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Let me preface this by saying that all four of my brothers are intact, with no problems ever. Same with my dad, his brothers, their sons, dad's dad, etc. All intact.<br><br>
My sister had a son 3.5 years ago and she circ'd him, mainly because my BIL wanted it, but she seemed to believe all the garbage about it being healthier, cleaner, etc. It is so frustrating to me because she grew up around the natural penis and knows it doesn't cause any of the problems circ supposedly prevents! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> I mean, she's the oldest, so she changed more diapers than I ever did. Surely she noticed that my brothers all had foreskins.<br><br>
Well, I got an email from my mom today asking if I had talked to my sister lately because they have "an announcement" to make. That, of course, means my sister is pg. I've become a fervent intactivist since she had my nephew (didn't really know much before that) and in the one conversation I had (via email on our family list) about circ, her dh compared me to Hitler for forcing my ideas on other people by helping to end Medicaid funding of circ in my state. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> This is the same man who forces <i>his</i> ideas of what a penis should be by strapping down his infant son and cutting off part of his penis (and I said so). My sister (the peacemaker) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> piped in saying families are made up of people who might not otherwise be friends and that she didn't understand why anyone would care if she circ'd her son or not. She obviously didn't even read what I had said because I explained why.<br><br>
Aaaagh! Now they're having another baby and if it's a boy they're going to mutilate him, too. I doubt they'd even listen to me about pain relief. I haven't been able to think well of her since the Hitler incident and I can't even be excited for them about their new baby because of what they'll do to him if they have another son. They live 2,000 miles away, so we don't talk much anyway....<br><br>
How do you deal with siblings who circ? It's driving me INSANE! At least I don't have to worry about any of my brothers circing their sons. Don't have to worry on dh's side, either (his bro. is intact and I've talked at length with his sister <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">).
 

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Well, I guess I'm part of your "Hitler squad" because I'm also in Utah and also campaigned to end Medicaid funding of circumcision! So you're not alone!! (That's what's so great about MDC--you're never alone!!)<br><br>
And I'm facing a similar situation. My bro and SIL are expecting a boy--they currently have two girls. And so far they have brushed off the articles I have given them. Guess what they're getting for the shower? A couple of outfits and <i>What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision</i> !! I'm afraid they are going to circ, and it will seriously affect my relationship with them. I'll just never view them in the same light again, kwim?<br><br>
It's different with my 14 year-old nephew, because I can reason that his parents didn't know any better at the time. But with this nephew, they have the information because I'm giving it to them!! It's just so frustrating. I feel your pain.<br><br>
On the bright side, I've convinced three or four people to leave their sons intact. Every one counts! So I try to stay positive, but it is hard.
 

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Thankfully, I haven't had to face this. My only sibling, my brother, didn't marry the first time until he was 46 years old and his wife already has three children. They have no plans to have children. However, everybody else in my life gets the information and if they decide to circumcise, they are permanently out of my life with no misunderstanding as to why. I don't know what I would do if it were a sibling but I have little doubt it would have an effect on our relationship.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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I think about this all the time! My sister is engaged to be married, and they don't even have wedding plans yet, but I'm already worried about her having a boy (they definitely want kids)! Despite being an RN, she is very pro-circumcision. During her training, she worked in a hospice and claimed the intact men there had infections. It just makes me sick that she will circumcise because of some terminally ill and/or elderly men who probably could not take care of themselves properly (shouldn't the nurses be washing under their foreskins?). Anyway, I have to wonder if she actually witnessed these infections or if it was myth passed down from nurse to nurse.<br><br>
If and when she gets pregnant and I will be giving her the Fleiss book. It's all I can do. She has already heard why we left Matthew intact and it didn't make an impact. I am so worried about something that hasn't happened yet! Well, maybe they will have only girls!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>house elf</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It just makes me sick that she will circumcise because of some terminally ill and/or elderly men who probably could not take care of themselves properly (shouldn't the nurses be washing under their foreskins?). Anyway, I have to wonder if she actually witnessed these infections or if it was myth passed down from nurse to nurse.</div>
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This is a bit <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/oops.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="oops">T , but I think that this is largely a myth.<br><br>
I worked for 5 years with severely learning disabled adults. They needed help with every aspect of their lives, including personal hygiene/taking a shower/etc.<br><br>
One of the adults was male, and he was intact. He never had ANY problems with his penis and no one EVER touched his penis (he never even touched it, that I ever saw). All it ever had in the way of cleaning was water on it when he took a shower or a bath. And he never had a problem - no infections, no smell, nothing.<br><br>
As to your original quesiton, Veritaserum - I don't know. My brother and his fiance (soon to be wife) are planning to TTC as soon as they get married (this summer). We're going to the wedding, and I'm planning on changing a lot of diapers in front of my future SIL, so hopefully the issue of circumcision (and why ds is intact) will come up. If it doesn't, I'll find a way to bring it up and make sure they have all of the necessary information.<br><br>
Not sure how you handle it, though, if a family member still decides to circ. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I'm hoping not to have to find out.<br><br>
In your case, if it ever came up again, I'd probably just say that I felt that circumcision was a violation of a baby's human rights (how would they feel if someone else decided to cut off part of their body without their consent? Why is it any different just because they baby can't stand up for himself?), and leave it at that.<br><br>
I understand your feelings - I have a good friend who is pregnant, and I think she will probably circ (she knows how I feel and has told me NOT to send the Fleiss book <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> ). I struggle with my feelings about this all the time.<br><br>
To be honest, I'm just praying she has a girl.
 

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I haven't had to deal with this either - but I've worried about it. I'm an only child and my DH has two sisters - both of whom only have girls. I know that if my SIL with 1 girl had had a boy she would have circ'd. And frankly - I was a little relieved when the ultrasound said 'girl'. My other SIL has 3 girls and has made it clear that she is done.<br><br>
I do have a very close friend who's pg now, and this bothers me tremendously. (She thinks she's having a boy.) We share *very* different views of parenting, and we've worked through that - but this might draw the line. I've always been anti-circ, but having my own son has made me a little militant about it.
 

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I went through this with my sister who lives about 1500 miles away. When she was pregnant with her last child (after having 2 girls), they found out it was a boy. I gently emailed her some info and when I got no reply I wrote out another gentle, thoughtful letter and included some articles (including Fleiss'). At the end I begged her that if she insisted on doing it, to be present & demand a ring block for pain relief. Again...no response from her. I worried.<br><br>
She had the baby & my parents went out to visit. After they returned I asked my mom if they did it and my mom said "yes". Broke my heart into a million pieces. I couldn't even speak to her for a while after finding that out. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for her and I can't get over it. We chat but very superficially. It's something I can't believe she did after reading what I gave her.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shake.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shake"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/disappointed.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="disappointed">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Veritaserum</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...How do you deal with siblings who circ? ...</div>
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My husband's oldest brother was killed in an accident 15 years ago. That forever changed the way I looked at siblings.<br><br>
My husband's younger brother is a very different parent than I am. Even harder for me than circ'ing is that he spanks his children. But by forcing myself to stay present in my relationship with him, I've learned a lot. And so has he.<br><br>
Additionally, the fact is that I would have <i>no</i> influence on my nephews if I didn't stay close to their parents. But because I have stayed close with their parents, my nephews get to see what a gentle discipline, liberal, non-Christian household is like. And my son gets to see what a conservative, corporal punishment, Christian houshold is like.<br><br>
The bottom line, for me, is that we do both parent with love and we do both believe we are doing the best for our children but we've come to such different conclusions about what that means. I think it's good for our children to be exposed to the differences and to see that we do the often difficult work of getting past them to love each other and stay a family.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pugmadmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My husband's oldest brother was killed in an accident 15 years ago. That forever changed the way I looked at siblings.</div>
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I can totally understand what you're saying, but this is such a huge issue for me. It is abuse, plain and simple, in my eyes and I can't sit idly by and do nothing to prevent my well-meaning sister from harming her child.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pugmadmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And my son gets to see what a conservative, corporal punishment, Christian houshold is like.</div>
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Please don't think all Christian households are like that! Our home is Christian and we don't spank. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Personally, I think if Christ were a parent, he'd be totally AP. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pugmadmama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think it's good for our children to be exposed to the differences and to see that we do the often difficult work of getting past them to love each other and stay a family.</div>
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But I can't get past my sister mutilating her children's genitals. SHE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Since she got married it feels like I lost my sister. I strongly believe that if she had married a gentler man who is more open to change (like my dh) she wouldn't have circ'd or spanked or CIO or any of the other things that I don't think treat children with love and respect. *sigh*<br><br>
I also don't want my children exposed to the horrors of circumcision within their own family. Circumcision is wrong. There's no question about that. How on earth can I or my children think well of familiy members who treat their newborns with such brutality?<br><br>
Dh said I should try to talk to my sister alone and get a feel for what she personally thinks about circ. If she's against it and is just going along with her dh there's a better possibility that I can share info and give her support to stand up for her baby. If she's for it <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> maybe I can at least get her to be there and require pain relief. BIL can't know that I talked to her at all though, because knowing him he'd rather his son suffer than take advise about pain relief from me.<br><br>
It still makes me sick.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Veritaserum</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...Please don't think all Christian households are like that! Our home is Christian and we don't spank. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Personally, I think if Christ were a parent, he'd be totally AP. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> ....</div>
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I don't think that all Christian households are like that...I'm sorry if I gave that impression! And while I'm not a Christian, I agree that Jesus would not spank!<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Veritaserum</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I can totally understand what you're saying, but this is such a huge issue for me. It is abuse, plain and simple, in my eyes and I can't sit idly by and do nothing to prevent my well-meaning sister from harming her child...</div>
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I'm not saying you should sit idly by! By all means, share as much information with her as she is willing to accept. But at a certain point, it's out of your hands.<br><br>
It can be so frustrating when we know better, but people still behave in ways that disappoint or even shock us. I cir'ed my son 12 years ago and I so regret it. I wish I'd never done that to him. I shared that with my BIL and they still cir'ed. It's hard to accept.<br><br>
I think that sometimes people "disown" or distance themselves from adult family members because it is <i>something</i> they can in a very powerless situation. You can't <i>prevent</i> your sister from cir'ing, but you can <i>punish</i> her by withdrawing from the relationship. And I don't mean that in a snarky way <i>at all</i>. I mean it will full empathy of how frustrating it is to not be able to do <i>anything</i> to prevent a child you care about from being hurt.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Veritaserum</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...I also don't want my children exposed to the horrors of circumcision within their own family. Circumcision is wrong. There's no question about that. How on earth can I or my children think well of familiy members who treat their newborns with such brutality?...</div>
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I am in no way minimizing circumcision, but it is a one time event (when it goes okay). I know it has a life-time impact on the child, but as far as the parents go, it's a decision you make once and it can't be undone. I cir'ed my son but I never hit, spank or physically harmed him. If I raise my voice at him once a month, that's a lot for me. In otherwords, I think it's possible to cir and still be a loving parent because cir'ing typically happens in the first week of a child's life and that leaves 18 more years of parenting. (Again, I'm not pro-circ! Not at all!)<br><br>
Honestly, in my experience, children don't see it as "horrors". My son is 12, but he understands that his Dad and I made a mistake by having an unnessicary surgery on his penis. You can explain their cousins that way to your kids. Tell them the truth...that their parents were going on out-dated information and you <i>don't</i> agree with but you're still family.<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Veritaserum</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...But I can't get past my sister mutilating her children's genitals. SHE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Since she got married it feels like I lost my sister. I strongly believe that if she had married a gentler man who is more open to change (like my dh) she wouldn't have circ'd or spanked or CIO or any of the other things that I don't think treat children with love and respect. *sigh*...</div>
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It's up to you, you know yourself and your sister best. But I really wonder if withdrawing from this family is the best for you and for her? It sounds like she and her children would <i>really</i> benefit from a close relationship with a family as gentle and loving as yours. And, believe it or not, you could benefit from it too. I love my cir'ed nephews just as much as my intact one. I'm so glad I'm in really their lives and don't just see them at holidays! The only way (that I know of) to have the kind of access to a child that you need to make a difference in their lives is to forge a close relationship with the parents.<br><br>
Good luck to you.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Veritaserum</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">How do you deal with siblings who circ?</div>
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My sister was going to circ her boys and I was so angry at her. I really don't know how I would have dealth with the situation. We aren't close to begin with, so I'm not sure it would have made much difference. The only reason she didn't, that I've been able to find out about, anyway, is that it's no longer covered by health care.<br><br>
I was so relieved that, whatever the reason, her little boys were going to be left alone. Awhile ago the subject somehow came up and it seems her dh is seriously regretting the decision to leave them alone and is actually considering taking them to have it done. I don't know what will happen with this, I think she's against it now, just because they aren't babies any more (4 and 2 1/2), but she never seems to stand up to him about anything important. I think if he had it done and she let him, I wouldn't be able to talk to either of them again. Not that I talk to them more than a dozen times a year, if that, so they probably wouldn't even notice.<br><br>
I'm pretty sure one of my friends had her first ds circumcised, but I don't know about her second. Honestly, I'm afraid to ask. We agree on a lot of things to do with parenting, but definitely not on this issue. It's possible she wound up not doing it because they'd have to pay for it, but I really don't know.
 

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My brother is circ'd. His son is circ'd. I am terrified that they will have another boy.<br><br>
It's such a shame. It should be a moment of excitement and happiness when a pregnancy is announced, but instead I have to be terrified and sick to my stomach about this.<br><br>
On the one hand, how can I cut myself off from my only brother? On the other hand, how can I talk to someone who has mutilated a baby's genitals?
 
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