främre som bakre passagerarsätena.
From Vägverket (NHTSA over here)



Quote:
Ska barn sitta i framsätet eller baksätet?
Baksätet är som regel säkrast - om man bara ser till riskerna vid en krock. Men det gäller inte för barn i bakåtvända bilbarnstolar. Under förutsättning att passagerarkrockkudden är avstängd finns ingen skillnad i krocksäkerhet mellan fram- och baksätet.

From Folksam, Insurance company involved in research

Var är det säkrast att sitta?
I fram- eller baksätet?
Under förutsättning att krockkudden
är avstängd, är det ingen större skillnad
säkerhetsmässigt mellan fram-
och baksätet.


From Volvo:


Quote:
Var i bilen är det bäst att babyn sitter?
I en Volvo är alla platser lika säkra, det beror mer
på andra omständigheter var du placerar babyn.
[/I]
[/QUOTE]
.
From Vägverket (NHTSA over here):

Quote:
(Newborn to 9 months):

Fram eller Baksätet
Babyskyddet placeras bakåtvänt i fram eller baksätet. För den som är ensam vuxeni bilen är det oftast tryggast att ha det lilla barnet brdvid sig i framsätet. Krockkudden på passagerarplatsen ska då vara urkopplad.

From VTI: (one of the most respected crash test facilities in the world. Crash testing and advocate of rear facing since 1965)

Quote:

Rent allmänt anses dock placering i framsätet gynna trafiksäkerheten jämfört med att föraren skall försöka kontrollera ett krånglande barn i baksätet.

Since you and others don't speak Swedish, and I don't have time to translate, I can sum up the quotes for you. Rear facing a car seat in the front seat is perfectly safe and often also recommended (airbag disabled).

How many more quotes do you need? How much more convincing safety statistics do you want? Some people won't be convinced regardless of evidence. Earth has been proven to be round but there are still plenty of people who still claim it's flat.

This has also been proven, there is real life data which supports all this. Not only crash testing in labs. I'm sure you'll brush this off as well though. Isn't it weird these experienced organizations are saying front seat is fine? Even stranger is the unbelievable safety record with a high percentage of kids in the front seat. But you must surely be right?

The issue of safety of rear facing car seats in front seats are not even debated in crash test institutes any longer because researchers know it's safe (airbag disabled). THat's right, among the people who work with this it's not an issue. You don't even know the basic facts that rear facing seats were BUILT TO BE INSTALLED IN THE FRONT SEAT LEANING AGAINST THE DASHBOARD.

So far I have not met anyone on different boards who speak to, or are that interested in finding out more, people at crash test institutes and know people who have lifelong experience working with all aspects of car seat safety. On several different continents. I'm not talking about store clerks or paper pushers somewhere, it's people with real experience. None of the information I share is from me, I don't make this up. This comes from people who know and have been working a very long time with precisely these issues.

Techs are very nice, do nice work, and are very helpful. I have lots of respect for almost every single one. But they also say some things that are flat out wrong. Like the issue of front seat installs and harnessing older kids being so much safer. People in the know laugh at this as well when it's brought up.

Over to the puky harness. Nothing will happen to a harness which is washed in a machine under normal circumstances. If you put in 10 gallons of detergent I don't know what will happen. I've read the manual and I recommend everyone follow those instructions. But you must understand that many parents don't even read the manual and do all kinds of things that shouldn't be done. If a harness was unsafe after washing it once there would be countless kids dying and also countless multo billion law suits. The harness is not any less safe after being washed in a machine, this comes from people who know first hand.

If you call customer service at your favorite manufacturer they will tell you to follow the manual (which is a good idea).

One huge problem with safety in US and Canada is that it can barely be discussed due to liability issues. You are obviously not aware of this. Companies and manufactures try to say as little as possible and be as diplomatic as possible due to liability. Liability in rest of the world is easy to handle, US and Canada is a nightmare and demands a completely different approach.

Not being able to discuss safety openly and recommend other options is not good in the long run. It's bad for safety. But there is really no other way due to the legal system and the liability issues.

You can argue forever about the dangers of front seat install being dangerous in cars with airbag disabled. It will still be wrong. Research and safety statistics proves the exact opposite. Although it's very entertaining for those who work with this to read about opinions like yours. They have long ago proven and concluded it's perfectly safe.

Have a great weekend, thanks for the entertaining debate, and see you at he other boards. I think you're very helpful and knowledgeable asset to parents and I know you mean well with what you trying to say.
 

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventuredad View Post
You can argue forever about the dangers of front seat install being dangerous in cars with airbag disabled. It will still be wrong. Research and safety statistics proves the exact opposite. Although it's very entertaining for those who work with this to read about opinions like yours. They have long ago proven and concluded it's perfectly safe.
While I don't want to further derail this thread, but I'm genuinely puzzled by this statement. I've seen your posts on another board and enjoy the info you share with us, and I know that Sweden has pretty much the best track record in the world for child passenger safety, so I don't doubt you out of sheer stubborness. I drive a Volvo, and my 3.5 year old and almost 15 month old are still rear-facing, and the Swedish model of safety definitely influenced my decision to keep them RF. I see you have supplied us with well-researched and documented data in Sweden.

I like to use numbers and statistical research to assist me in decisions when possible (yes, I am a dork). And, from what I have read, crash statistics here in the US show that the backseat is the safest spot for any passenger, whether it is a child RF or FF in a carseat, a child FF in a booster, or an adult in the seatbelt, no matter the status of airbags. In fact, I try to ride in the backseat in between my 2 RF kiddos whenever my husband drives. The data I've seen supports the practice that if there is enough space in the backseat, then only the driver should be in the front seat.

So while I get what you are saying regarding the absence of an airbag (as there would be no airbag to deploy into a RF seat) it seems that actual US crash data still shows that the backseat is the safest place for any passenger. It isn't a matter of a carseat being in the front seat; it is a matter of anyone being in the front seat and how accidents happen. It is my understanding that statistically in the US, it is the front end of the car that is more likely to be involved in an accident, therefore making those passengers in the backseat further away from the site of impact. So the passengers are less likely to be injured/killed by virtue of their placement in the car based on the greater likelihood of frontal and frontal offset crashes (I read that they make up about 70% of accidents here in the US versus other types of accidents). There is also data collected by FARS here in the US and I just ran a report on deaths by seating position in 2007, and it shows in terms of sheer numbers that all backseat deaths (2nd, 3rd, and 4th rows) still don't even add up to all deaths of just front passengers, nevermind the driver deaths.

Now, maybe you are saying that since we know RF is safer in and of itself that because the child is RF, it okay for them to be in a non-airbag front seat position? I still think based on crash data in the US showing that frontal crashes are most common, I would want my kids in the backseat.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong (and I know you will
), but from the info that I have read that is what the data on US crashes have shown. So it is from this statistical data that here in the US the backseat is recommended for children.
 
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